Debit Card Fruad

Poured my morning cup of coffee, lit up a cigarette and logged on to my email.
Message from BOA freezing my account due to irregular activity.
Logged on to BOA to check my account and low & behold someone got hold of my Visa number and charged
895.00 Euros at Apple-Store Luxemburg and another attempted charge of 565.00 at the MuseumInn in Austria.
Not quite the end of the world as Visa & BOA froze my account and I am not responsible for any charges.
Just a pain in the ass. Now I have to wait 5 days for a new card, change all my direct withdrawl for auto pay bills.
and wait for the charges to post on my account (24-48hrs) before I am reimbursed.
Fucking lowlife piece of shit's ! :smiley7:

That sucks major ass Paddy. Any idea how they got the number?

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Originally Posted by ashauler

That sucks major ass Paddy. Any idea how they got the number?

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If I had to tak a wild guess ??????? Ordering cigarette's from the Ukraine.
As most of the tobacco vendors I use in Europe are above board, and use well know CC processors.
I trust the merchant in the Ukraine. I think the problem lies with the CC processor they use.

That really blows Paddy...sorry to hear that. :smiley6:

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Originally Posted by Paddy

If I had to tak a wild guess ??????? Ordering cigarette's from the Ukraine.
As most of the tobacco vendors I use in Europe are above board, and use well know CC processors.
I trust the merchant in the Ukraine. I think the problem lies with the CC processor they use.

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That sucks. :smiley7:

I have had 2 fraudulent charges on mine but the wife catches them fast.

Hey Jamie I got those Macbooks that we talked about, but I was unable to book us those 2 suites at the Museum Inn... do you still have your contact for staying at the castle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paddy

If I had to tak a wild guess ??????? Ordering cigarette's from the Ukraine.
As most of the tobacco vendors I use in Europe are above board, and use well know CC processors.
I trust the merchant in the Ukraine. I think the problem lies with the CC processor they use.

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I'd say there's a 99.9% chance you're right on the money. Eastern Europe is loaded with very highly educated IT folks that are also largely unemployed. They have been turning to other means of "employment". I've been chasing those ghosts around for quite some time. Some of the most incredibly "state of the art" malicious software has been originating there. Hackers groups in Eastern Europe actually totally shut down the entire financial sector of the country of Muldova just to prove a point.

I would suggest if you want to order cigarettes from the Ukraine - consider using a credit card that is only used for that purpose, not something you rely on. Something like a pre-paid Visa card or a very low balance credit card that can be easily shut down without affecting you like your checking account debit card. I have a $500 limit Mastercard I use for all of my online purchases (I have to keep telling them NOT to raise the limit), or I use a third party (PoopPal) so that I don't expose my information.

Also - as a heads up - The bank may just end up taking the loss (if they like you), but be cautioned that banks do not like taking losses... Your bank may be frowning on you making purchases like cigarettes or cigars in Eastern Europe. Kind of a two edged sword - one being that you're making purchases in a very high risk environment and also that you're purchasing tobacco products outside the US. They COULD (not that they will) refuse to reimburse you the losses. If they do reimburse, they will try to charge that back to the retailer that took the bogus credit card (who is likely going to object because they want their money). If that's true - and the bank eats it - they might not be so willing to do it next time.

Here's a link to some useful information (the best out there) in dealing with identity theives.

Federal Trade Commission - Identity Theft site

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by buzz

Hey Jamie I got those Macbooks that we talked about, but I was unable to book us those 2 suites at the Museum Inn... do you still have your contact for staying at the castle?

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Damn! that means paying for the chartered airplane is out as well... Bummer... :smiley6:

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Originally Posted by ggiese

Also - as a heads up - The bank may just end up taking the loss (if they like you), but be cautioned that banks do not like taking losses... Your bank may be frowning on you making purchases like cigarettes or cigars in Eastern Europe. Kind of a two edged sword - one being that you're making purchases in a very high risk environment and also that you're purchasing tobacco products outside the US. They COULD (not that they will) refuse to reimburse you the losses. If they do reimburse, they will try to charge that back to the retailer that took the bogus credit card (who is likely going to object because they want their money). If that's true - and the bank eats it - they might not be so willing to do it next time.

