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Thread: Gun Owning Smokers

  1. #141
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    The M44's finish was looking pretty rough and I needed something to do during my spring break, so I decided to refinish it and add a scope. I ordered the scope and mount kit last week and started sanding Friday night. The scope is a Simmons Prohunter 4x. The mount is from S&K, very sturdy. For the finish I used a spar urethane.
    Before I started


    Disassembled


    Beat up original finish.



    Sanded


    First coat


    Finished

  2. #142
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    Nice job on the rifle refurbish. I think it looks much better with the new optics. Now, what are you going to do with that pea shooter?

  3. #143
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    Default Open Carry... at Starbucks?

    I'm not sure about the need for open carry. There may be a few instances when it makes sense, but by and large, we can get by with lawful conceased carry. Does this make sense in urban settings? If I recall my "wild west" history, didn't towns have laws requiring individuals to check their guns at the city gates?

    Here's a WSJ article from 03/04/10. Dow Jones owns the copy and the rights.

    Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire
    By VANESSA O'CONNELL And JULIE JARGON

    Starbucks Corp. and some other chain stores in the U.S. are finding themselves caught in the middle of a firearms debate, as gun-control advocates go up against a burgeoning campaign by gun owners to carry holstered pistols in public places.

    The "open carry" movement, in which gun owners carry unconcealed handguns as they go about their everyday business, is loosely organized around the country but has been gaining traction in recent months. Gun-control advocates have been pushing to quash the movement, including by petitioning the Starbucks coffee chain to ban guns on its premises.

    Anti-gun activists gathered at the original Starbucks in Seattle to push retailers like the coffee chain to ban customers from openly carrying guns, WSJ's Nick Wingfield reports.

    Businesses have the final say on their property. But the ones that don't opt to ban guns—such as Starbucks—have become parade grounds of sorts for open-carry advocates.

    Starbucks on Wednesday, while bemoaning being thrust into the debate, defended its long-standing policy of complying with state open-carry weapons laws, in part by stating that its baristas, or "partners," could be harmed if the stores were to ban guns. The chain said that in the 43 states where open carry is legal, it has about 4,970 company-operated stores.

    The company added: "The political, policy and legal debates around these issues belong in the legislatures and courts, not in our stores."

    In 29 states, it's legal to openly carry a loaded handgun, without any form of government permission. Another 13 allow an unconcealed loaded handgun with a carry permit, according to opencarry.org, which is a loosely organized Web forum for the movement.

    In California, where it's legal to carry a gun openly without a license in most places as long as it's unloaded, growing numbers of armed people have been turning up at Starbucks, restaurants, and retailers, with handguns holstered to their belts to protest what they contend are unfair limits on permits to carry a concealed weapon.

    The open-carry movement began spreading in 2004 after some pro-gun advocates in Virginia began researching state laws and discovered that many states don't have laws to prevent unconcealed carry of handguns.

    "The concealed carry movement has been successful but open carry is coming up," in popularity, said Mike Stollenwerk, a retired Army lieutenant colonel and co-founder of the opencarry.org site.

    "I feel other people have the right to carry firearms into a business if it's okay with the business," said William Moore, a carpenter from Lynwood, Wash., and an open-carry advocate who says he doesn't carry firearms into Starbucks coffee shops.

    A group called Protest Easy Guns plans on Saturday to protest Starbucks's policy of allowing customers in open carry weapons states to carry guns inside the coffee shops. The group of women said on Thursday that it plans to demonstrate outside an Alexandria, Va., Starbucks.

    Supporters are spreading in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, and other areas. Some are making lists of "OC-friendly" locales, and encouraging boycotts of businesses with no-weapons signs. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Home Depot Inc., Best Buy Co. and Barnes & Noble Inc., are designated as "open-carry" friendly in some online forums or say they abide by existing laws. "Our practice is to comply with local and state laws," said Best Buy spokeswoman Sue Busch Nehring.

    Open-carry proponents are also taking advantage of some momentum in state legislatures to expand gun rights, although most new and pending measures don't specifically address unconcealed handguns.

    Should people be allowed to carry guns into places like Starbucks? The company says it'll abide by local laws, but customers in San Francisco tell Rex Crum they really don't relish handguns with their lattes.

