What's a brother to do...

[ggiese]

I wanted to write Hex a PM to address this issue. But it seems to me it's a bit bigger than Hex alone. It affects all of us here on this board, and I believe it needs discussion...

To no ones surprise, I am sick and tired of SFG75 (Alfred) dropping all of his crap all over this board like he's some kind of fairy bringing joy and happiness to everyone. He is doing this because he wants to make friends on this board. Knowing Alfred from previous boards, it is FAR more sinister than anyone would believe. It is about power and control - he wants to be able to establish humself as the authorative expert in the field of political views and cigars. The problem is, he is not willing to put in his dues and learn from people who know. - serve an apprenticeship, so to speak. I don't mean to sound snobbish, but there's a saying which reminds me so much of Alfred: "Those of you who think you know it all, are annoying to those of us who truly do!" I don't know it all, but I certainly know enough to tell you that Alfred doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does...

If you've watched the pattern - he's been "leg-humping" plain and simple. He offers encouragement and advice freely - much of which is shallow and bogus. For instance - a new person comes on the board asking advice about what cigars he should look into buying - and without missing a beat - Alfred is at his feet, humping his leg, telling that person they should buy a bunch of bundled crap you can't even buy at a local cigar store - it's only sold online - and the cigars are AWFUL!!! For what purpose?

He posts his left-wing political views all over the place, changing cigar talk into political discussions. Hell, I call him Alfred because he posts a "What Me, Worry?" Alfred E. Newman derogatory photo of our sitting president as his avatar. He now has American flags flying. His sigtag has links to his blog and AM760, places where even more left wing BS is contained.

Not that long ago he used "Carthago Delenda Est" as his sigtag without explanation. When it was exposed for what it meant (and believe me, it's not pretty), he just refuses to answer what it means, and changes it. I'm telling you, that sigtag is a very dangerous sign of who Alfred really is. Do some research on it and you'll understand...

Clearly, he baits others into attacks on him because of his bullshit, and then screams foul when HE feels they cross the line by mentioning it to him. An example is the " My son was born June 29th!" thread when Alfred states, "Have you and yours kissed sleep goodbye yet? It won't return for about eighteen years. " CC rightly responds, "And how would you know that" How old are your children? I know they're well short of 18, that's for sure." because we know his kids are 5 and under. So what does Alfred do, he starts the "CC's inappropriate post " thread to "out" CC for his bad behavior. Now whether or not Alfred was kidding at first, and CC was kidding in response, Alfred certainly was VERY serious about "outing" CC in the thread he started. And the funny thing is, Alfred posted twice in that thread - the congratulations first, and then the nonsense later (the one CC called him on) - like he knew (or should have known) it would cause a response.

Hex wants these discussions to remain in this Politics thread - and I try my best to accomodate that request. But Godamnit - Alfred keeps baiting in just about every thread he touches, and acts offended when called on it. Others on this board express displeasure when they see the constant bickering.

I don't suggest we ban Alfred - I believe someday he'll get it (maybe). If Alfred wants to stay on this board, by God - Let him! But, I hope everyone understands WHY the bickering is the way it is. Shagaroo analogized it incredibly well in one of his posts - "They should have just let me deal with the turd and left me alone and everyone would be happy and there would be peace in the neighborhood."

If Alfred chooses to stay and face the heat for his nonsense - so be it! If those who want to defend him wish to be heard - so be it! But, I'm tired of tip-toeing around this board because Alfred refuses to stop his nonsense, and then acts like everyone is picking on him because he started his nonsense.

I fear that Hex will end up losing his patience and begin to do some rash things. And what I MOST fear is what will happen to this board if that happens. If it were up to Alfred - myself and CC (and a bunch of others) would be banned, threads would be erased, and the talk on the board would remain juvenile in nature (because no person with any kind of cigar knowledge would want to stick around and deal with the likes of the garbage spewed by Alfred).

Please let those who know, deal with the one who THINKS he knows. Have patience - it will all work out. This forum has the potential to be a GREAT board. There are many good members here - and the board keeps growing day by day. To the newbies coming on board - things are not as bad as you may believe they are. This is not a war - it is a "police action"- nothing more than dealing with one rogue individual with a lot of baggage...

