Starting Construction

**DeeDubya** · 04-14-2009, 05:01 PM

I've begun construction on a walk-in humidor. It is 20'L x 6'Wx 9'H for a total of 1080 CuFt. One wall adjoins a game room and will have 2 large windows so that it is totally visible from the game room. I will be keeping some other items on display as well as cigars. I've lined the exterior walls with poly plastic and insulated with R19. There is lot left to do but I am starting to search for a commercial humidifier and reverse osmosis water supply. I have found these but am open to suggestions. I will update this thread regularly. Any input at all is most appreciated. I will not be offended by constructive criticism. I'll get some pics as I start to trim out the interior.

http://www.aristocrathumidors.com/electronic.htm

**Irish79** · 04-14-2009, 05:34 PM

Sweet idea. And thanks for allowing us to watch your progress. I subscribed to this thread and can't wait to see how it turns out. Maybe someday I can follow suit.

**golfermd** · 04-14-2009, 07:13 PM

Criticism!? You've got to be kidding. We are so jealous and envious of you. Please update with pics!!

**logan37** · 04-14-2009, 08:57 PM

Awesome DW!! Good luck with your venture.

**badwhale** · 04-14-2009, 09:19 PM

Holy awesome. 20'x6'x9'? I'd suggest putting a cot in the middle, and you can just sleep there.

Will

**DeeDubya** · 04-15-2009, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by badwhale

Holy awesome. 20'x6'x9'? I'd suggest putting a cot in the middle, and you can just sleep there.

Will

Well that's framed size. By the time the walls are finished and shelves are installed down one side the width will shrink to around 4'. That's just enough to comfortably move around and pass another person. Fortunately we have a wholesale cedar supply about 20 minutes out so I can get most any kind of siding for the walls and have custom milled boards for shelves etc. This of course is "red cedar" not the aromatic closet variety.

I intend to keep the majority of the cigars in the box and closed. This is intended for bulk storage but I would still be able to get to a box without having to dig like I do now. I still have my regular humidor for singles and display.

This is also for display of some small antiques that can/should be kept at 65-70% RH. That's why I really need to evaluate the humidifier. I know that I cannot use the misting or steam type. These cause moisture fallout (like fog) that can condense on things. There are several technologies including the "wet brick" type that I am still checking into.

1) Wall detail 2) Basic floor plan

**DeeDubya** · 04-23-2009, 04:02 PM

I picked up the 32" insulated metal door today and hope to get it set this weekend. Also, I searched for cedar paneling but came up zilch. Most available spanish cedar is in small sizes for small projects (like humidors). I need 4x8 sheets and will probably have to settle for red cedar. It does not have quite the absorbtion capacity as spanish but will do just fine since there will be around 144 sq ft on the shelf-side wall alone. If anyone knows a source for large quantities of spanish cedar I would much appreciate the help. I found this site during some of my searches.

http://www.humidor-guide.com/humidor...cedar-1-1.php3

I'm making an extra effort to be sure this room is well sealed. I'm hoping that being well insulated and having so much glass adjoing the living space it will maintain a reasonable temperature without additional A/C in the summer months. If not, the humidifier will be battling the A/C which is of course de-humidifing.

**ashauler** · 04-24-2009, 07:49 AM

From craigs post on Old-school humidors:
http://www.jcpendergast.com/Walkin.aspx

**DeeDubya** · 04-27-2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by ashauler

From craigs post on Old-school humidors:
http://www.jcpendergast.com/Walkin.aspx

Thanks, It looks like they do some pretty nice projects. I haven't called them yet but my guess is that those plywood panels are Western Red Cedar and not Spanish cedar. I found some this weekend and bought 5 sheets of 3/8". This was from a wholesaler for $60/sheet. Cedar is a little hard to work with because of "cupping". It is so hygroscopic (a good thing) that it wants to curl one direction when damp and the other when dry. The plywood will nail down but the 12"w shelves need to stay straight.

I'm looking at doing the floor in cedar too. There is no cedar flooring because it's too soft but I think 1" T&G siding will do nicely when nailed to a 3/4" subfloor.

Hopefully I will have so much cedar in there when finished that a beetle won't have a chance.

**DeeDubya** · 04-30-2009, 09:37 AM

Hopefully I've found a better choice for a humidifier. This unit is less expensive, will not require the osmosis system and maintain up to 3000 cu ft. My humidor has approx 600 cu ft so this thing should just loaf. I've got a water softener so the normal calcium build-up should not be a problem.