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:smiley50:

Make no mistake - your bank loves you. I've never heard of a bank willingly eat the losses on a transaction with a debit card. I've heard of customers fighting a suspicious charge and winning, but never in the manner you've described. Credit cards, however, reverse charges all the time. We never use the debit card online - ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggiese

I'd say there's a 99.9% chance you're right on the money. Eastern Europe is loaded with very highly educated IT folks that are also largely unemployed. They have been turning to other means of "employment". I've been chasing those ghosts around for quite some time. Some of the most incredibly "state of the art" malicious software has been originating there. Hackers groups in Eastern Europe actually totally shut down the entire financial sector of the country of Muldova just to prove a point.

I would suggest if you want to order cigarettes from the Ukraine - consider using a credit card that is only used for that purpose, not something you rely on. Something like a pre-paid Visa card or a very low balance credit card that can be easily shut down without affecting you like your checking account debit card. I have a $500 limit Mastercard I use for all of my online purchases (I have to keep telling them NOT to raise the limit), or I use a third party (PoopPal) so that I don't expose my information.

Also - as a heads up - The bank may just end up taking the loss (if they like you), but be cautioned that banks do not like taking losses... Your bank may be frowning on you making purchases like cigarettes or cigars in Eastern Europe. Kind of a two edged sword - one being that you're making purchases in a very high risk environment and also that you're purchasing tobacco products outside the US. They COULD (not that they will) refuse to reimburse you the losses. If they do reimburse, they will try to charge that back to the retailer that took the bogus credit card (who is likely going to object because they want their money). If that's true - and the bank eats it - they might not be so willing to do it next time.

Here's a link to some useful information (the best out there) in dealing with identity theives.

Federal Trade Commission - Identity Theft site

Good luck!

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Thanks for the heads up George. BOA has already told me that they will cover the false charges. I have been an acount holder for many years with no issue.
As far as ordering in the future, That too was my next move. I plan on opening a second checking account with a visa debit to use only for oversea's purchses. I will only deposit enough to cover the purchase plus $25.00 to leave in the account to keep it open. Or just maybe I should stop smoking cigarettes. It's easy to justify the cost at $16.00 a carton from Eastern Europe as opposed to $75.00 here in Massachusetts. Its a filthy habit I have tried in vain to brake with no luck. Maybe this is a sign :smiley2:

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Originally Posted by mrtr33

:smiley50:

Make no mistake - your bank loves you. I've never heard of a bank willingly eat the losses on a transaction with a debit card. I've heard of customers fighting a suspicious charge and winning, but never in the manner you've described. Credit cards, however, reverse charges all the time. We never use the debit card online - ever.

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I thought that was the point of having Visa attached to debit cards, you are allotted the same protection as a CC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggiese

I'd say there's a 99.9% chance you're right on the money. Eastern Europe is loaded with very highly educated IT folks that are also largely unemployed. They have been turning to other means of "employment". I've been chasing those ghosts around for quite some time. Some of the most incredibly "state of the art" malicious software has been originating there. Hackers groups in Eastern Europe actually totally shut down the entire financial sector of the country of Muldova just to prove a point.

I would suggest if you want to order cigarettes from the Ukraine - consider using a credit card that is only used for that purpose, not something you rely on. Something like a pre-paid Visa card or a very low balance credit card that can be easily shut down without affecting you like your checking account debit card. I have a $500 limit Mastercard I use for all of my online purchases (I have to keep telling them NOT to raise the limit), or I use a third party (PoopPal) so that I don't expose my information.

Also - as a heads up - The bank may just end up taking the loss (if they like you), but be cautioned that banks do not like taking losses... Your bank may be frowning on you making purchases like cigarettes or cigars in Eastern Europe. Kind of a two edged sword - one being that you're making purchases in a very high risk environment and also that you're purchasing tobacco products outside the US. They COULD (not that they will) refuse to reimburse you the losses. If they do reimburse, they will try to charge that back to the retailer that took the bogus credit card (who is likely going to object because they want their money). If that's true - and the bank eats it - they might not be so willing to do it next time.