I see exciting things happening in the future. Cigar trades, box passes, contests, box splits and the like. But, in order for any of that to have any credibility here, there has to be checks and balances. You certainly don't want ANYONE to come in and take advantage of you (such as Oblik - whether intentional or not - trading in fake Cuban cigars). There needs to be older, experienced members to watch out for the others on this board to ensure you're not ripped off. Trust me - Scotty is not the one for the job - he already previously gave the thumbs up to the fake cigars Oblik tossed around - until it was finally pounded in his head they were indeed fake, and Oblik was not an honorable person. Or you will have someone come in here with some crap cigars they're trying to market, suck in the "pros" (like Scotty) who give them a ringing endorsement (like the Joya de Panama scandal at LTC).

If you choose to restrict this type of self-moderation, this board will remain at an infantile level. Take a GOOD look at Lets Talk Cigars - that is the DIRECT result of SFG75 and his cohorts doing to that board what I fear is going to happen here. They stifled criticism, allowed cheaters and morons to run the board, had juvenile discussions about cigars they were smoking, banned respected members of the cigar community, patted each other on the back even though they were CLEARLY wrong - and the list just goes on and on.

Thankfully we're not close to that yet here - but it's a distinct possibility if Scotty is allowed to have his way And that is the essence of the fight that you see on this board at this time - whether you agree with it or not. The worst thing that could happen right now would be for myself, CC and the others who oppose Scotty to walk away from this board - trust me.

Hex - please have some patience. I know we've been trying it - and I'm sure you're pretty much up to here with all the PM's you get about this nonsense - but I promise it will work out for the best. I hope Scotty gets it one day - he's bound to - but it will take time and he needs to keep hearing the message. I promise to keep MY really bad stuff to the Politics thread. And I hope others (including Scotty) will respect Hex in the same manner...

[joshua]

I wanted to write Hex a PM to address this issue. But it seems to me it's a bit bigger than Hex alone. It affects all of us here on this board, and I believe it needs discussion...

To no ones surprise, I am sick and tired of SFG75 (Alfred) dropping all of his crap all over this board like he's some kind of fairy bringing joy and happiness to everyone. He is doing this because he wants to make friends on this board. Knowing Alfred from previous boards, it is FAR more sinister than anyone would believe. It is about power and control - he wants to be able to establish humself as the authorative expert in the field of political views and cigars. The problem is, he is not willing to put in his dues and learn from people who know. - serve an apprenticeship, so to speak. I don't mean to sound snobbish, but there's a saying which reminds me so much of Alfred: "Those of you who think you know it all, are annoying to those of us who truly do!" I don't know it all, but I certainly know enough to tell you that Alfred doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does...

If you've watched the pattern - he's been "leg-humping" plain and simple. He offers encouragement and advice freely - much of which is shallow and bogus. For instance - a new person comes on the board asking advice about what cigars he should look into buying - and without missing a beat - Alfred is at his feet, humping his leg, telling that person they should buy a bunch of bundled crap you can't even buy at a local cigar store - it's only sold online - and the cigars are AWFUL!!! For what purpose?

He posts his left-wing political views all over the place, changing cigar talk into political discussions. Hell, I call him Alfred because he posts a "What Me, Worry?" Alfred E. Newman derogatory photo of our sitting president as his avatar. He now has American flags flying. His sigtag has links to his blog and AM760, places where even more left wing BS is contained.

Not that long ago he used "Carthago Delenda Est" as his sigtag without explanation. When it was exposed for what it meant (and believe me, it's not pretty), he just refuses to answer what it means, and changes it. I'm telling you, that sigtag is a very dangerous sign of who Alfred really is. Do some research on it and you'll understand...

Clearly, he baits others into attacks on him because of his bullshit, and then screams foul when HE feels they cross the line by mentioning it to him. An example is the " My son was born June 29th!" thread when Alfred states, "Have you and yours kissed sleep goodbye yet? It won't return for about eighteen years. " CC rightly responds, "And how would you know that" How old are your children? I know they're well short of 18, that's for sure." because we know his kids are 5 and under. So what does Alfred do, he starts the "CC's inappropriate post " thread to "out" CC for his bad behavior. Now whether or not Alfred was kidding at first, and CC was kidding in response, Alfred certainly was VERY serious about "outing" CC in the thread he started. And the funny thing is, Alfred posted twice in that thread - the congratulations first, and then the nonsense later (the one CC called him on) - like he knew (or should have known) it would cause a response.