    Open carry hasn't been part of the official focus of the pro-gun lobbying group, the National Rifle Association, which has 4 million members.

    In the past 20 years, the NRA has focused on expanding the ability of U.S. gun owners to carry a handgun in a concealed manner.

    Today, 38 states have a "shall issue" permit process. Two states don't require a license to conceal carry. Eight states have "may issue" concealed carry laws, meaning permits will be given with the discretion of a local politician or police officer.

    "We support the self-defense rights of law-abiding Americans in accordance with local, state and federal laws," says Andrew Arulanandam, an NRA spokesman, who declined further comment on open-carry activity.

    Some chains have banned guns from their restaurants, even in open-carry states, because of the impact it could have on non-gun-carrying customers.

    "We are concerned that the open display of firearms would be particularly disturbing to children and their parents," said a spokesperson for the California Pizza Kitchen restaurant chain.

    A Peet's Coffee & Tea spokesperson said that while the firm "respects and values all individuals' rights...our policy is not to allow customers carrying firearms in our stores or on our outdoor seating premises unless they are uniformed or identified law enforcement officers."

    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which partnered with Credo Action, an activist group that uses mobile phones to effect social change, says it has collected more than 28,000 signatures on a petition to get Starbucks to change its policy.

    Pro-gun advocates have taken to openly carrying guns to Starbucks as a way of testing corporations' stances on state weapons laws, William Spain reports.

    Allowing customers who are armed with unconcealed guns on the premises "can't be good for business—it galvanizes people, and some of them won't patronize Starbucks after this," said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, a gun-control organization in Washington, D.C.

    Indeed, not all baristas agree that the Starbucks policy protects them. "I think the policy shows complete disregard for the safety and sentiments of their workers. The only thing worse than a yuppie upset with how their frappuccino turned out is a yuppie with a gun who's unhappy with how their frappuccino turned out," says Erik Forman, a Starbucks barista and union member in Minneapolis.

    The IWW Starbucks Workers Union on Wednesday issued a statement, saying "We appreciate the vigorous debate taking place by principled individuals on both sides of this issue. However, to date we are not aware of any efforts by Starbucks to widely engage its workers who are directly affected by open-carry gun laws. We believe an appropriate solution cannot be reached without doing so."

    —Nick Wingfield and Jess Bravin contributed to this article

  4. #144
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    I believe in the right to open carry, but I would never practice it. Unfortunately, in today's world, open carry is only going to tarnish the image of the Second Amendment.

    Will
    The powers that be might take it all away
    Together we burn, together we burn away

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  5. #145
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    I agree. It's already tough enough with the anti-gun crowd. Concealed carry makes everyone more comfortable and removes the intimidation factor.

    Criminals, irresponsible people, and gun control propaganda are really wreaking havok on gun owners. Hell, my own wife doesn't even like the fact that I OWN guns anymore, much less want to carry them. She's been bombarded by anti-gun propaganda based on child safety. I can see this causing problems in the future for us. I can't hide them from the child forever. They have to be used and cleaned sometime.

    For the record, they are locked in a steel cabinet in the bedroom closet and I carry the only two keys to it on my keyring. I keep the Glock loaded and holstered on the top shelf for quick access in an emergency. Maybe I should keep it unloaded now that the boy is turning 5, just in case. I'll just keep the mag next to it.
    "some people are like slinkies, they're not really good for anything but they can bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." –Unknown


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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyth View Post
    For the record, they are locked in a steel cabinet in the bedroom closet and I carry the only two keys to it on my keyring. I keep the Glock loaded and holstered on the top shelf for quick access in an emergency. Maybe I should keep it unloaded now that the boy is turning 5, just in case. I'll just keep the mag next to it.
    I'd take him to the range, and start preaching gun safety. I believe, (and I suspect you do too) that's the best precaution.

    Will
    The powers that be might take it all away
    Together we burn, together we burn away

    Uncle Tupelo

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by badwhale View Post
    I'd take him to the range, and start preaching gun safety. I believe, (and I suspect you do too) that's the best precaution.