Here's a link to some useful information (the best out there) in dealing with identity theives.

Federal Trade Commission - Identity Theft site

Good luck!

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The CC processer the cigarette company uses is one of the smaller ones that ONLY takes VISA. I tried my Amex with no luck.I have seen this on a number of Eastern European sites, VISA ONLY. No Amex or Mastercard.

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Originally Posted by buzz

Hey Jamie I got those Macbooks that we talked about, but I was unable to book us those 2 suites at the Museum Inn... do you still have your contact for staying at the castle?

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Yep.....the castle was arranged months ago, slipped right through. :smiley2:

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Originally Posted by ashauler

Yep.....the castle was arranged months ago, slipped right through. :smiley2:

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Bastards !

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Originally Posted by Paddy

I thought that was the point of having Visa attached to debit cards, you are allotted the same protection as a CC.

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Visa is just the "conduit" for the transactions on behalf of the bank. Any policies around reimbursing losses are actually tied to the bank itself, not Visa. While it seems the reversal of charges is "automatic", in reality it's not as automatic as it might seem. In the past, many banks would "write off" the charges. Not so much any more. And the retailers were most often willing to "write off" their losses when the banks kicked it back to them. Not so much any more. Increasingly both banks and retailers are pushing back on writing off bad charges. If there able to establish ANY connection to what the customer is doing to the loss of the credit card data - the bank/retailer is going to place the blame squarely on the customer. Think of it this way - if you leave your car keys in the ignition of your car unattended - would GM willingly reimburse you for the theft of your vehicle? ...or the insurance company?

If you KNOW (or "should have known") the credit card transaction was going to be risky - the bank is likely going to hold you responsible for the charges. The ONLY thing that might save you is a long tenured relationship with the bank because they may not want to lose your business. But - be forewarned - they may likely not want to accomodate you more than once or twice....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggiese

Visa is just the "conduit" for the transactions on behalf of the bank. Any policies around reimbursing losses are actually tied to the bank itself, not Visa. While it seems the reversal of charges is "automatic", in reality it's not as automatic as it might seem. In the past, many banks would "write off" the charges. Not so much any more. And the retailers were most often willing to "write off" their losses when the banks kicked it back to them. Not so much any more. Increasingly both banks and retailers are pushing back on writing off bad charges. If there able to establish ANY connection to what the customer is doing to the loss of the credit card data - the bank/retailer is going to place the blame squarely on the customer. Think of it this way - if you leave your car keys in the ignition of your car unattended - would GM willingly reimburse you for the theft of your vehicle? ...or the insurance company?

If you KNOW (or "should have known") the credit card transaction was going to be risky - the bank is likely going to hold you responsible for the charges. The ONLY thing that might save you is a long tenured relationship with the bank because they may not want to lose your business. But - be forewarned - they may likely not want to accomodate you more than once or twice....

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So, Maybe I should open a small Visa Credit card account?
I have tried very hard not to use credit cards. I carry an American Express that I only use when we are oversea's on vacation. My day to day transacton are conducted via Visa/debit. I thought I was being fiscally responsible by not racking up CC debt. I could only spend what was in my checking account. I made a point of tossing every pre-approved card offer that came to me away in the fire-place.

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Originally Posted by Paddy

So, Maybe I should open a small Visa Credit card account?
I have tried very hard not to use credit cards. I carry an American Express that I only use when we are oversea's on vacation. My day to day transacton are conducted via Visa/debit. I thought I was being fiscally responsible by not racking up CC debt. I could only spend what was in my checking account. I made a point of tossing every pre-approved card offer that came to me away in the fire-place.

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Actually, demonstrating that you are responsible with revolving debt is better for your credit score.