Hex wants these discussions to remain in this Politics thread - and I try my best to accomodate that request. But Godamnit - Alfred keeps baiting in just about every thread he touches, and acts offended when called on it. Others on this board express displeasure when they see the constant bickering.

I don't suggest we ban Alfred - I believe someday he'll get it (maybe). If Alfred wants to stay on this board, by God - Let him! But, I hope everyone understands WHY the bickering is the way it is. Shagaroo analogized it incredibly well in one of his posts - "They should have just let me deal with the turd and left me alone and everyone would be happy and there would be peace in the neighborhood."

If Alfred chooses to stay and face the heat for his nonsense - so be it! If those who want to defend him wish to be heard - so be it! But, I'm tired of tip-toeing around this board because Alfred refuses to stop his nonsense, and then acts like everyone is picking on him because he started his nonsense.

I fear that Hex will end up losing his patience and begin to do some rash things. And what I MOST fear is what will happen to this board if that happens. If it were up to Alfred - myself and CC (and a bunch of others) would be banned, threads would be erased, and the talk on the board would remain juvenile in nature (because no person with any kind of cigar knowledge would want to stick around and deal with the likes of the garbage spewed by Alfred).

Please let those who know, deal with the one who THINKS he knows. Have patience - it will all work out. This forum has the potential to be a GREAT board. There are many good members here - and the board keeps growing day by day. To the newbies coming on board - things are not as bad as you may believe they are. This is not a war - it is a "police action"- nothing more than dealing with one rogue individual with a lot of baggage...

Hex - please have some patience. I know we've been trying it - and I'm sure you're pretty much up to here with all the PM's you get about this nonsense - but I promise it will work out for the best. I hope Scotty gets it one day - he's bound to - but it will take time and he needs to keep hearing the message. I promise to keep MY really bad stuff to the Politics thread. And I hope others (including Scotty) will respect Hex in the same manner...

I see exciting things happening in the future. Cigar trades, box passes, contests, box splits and the like. But, in order for any of that to have any credibility here, there has to be checks and balances. You certainly don't want ANYONE to come in and take advantage of you (such as Oblik - whether intentional or not - trading in fake Cuban cigars). There needs to be older, experienced members to watch out for the others on this board to ensure you're not ripped off. Trust me - Scotty is not the one for the job - he already previously gave the thumbs up to the fake cigars Oblik tossed around - until it was finally pounded in his head they were indeed fake, and Oblik was not an honorable person. Or you will have someone come in here with some crap cigars they're trying to market, suck in the "pros" (like Scotty) who give them a ringing endorsement (like the Joya de Panama scandal at LTC).

If you choose to restrict this type of self-moderation, this board will remain at an infantile level. Take a GOOD look at Lets Talk Cigars - that is the DIRECT result of SFG75 and his cohorts doing to that board what I fear is going to happen here. They stifled criticism, allowed cheaters and morons to run the board, had juvenile discussions about cigars they were smoking, banned respected members of the cigar community, patted each other on the back even though they were CLEARLY wrong - and the list just goes on and on.

Thankfully we're not close to that yet here - but it's a distinct possibility if Scotty is allowed to have his way And that is the essence of the fight that you see on this board at this time - whether you agree with it or not. The worst thing that could happen right now would be for myself, CC and the others who oppose Scotty to walk away from this board - trust me.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this post?

[ggiese]

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this post?

Is there something in that post you don't understand? I'd suggest you read it and then you should understand - if not, please let me know what's confusing and I'll try and clarify it for you..

[joshua]

Is there something in that post you don't understand? I'd suggest you read it and then you should understand - if not, please let me know what's confusing and I'll try and clarify it for you..

Well you have posted all of the same things in a million other threads so its nothing new. I am just wondering what exactly you were expecting to accomplish by posting it.