"The Trion 707U Humidifier System incorporates all the features necessary to properly humidify a large area in a simple Do-It-Yourself kit. This system is designed to connect directly to a water source, will automatically refill, and a single unit can maintain up to 75-80% relative humidity in an area as large as 3000 cubic feet. The 707U is a hard wire system and will require access to electricity. To provide a measurement and reading of the exact humidity, a separate hygrometer gauge is needed."

**drew_goring** · 05-01-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by DeeDubya

Hopefully I've found a better choice for a humidifier. This unit is less expensive, will not require the osmosis system and maintain up to 3000 cu ft. My humidor has approx 600 cu ft so this thing should just loaf. I've got a water softener so the normal calcium build-up should not be a problem.

"The Trion 707U Humidifier System incorporates all the features necessary to properly humidify a large area in a simple Do-It-Yourself kit. This system is designed to connect directly to a water source, will automatically refill, and a single unit can maintain up to 75-80% relative humidity in an area as large as 3000 cubic feet. The 707U is a hard wire system and will require access to electricity. To provide a measurement and reading of the exact humidity, a separate hygrometer gauge is needed."

Doesn't sound like that one is an active humidifier. Might be a decent investment to get an active one so you know your sticks will be kept safe and you won't have to keep adjusting the humidifier.

**Humidor Minister** · 05-01-2009, 04:36 PM

I tried using RO water and had a mold problem. IMHO you really should use distilled water. I'm sure you have a lot of cigars at stake. It could save you from a really bad day some day.
Good luck thoug.Sounds like it'll be an awesome set up.

**EGQ** · 05-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by DeeDubya

Hopefully I've found a better choice for a humidifier. This unit is less expensive, will not require the osmosis system and maintain up to 3000 cu ft. My humidor has approx 600 cu ft so this thing should just loaf. I've got a water softener so the normal calcium build-up should not be a problem.

"The Trion 707U Humidifier System incorporates all the features necessary to properly humidify a large area in a simple Do-It-Yourself kit. This system is designed to connect directly to a water source, will automatically refill, and a single unit can maintain up to 75-80% relative humidity in an area as large as 3000 cubic feet. The 707U is a hard wire system and will require access to electricity. To provide a measurement and reading of the exact humidity, a separate hygrometer gauge is needed."

No space for 216 lbs of beads? Sounds like a fundamental design flaw...

**DeeDubya** · 05-03-2009, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by drew_goring

Doesn't sound like that one is an active humidifier. Might be a decent investment to get an active one so you know your sticks will be kept safe and you won't have to keep adjusting the humidifier.

I'm not sure what an active humidifier is. Is it the kind with the centrifugal wheel that spins off tiny droplets. I understand that they can cause a white dust to settle out of the air. There are several technologies available. Maybe the wick type would be best if I could find one with enough capacity. The wicks are replaceable, so when they build up with calcium they are tossed.

There is also the heated element type, wet brick, and ultrasonic. Do they make one with a "flux capacitor"?

**craig** · 05-03-2009, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Humidor Minister

I tried using RO water and had a mold problem. IMHO you really should use distilled water. I'm sure you have a lot of cigars at stake. It could save you from a really bad day some day.
Good luck thoug.Sounds like it'll be an awesome set up.

In a walk-in?

Sounds like your RO system was contaminated.

Originally Posted by EGQ

No space for 216 lbs of beads? Sounds like a fundamental design flaw...

Actually, beads can be used: http://www.fuji-silysia.co.jp/englis..._home_gel.html

However, it sounds like there is enough cedar going in to serve the beads' buffering function.

(As an aside, Fuji's Artsorb beads (beads with Lithium-Chloride) are repackaged and sold by at least one reputable bead vendor.)

Originally Posted by DeeDubya

I'm not sure what an active humidifier is. Is it the kind with the centrifugal wheel that spins off tiny droplets. I understand that they can cause a white dust to settle out of the air. There are several technologies available. Maybe the wick type would be best if I could find one with enough capacity. The wicks are replaceable, so when they build up with calcium they are tossed.

There is also the heated element type, wet brick, and ultrasonic. Do they make one with a "flux capacitor"?

Active humidifier: has a fan.
Passive humidifer: doesn't have a fan.