Well, Lesson learned.
I will change my practices going forward.
I did call BOA one more time just to make sure there was NO misunderstanding about
what they are going to do. They assured me that thier products (credit/debit) cards are covered by a
ZERO-Fraud liabilty plan and I would be compansated for my losses.
But, as George pointed out to me...I will not push my luck :smiley2:

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Originally Posted by badwhale

Actually, demonstrating that you are responsible with revolving debt is better for your credit score.

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How the fuck am I supposed to do that? When there is a new L.E. coming out every other week :smiley3:

I use Amex for the most part on line. At Christmas time I ordered a movie that wasn't coming out until February. I got it off of Amazon. Two months later Amex calls me and asks me if I bought something for $500.00 recently and had it applied to he card. I said no so they said your card has been compromised so we will have to send you a new one. They also said read your statement really good and let us know if there is anything else on it you didn't buy. This was for dog food in New Zealand. I was pretty pleased that Amex caught it before I was even sent the bill. I just decided for on line stuff I going to use pay pal credit card. That appears to be pretty safe. What do you think GG?

I suggest you buy your cigarettes in New Hampshire. I don't know about Ukrainian smokes but I've smoked cigarettes from the former Soviet Union and they suck.

Doc

That sucks paddy

I had a visa gift card with a few cents on it so for fun i chunked it out in the walmart parking lot

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Originally Posted by cinda

I use Amex for the most part on line. At Christmas time I ordered a movie that wasn't coming out until February. I got it off of Amazon. Two months later Amex calls me and asks me if I bought something for $500.00 recently and had it applied to he card. I said no so they said your card has been compromised so we will have to send you a new one. They also said read your statement really good and let us know if there is anything else on it you didn't buy. This was for dog food in New Zealand. I was pretty pleased that Amex caught it before I was even sent the bill. I just decided for on line stuff I going to use pay pal credit card. That appears to be pretty safe. What do you think GG?

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Aside from their quirkiness, PoopPal is a decent way to protect your credit card info during online purchases. However - if your computer is compromised by malicious software, it is possible your PoopPal login credentials could be compromised and the bad guys could have access to valid credit card info through your account.

Well,
I think Doc is right. After going threw my statement the only place I have used my card abroad (besides the Ukraine cig's) are as follows.
Davidoff London
Peterson Pipe _ Germany
Dan Pipe - Germany
All well know and established vendors. in fact I never pushed my card threw a proccess server.
I call the companies direct to place orders.
I will open a CC account with BOA for future orders ( alot of compaines do not take Amex) I would guess half the tobacco stores I uses online do not take it. I pretty much just charge hotels & airfare with it.
Hopefully BOA will honor my request for a LOW balance card ($500.00) Last time I tried a few years ago the would only offer me a card with a very high line of credit. Saying the FICO score dictates what card you recieve.
I DO NOT want a $10,000 line. It's to tempting to get over my head with cigars. At least with the AMEX I have control do to the fact I have to pay the entire bill when due.
OR !!!!!! Maybe I should stop smoking cigarette's.
Oh, DOC. The Cigarette's I smoke are not Soviet brands, just sold out of the Ukraine.
I smoke PINE Menthols made in South Korea or Polo Menthol made in Poland.

Just a quick update.
As of this morning BoA has refunded all monies that were stolen back into my checking account.
I'm very suprised how easy this was to correct. BoA did a stand-up job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Devil Doc

I suggest you buy your cigarettes in New Hampshire. I don't know about Ukrainian smokes but I've smoked cigarettes from the former Soviet Union and they suck.

Doc

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Before I quit smoking cigarettes the best I had were from Ukraine, very cheap too.

Who here smokes cigarettes and cigars? Dangerous combo as you can accidentally inhale a cigar :P

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Originally Posted by Zywiec

Before I quit smoking cigarettes the best I had were from Ukraine, very cheap too.

Who here smokes cigarettes and cigars? Dangerous combo as you can accidentally inhale a cigar :P

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Oh really. I can tell you from experience, a carton of Marlboro will get you anything you want, any where in the world. You can't say that about Ukrainian cigarettes, I'll bet.

Doc.