[ggiese]

Well you have posted all of the same things in a million other threads so its nothing new. I am just wondering what exactly you were expecting to accomplish by posting it.

Ok, so you got it - good!

You must be one of the few who is not concerned... Then just move along - it doesn't apply to you!!!

As a matter of fact, I've noticed you're one of the newer members at LetsTalkCigars. Things are pretty quiet over there lately - why don't you stop by and engage in some fruitful cigar discussions. Oughta be informative for you...

[CoventryCat86]

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this post?

My guess is to give some "background" to people like you who have no clue.

[CoventryCat86]

Well you have posted all of the same things in a million other threads so its nothing new. I am just wondering what exactly you were expecting to accomplish by posting it.

"Million" huh? Now you're just plain being an asshole. STFU and stop "trolling"

[gtxjet]

I think this might have something to do with my little encounter in the SFG 75 is a dork thread or w/e it was called. If so, I got the message.

[QuietC]

I wanted to write Hex a PM to address this issue. But it seems to me it's a bit bigger than Hex alone. It affects all of us here on this board, and I believe it needs discussion...

To no ones surprise, I am sick and tired of SFG75 (Alfred) dropping all of his crap all over this board like he's some kind of fairy bringing joy and happiness to everyone. He is doing this because he wants to make friends on this board. Knowing Alfred from previous boards, it is FAR more sinister than anyone would believe. It is about power and control - he wants to be able to establish humself as the authorative expert in the field of political views and cigars. The problem is, he is not willing to put in his dues and learn from people who know. - serve an apprenticeship, so to speak. I don't mean to sound snobbish, but there's a saying which reminds me so much of Alfred: "Those of you who think you know it all, are annoying to those of us who truly do!" I don't know it all, but I certainly know enough to tell you that Alfred doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does...

If you've watched the pattern - he's been "leg-humping" plain and simple. He offers encouragement and advice freely - much of which is shallow and bogus. For instance - a new person comes on the board asking advice about what cigars he should look into buying - and without missing a beat - Alfred is at his feet, humping his leg, telling that person they should buy a bunch of bundled crap you can't even buy at a local cigar store - it's only sold online - and the cigars are AWFUL!!! For what purpose?

He posts his left-wing political views all over the place, changing cigar talk into political discussions. Hell, I call him Alfred because he posts a "What Me, Worry?" Alfred E. Newman derogatory photo of our sitting president as his avatar. He now has American flags flying. His sigtag has links to his blog and AM760, places where even more left wing BS is contained.

Not that long ago he used "Carthago Delenda Est" as his sigtag without explanation. When it was exposed for what it meant (and believe me, it's not pretty), he just refuses to answer what it means, and changes it. I'm telling you, that sigtag is a very dangerous sign of who Alfred really is. Do some research on it and you'll understand...

Clearly, he baits others into attacks on him because of his bullshit, and then screams foul when HE feels they cross the line by mentioning it to him. An example is the " My son was born June 29th!" thread when Alfred states, "Have you and yours kissed sleep goodbye yet? It won't return for about eighteen years. " CC rightly responds, "And how would you know that" How old are your children? I know they're well short of 18, that's for sure." because we know his kids are 5 and under. So what does Alfred do, he starts the "CC's inappropriate post " thread to "out" CC for his bad behavior. Now whether or not Alfred was kidding at first, and CC was kidding in response, Alfred certainly was VERY serious about "outing" CC in the thread he started. And the funny thing is, Alfred posted twice in that thread - the congratulations first, and then the nonsense later (the one CC called him on) - like he knew (or should have known) it would cause a response.

Hex wants these discussions to remain in this Politics thread - and I try my best to accomodate that request. But Godamnit - Alfred keeps baiting in just about every thread he touches, and acts offended when called on it. Others on this board express displeasure when they see the constant bickering.

I don't suggest we ban Alfred - I believe someday he'll get it (maybe). If Alfred wants to stay on this board, by God - Let him! But, I hope everyone understands WHY the bickering is the way it is. Shagaroo analogized it incredibly well in one of his posts - "They should have just let me deal with the turd and left me alone and everyone would be happy and there would be peace in the neighborhood."