    Will
    Though I think five is too young to comprehend guns, death, and gun safety, I agree that understanding weapons and knowing safety is the key. Mom won't be having any of that though, even when it's time. I'm not sure why she married a war veteran with a gun cabinet if she was this squeamish about firearms.
    "some people are like slinkies, they're not really good for anything but they can bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." –Unknown


    "He did for bullshit what Stonehenge did for rocks." -Cecil Adams

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoked! View Post
    Nice job on the rifle refurbish. I think it looks much better with the new optics. Now, what are you going to do with that pea shooter?
    Taking it to the range this week and shooting peas of course!

    As for open carry, Indiana allows it but I never do. People freak out way to easily to be walking around with a loaded pistol on my hip. The only time I carry openly is at the range.

    Kenyth, It is definitely time to start keeping the Glock unloaded if you are going to have it out. As someone who was recently 5 himself, I can assure you that as long as he has 1 working arm and 1 working leg, just being out of his reach isn't going to stop him from getting to it if he wants to. 5 may be a little too young for him to understand gun safety, but it never hurts to try While you're at it, take the wife out too. Let her shoot a bit with a .22 or something small and she should come around eventually.
    Last edited by Eville; 03-10-2010 at 02:24 PM.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville View Post
    Taking it to the range this week and shooting peas of course!
    If you can shoot peas with an M44, salud!

    Quote Originally Posted by badwhale View Post
    I'd take him to the range, and start preaching gun safety. I believe, (and I suspect you do too) that's the best precaution.

    Will
    My nephew turns 2 next month. I originally suggested a BB gun, then a pocketknife. Both got shot down. The wife's thinking about a pop-gun. I can't think of a worse suggestion. I suppose I have to wait a bit longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyth View Post
    I agree. It's already tough enough with the anti-gun crowd. Concealed carry makes everyone more comfortable and removes the intimidation factor.

    Criminals, irresponsible people, and gun control propaganda are really wreaking havok on gun owners. Hell, my own wife doesn't even like the fact that I OWN guns anymore, much less want to carry them. She's been bombarded by anti-gun propaganda based on child safety. I can see this causing problems in the future for us. I can't hide them from the child forever. They have to be used and cleaned sometime.

    For the record, they are locked in a steel cabinet in the bedroom closet and I carry the only two keys to it on my keyring. I keep the Glock loaded and holstered on the top shelf for quick access in an emergency. Maybe I should keep it unloaded now that the boy is turning 5, just in case. I'll just keep the mag next to it.
    Could not be more agreed, Ken. Say, for that Glock, what about a trigger guard? Or would that defeat the purpose as well? And how do you like the grips on those Glocks? I like them a lot, and find them more comfortable in my huge paws than, say, a 1911. I'm hesitant, however, because my wife's hands are small.


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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtr33 View Post

    Could not be more agreed, Ken. Say, for that Glock, what about a trigger guard? Or would that defeat the purpose as well? And how do you like the grips on those Glocks? I like them a lot, and find them more comfortable in my huge paws than, say, a 1911. I'm hesitant, however, because my wife's hands are small.
    I personally love my Glock more than my 1911, maybe because its my daily carry I've grown to like it more. But when i moved in with my old lady and took her shooting with it (figure she should know how to work it) she didn't care for it, she does however like the S&W .38 Special revolver i have. I guess the recoil of a semi-auto action was kind of intimidating to her.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyth View Post
    Though I think five is too young to comprehend guns, death, and gun safety, I agree that understanding weapons and knowing safety is the key.

    Kids are visual learners. Why do you think Seasame Street, Barney, TeleTubbies, etc., are so popular? It's geared for the way "they" think, so when we teach them something we need to do the same.

    I took the curiousity out of guns in my home by getting them BB guns, making them treat them like they were real, and taking them to the range and letting them shoot.

    We took some one gallon water jugs (Wal-Mart sells them for like 40 cents) and some red food coloring (Dollar Store, 99 cents) makes the visual part of your kid based training happen. Add the food coloring to the water, give a shake, and let them shoot it with their BB guns. I told my boys to shoot the water jugs, and once in a while you'd see a bubble or two from a slight puncture, but nothing more. Then I turned around, got them set with ear plugs, and explained why we don't touch Dad's guns. 7.62x39 HP from my SKS made those water jugs jump off the ground and blew colored water all over the place. The look of shock on their faces let me know I made my point, and then we talked about what would happen if the water jug was a person like Mom or Dad, or a friend they had over to the house.