(more or less)

The big wheel kind is no different from a wick/pleated filter/wet brick - they're all "evaporative" - essentially just like a wet towel with a fan blowing on the towel. Advantage: cheap. Disadvantages: The towel eventually gums up with whatever junk is in the water (usually calcium) and you replace it. Bad stuff can grow on the towel. You also can't turn them off, you can just switch them from active (fan on) to passive (fan off). (This is why some Cigar Oases have flapper valves.)

The second kind atomizes the water, either with pressure (like a spray bottle), or by shaking the water (ultrasonic), or some other method. These are the kind that generate white dust (with tap water) because all the junk that is gumming up the towel in the first type gets dumped into the air with this type. Hence RO water filtration, etc. Advantages: more effective than the above type (gets more moisture into the air faster and with less noise for the same footprint). Turns off. Less maintenance. Disadvantages: needs clean water to avoid the white dust, and a fairly large air space (i.e., they won't work that well in a typical cabinet humidor).

The third kind heats the water to convert the water to steam. This kind (obviously) generates heat, so isn't used that much until you get into humidifying large areas (unless you want the heat - remember Vicks Vaporizers?). Advantages: Steam is clean (germ-wise), and a steam humidifier is the most efficient. Disadvantage: highest initial cost. Probably can't be used for your application, although Honeywell does have some that might work.

Regardless of type, the important things are to: move the humidity (i.e., air) around - even when the humidifier is "off" (which is why Oust fans are so useful in Vinotemps, etc.); use a good humidistat, located properly; and, because humidistats work on RH and not absolute humidity, control temperature fluctuations.

You're storing closed boxes, so you don't have to get too fancy IMHO. Noise is probably not a huge concern, either. Myself, I'd start simple, although you might as well put in the plumbing now. Good luck!

(My humidifier was bucket of water with an aquarium heater and air stones in it - but I suspect that you don't want to get that simple

)

**DeeDubya** · 05-04-2009, 07:47 AM

Craig,

That's some good information. Thanks for taking the time to help. Let me get a little further along with the project. I will have a "lot" of cedar in there for good RH buffering. I'll post some pics later today of current progress.

**DeeDubya** · 05-04-2009, 12:18 PM

I made a little progress between cigar breaks on Saturday. This is a pic from within showing the fixed shelves for full box storage. The slanted shelves for display will be to the left.

Here is a shot from within the game room.

My photo album has a few more progression pics.

**mrtr33** · 05-04-2009, 03:46 PM

This looks like a really cool project.

Quick question you may have answered, but I missed: how will the windows looking into the walk-in affect keeping the rh balanced? Are the windows weather-proofed?

Thanks for the pics. Looks like it's going to be a nice setup.

**DeeDubya** · 05-04-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by mrtr33

This looks like a really cool project.

Quick question you may have answered, but I missed: how will the windows looking into the walk-in affect keeping the rh balanced? Are the windows weather-proofed?

Thanks for the pics. Looks like it's going to be a nice setup.

This was an exterior wall. The windows are well sealed. I've considered everything to make sure it is well sealed and insulated. The humidifier might not have to be as large as I once thought.

Thanks for the interest, it is a fun project.

**craig** · 05-04-2009, 06:27 PM

Now that's a lot of wood!

Ambient RH looks pretty good. (I could only find Austin RH data on-line http://www.txstate.edu/freemanranch/...limatology.pdf , as I can't access NOAA's detailed data because I'm not in the US.) Once your door is in, you can probably season the wood in the room by just opening that outside window at night!

What's your in-house RH like? I'm guessing that will drive how big a humidifier you will need.

I am assuming that there is no air exchange other than the door opening/closing, you are not planning on smoking in there (?), and your cooling is from the house interior via those big windows. You may have to point an oscillating fan (from inside the humidor) at the windows to reduce the windows' insulating efficiency and prevent condensation forming on the windows. Or maybe not, I'm just guessing from looking at the pics. (Glass is not a good insulator, but the thin layer of dead air up against the glass is. That's why double-glazed windows work.)

I'd be tempted to start with something like this one, which maxes at 65%RH: http://www.kaz.com/kaz/store/product...a8b4afac8ee4d/ (Honeywell HCM-6012I) The price of consumer units is so low compared to meant-for-cigars units ...

You can always plumb in an RO system somewhere where you can use it as a source of drinking/cooking water as well, and then later modify the reservoir for constant refilling.

Anyhow, just a suggestion. No doubt Bob Staebell can set you up with what you need without a lot of guessing/extra work/experimentation/etc. A lot of times it is worth the extra cost to pay for the "voice of experience."

Good luck!