If Alfred chooses to stay and face the heat for his nonsense - so be it! If those who want to defend him wish to be heard - so be it! But, I'm tired of tip-toeing around this board because Alfred refuses to stop his nonsense, and then acts like everyone is picking on him because he started his nonsense.

I fear that Hex will end up losing his patience and begin to do some rash things. And what I MOST fear is what will happen to this board if that happens. If it were up to Alfred - myself and CC (and a bunch of others) would be banned, threads would be erased, and the talk on the board would remain juvenile in nature (because no person with any kind of cigar knowledge would want to stick around and deal with the likes of the garbage spewed by Alfred).

Please let those who know, deal with the one who THINKS he knows. Have patience - it will all work out. This forum has the potential to be a GREAT board. There are many good members here - and the board keeps growing day by day. To the newbies coming on board - things are not as bad as you may believe they are. This is not a war - it is a "police action"- nothing more than dealing with one rogue individual with a lot of baggage...

I see exciting things happening in the future. Cigar trades, box passes, contests, box splits and the like. But, in order for any of that to have any credibility here, there has to be checks and balances. You certainly don't want ANYONE to come in and take advantage of you (such as Oblik - whether intentional or not - trading in fake Cuban cigars). There needs to be older, experienced members to watch out for the others on this board to ensure you're not ripped off. Trust me - Scotty is not the one for the job - he already previously gave the thumbs up to the fake cigars Oblik tossed around - until it was finally pounded in his head they were indeed fake, and Oblik was not an honorable person. Or you will have someone come in here with some crap cigars they're trying to market, suck in the "pros" (like Scotty) who give them a ringing endorsement (like the Joya de Panama scandal at LTC).

If you choose to restrict this type of self-moderation, this board will remain at an infantile level. Take a GOOD look at Lets Talk Cigars - that is the DIRECT result of SFG75 and his cohorts doing to that board what I fear is going to happen here. They stifled criticism, allowed cheaters and morons to run the board, had juvenile discussions about cigars they were smoking, banned respected members of the cigar community, patted each other on the back even though they were CLEARLY wrong - and the list just goes on and on.

Thankfully we're not close to that yet here - but it's a distinct possibility if Scotty is allowed to have his way And that is the essence of the fight that you see on this board at this time - whether you agree with it or not. The worst thing that could happen right now would be for myself, CC and the others who oppose Scotty to walk away from this board - trust me.

Hex - please have some patience. I know we've been trying it - and I'm sure you're pretty much up to here with all the PM's you get about this nonsense - but I promise it will work out for the best. I hope Scotty gets it one day - he's bound to - but it will take time and he needs to keep hearing the message. I promise to keep MY really bad stuff to the Politics thread. And I hope others (including Scotty) will respect Hex in the same manner...

[CoventryCat86]

I think this might have something to do with my little encounter in the SFG 75 is a dork thread or w/e it was called. If so, I got the message.

I highly doubt ggiese's post is directed at anyone in particular. It's simply a statement of his opinion with a whole lot of facts thrown in that support his position. It also gives people who may be thinking "Why do those guys pick on poor little ole Scotty so much?" reasons as to why Scotty catches what may appears to be "crap" from many of us when in fact it's completely justified.

[SFG75]

I don't think ccat and ggiese "get it" that what a lot of people have a problem with is not their gripes and complaints. Rather, it is their methods of taking good threads-introductory ones, ones about a member having a child, and then bringing the heavy baggage of these gripes into it. Some members do want to remain neutral, but there is no question that they are agitated at seeing this stuff aired out across the board when it should be entirely in one forum-the politics forum. Part of self-moderation is that more than just a few voices are heard. So far, the only voices that carry sway on this board, are the voices of about five people. While the two guys who have posted have since retracted parts of their statements-it would be foolish to ignore their concerns that other probably hold, but haven't aired out yet since they are not confrontational people. Those people don't fight with members, they just simply go to other boards like CW where membership is huge and fighting is way down. Coincidence perhaps?