    This was a few years ago, and my oldest is now my shooting buddy. My youngest has natural talent (shoots better than his brother) so I'm going to try to get him into target shooting and I'm replacing the upper on my AR so I can put glass on it for him to use.

    It's all about what you teach, and how you teach it.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville View Post
    Taking it to the range this week and shooting peas of course!

    As for open carry, Indiana allows it but I never do. People freak out way to easily to be walking around with a loaded pistol on my hip. The only time I carry openly is at the range.

    Kenyth, It is definitely time to start keeping the Glock unloaded if you are going to have it out. As someone who was recently 5 himself, I can assure you that as long as he has 1 working arm and 1 working leg, just being out of his reach isn't going to stop him from getting to it if he wants to. 5 may be a little too young for him to understand gun safety, but it never hurts to try While you're at it, take the wife out too. Let her shoot a bit with a .22 or something small and she should come around eventually.
    Clarification: It's not out of the cabinet. It's loaded on the top shelf of the locked gun cabinet.
    "some people are like slinkies, they're not really good for anything but they can bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." –Unknown


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  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtr33 View Post
    If you can shoot peas with an M44, salud!



    My nephew turns 2 next month. I originally suggested a BB gun, then a pocketknife. Both got shot down. The wife's thinking about a pop-gun. I can't think of a worse suggestion. I suppose I have to wait a bit longer.



    Could not be more agreed, Ken. Say, for that Glock, what about a trigger guard? Or would that defeat the purpose as well? And how do you like the grips on those Glocks? I like them a lot, and find them more comfortable in my huge paws than, say, a 1911. I'm hesitant, however, because my wife's hands are small.
    I own the Glock 33 pocket rocket with night sights in .357 SIG. It's quite simply the most reliable weapon I've ever fired. It has never misfired. Not even once. The light DA trigger is a no brainer for ease of use and safety. I would recommend this handgun to anyone.
    "some people are like slinkies, they're not really good for anything but they can bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." –Unknown


    "He did for bullshit what Stonehenge did for rocks." -Cecil Adams

  14. #154
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    Yup !
    Springfeild Armory 1911 GI.45
    My handgun of choice.
    Just like Amex - Never leave home without it
    It will always be a battle a day between those who want maximum change and those who want to maintain the status quo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyth View Post
    The light DA trigger is a no brainer for ease of use and safety. .
    I never understood why they call it a DA trigger. By definition, a DA trigger should both cock the gun and fire the gun in one motion. However, a Glock's trigger only releases the striker, which should make it a SA. If you try to dry fire it twice in a row without racking the slid for the second shot, nothing happens. Or am I missing something here.

  16. #156
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    Actually, a Glock isn't completely cocked, the trigger finishes cocking it and releases it. It's still not a double action, but it really isn't a single action either.

    The striker firing mechanism has a spring-loaded firing pin that is cocked in two stages, powered by the firing pin spring. When the pistol is charged, the firing pin is in the half-cock position. As the trigger is pulled, the striker is then fully cocked.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_pistol
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville View Post
    I never understood why they call it a DA trigger. By definition, a DA trigger should both cock the gun and fire the gun in one motion. However, a Glock's trigger only releases the striker, which should make it a SA. If you try to dry fire it twice in a row without racking the slid for the second shot, nothing happens. Or am I missing something here.
    I think the technical name is DAO (double action only) But with the "Glock safe" design even after racking the slide the gun is more like half-cocked and the trigger pull completes the cocking action. I think this has to do with the drop safety on the Glock as well.

  18. #158
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    Ohhh, thanks for clearing that up, it's been bugging me for a while.

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    beat me to the punch when i was refrencing my Glock book. (damn you wikipedia!)

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    Lol, sorry about that, I knew it but I wanted to back it up.

    DAO doesn't fit either. If it was a DAO, you could cock and fire it while empty, without working the slide.
    "Those are like the holy grail of cigars. Indiana Jones and the search for Argenicadomipanurans"
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