On another note, look at my 1,000 post contest thread. I start the board's first contest out of a desire to bring something to the table and to get to know other BOTLs. Yet, it's polluted with personal vendettas and garbage posts that ridicule me. In no way in that thread, has anyone else been baited by me. In fact, the opposite is true. Yes, I too want to see passes, trades, and splits. But you aren't going to see that if the members who will do such things have their offers smeared and plastered with off-topic gripes and inappropriate posts.

[Leebo]

Oh bullshit Scrotum! The only reason you started a contest was to attempt to buy a few friends over here as your popularity is on the decline!

You've never done a contest anywhere, so don't give me that crap!

I think you should go back to the island that you so boastfully bragged about after your ass was banned from CigarPass!

[8-5-8]

I think we could've saved some of us alot of trouble had this been posted a week or two ago...

[cigarsarge]

Well you have posted all of the same things in a million other threads so its nothing new. I am just wondering what exactly you were expecting to accomplish by posting it.

What are you trying to accomplish. I think everyone else understood it. I suggest you read it again.

[Bkcloud114]

I think that George makes a valid point in this thread.

When I first joined CP in Jan 2005 I had to take the advice from FOGs in order to understand what was going on and to have my questions answered. What George and Bill do to Scott is not meant to interrupt this board or any particular thread, it is meant to show to the rest of this community what type of a person he really is. It may piss some people off that it is in every thread they read but at least they are keeping an eye on him and calling him out for all his nonsense. I was banned from LTC for being associated with a group from CP. Scott was a moderator. It turned into an invite onlyBB and eventually Zac (the douchebag) had some "technical difficulties" and the site crashed. Go there now and see what type of a cigar BB it is now. There are people who I personally would not do any type of cigar transactions with and Scott is one of them. Seeing how many people have a problem with Scott, would you do any type of a cigar transaction with him (trade, pass..etc) ?

I hope that this BB does not turn into what LTC has turned into

[Diesel Grinch]

I am no stranger to internet Boards but to the cigar world I'm just a NooB who is still learning to get it. When I get it is up to others to decide. What the FOGs are doing here is saving the NooBs like me a lot of problems. While some of them might be new to this board they aren't new by any means to the cigar world of the internet. They have seen the scams and know which venders can be trusted and which BOTL's are real BOTL's not just someone who is trying to mooch off of others. They know how to call a person out when they need it. The internet cigar world is built on friendship, trust, responsibility, and commitment to following through on your word. I like a lot of others here do not have deep pockets and like the fact that I have others here looking out for me. It makes my life a lot easier to know that the money/cigars I send this person to buy/trade is safe.

To those of you that do the dirty job and protect us NooB's my appreciation goes out to you.

[Shagaroo]

Yes, I too want to see passes, trades, and splits. But you aren't going to see that if the members who will do such things have their offers smeared and plastered with off-topic gripes and inappropriate posts.

Yeah, cause CC isn't the one running the only pass going on or anything, right?

This is a perfect example of who this assclown really is. George has started the PIF, CC is running a pass. Both are moving great and folks are having a good time. What's jackass doing? Running a post contest, which he refused to be guided through how to properly run one by someone who has been doing this longer than most. And talk about personal bullshit. Take a read of that post contest thread and see it in action, scotty is giving a demonstration..

For the record scotty, if I happen to win, don't worry, I don't want your cigars. I want you to send them to the troops in Iraq. Preferably through OpFTH. http://www.opfth.org You can even take credit.

[Drake]

it would definitely make things better if scotty wouldn't post some of the useless things he posts. i think he baits you guys into attacking him on purpose. it is a sneaky way of pissing the guys off that know him and dislike him. does it bother me?...not a whole lot. all you guys' bickering and such is pretty funny, i think. but, i do see how it could annoy some. kind of the same way i understand why people can't stand death metal music, but i enjoy the hell out of it. i think it would make the ones that don't approve of all this happy if it all stayed in the politics thread, including scotty's bait posts!

[SFG75]

[SIZE=3]
The problem is, he is not willing to put in his dues and learn from people who know. - serve an apprenticeship, so to speak.

This has to be one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read. You guys demand 100% subservience to you. Just look-two guys just merely offered up suggestions about the way you go about things(not that you do, they could care less about that IMHO) and what do you do? You flip out at the possibility that you and CC might be losing control here and start posting this hand-wringing bromide. You guys flip out and state how they don't know anything and you entirely discount their opinion. O.k., perhaps they aren't correct 100%, but do their comments contain no sliver of truth? I'm amazed at the gall that you guys dare display towards other members of this board.

If you've watched the pattern - he's been "leg-humping" plain and simple. He offers encouragement and advice freely - much of which is shallow and bogus. For instance - a new person comes on the board asking advice about what cigars he should look into buying - and without missing a beat - Alfred is at his feet, humping his leg, telling that person they should buy a bunch of bundled crap you can't even buy at a local cigar store - it's only sold online - and the cigars are AWFUL!!!

I suppose you are talking about the Iguanas-let me tell you this. I've smoked four boxes worth of those cigars. I know them better than you and I'm more of an authority on them than you are. You've probably never had one. When someone asks for recommendations of cheap smokes, it is open to everyone to post comments. Whether or not they take that advice is completely up to them. What, should everyone run their list of sticks by you guys before a post is made on such a thread? Is that what you want? This is yet another example of you and your reeking elitism taking shape.

He posts his left-wing political views all over the place, changing cigar talk into political discussions. Hell, I call him Alfred because he posts a "What Me, Worry?" Alfred E. Newman derogatory photo of our sitting president as his avatar. He now has American flags flying. His sigtag has links to his blog and AM760, places where even more left wing BS is contained.

What's in my siggy is my business-I don't force people to click on it and they don't have to. Put up an anti-Clinton or democrat avatar or siggy link. Go for it, I don't care!. To each their own.

Clearly, he baits others into attacks on him because of his bullshit, and then screams foul when HE feels they cross the line by mentioning it to him.

Who posts morphed pictures on the "pictures of you smoking thread"? Who follows who around and makes snide remarks? Who makes a joke about "gay porn" and another member's PM box towards who? Who pollutes a contest thread with condescending posts that are off-topic and are clearly baiting in nature? Who here makes comments about a person's first name to genitalia?

Alfred keeps baiting in just about every thread he touches, and acts offended when called on it. Others on this board express displeasure when they see the constant bickering.

Baiting? How did I bait you on my contest thread?, how did I bait you on any newbie welcoming post? How do I bait you on my reviews that your friends trash? How do I bait you on the humor threads that I post on? You are going on pure nonsense.

I don't suggest we ban Alfred - I believe someday he'll get it (maybe). If Alfred wants to stay on this board, by God - Let him! But, I hope everyone understands WHY the bickering is the way it is.

Some members here have chosen to placate you-I never will. No groveling, no apologies, no effort to reach out. I'll walk out the door per Hex's request before that happens. Live with it.

I'm tired of tip-toeing around this board because Alfred refuses to stop his nonsense, and then acts like everyone is picking on him because he started his nonsense.

You are hardly tip-toeing, anyone who has been here awhile knows that.

This forum has the potential to be a GREAT board. There are many good members here - and the board keeps growing day by day. To the newbies coming on board - things are not as bad as you may believe they are. This is not a war - it is a "police action"- nothing more than dealing with one rogue individual with a lot of baggage...

Yeah, we've had a few people head for the door over negativity(never has one left for "leg-humping" reasons) This is already a great forum, perhaps it will be like CW-which has an enormous number of members and no flame-throwers who drive others out. After a day of work, people want to enjoy their hobby, not feel harassed if they don't bow down to some omnipotent members whose tastes and thoughts they feel, should dominate the board.

Hex - please have some patience. I know we've been trying it - and I'm sure you're pretty much up to here with all the PM's you get about this nonsense - but I promise it will work out for the best. I hope Scotty gets it one day - he's bound to - but it will take time and he needs to keep hearing the message. I promise to keep MY really bad stuff to the Politics thread. And I hope others (including Scotty) will respect Hex in the same manner...

Yeah Hex, ignore the PM's, they are just peasants, "little people" who don't know anything about cigars. Just ignore them and let them be driven off into the arms of CW or another place like that. All that matters is the views of five people, screw the rest.

[joshua]

Can't we all just get along and remain on topic in appropriate places. Also, its just the internet so don't take it too seriously.