Humidity

[Twotacotuesday]

I have researched till my thumbs bleed. I have a handmade box with a warped lid. I bought a brand new (cheap ) hygrometer and a Xikar humidifier w/crystals. It will not get over 62% RH. I even weather
Stripped the box. It's sealed tight. Still remains at 61%. It's pouring out. Humidity is 100%. Still 61% in the box. Moved my box to the garage. Could my hygrometer be that far off? Never did a salt test. Now it's stuck to my lid. Should I open
my lid in the garage for a while? Is the cold weather an issue? Sorry for
The novel and thanks in advance.

[illilli]

Well, I don't think your thumbs are bleeding very much actually. At least, you didn't read any of my recent posts on the subject of humidity (I'm not an expert, by the way...just a causal observer of fact). If you didn't calibrate your hygrometer and if it is an analog hygrometer, then you still have some work to do.

As for the humidity, I would be OK with 62% humidity in the winter. My humidor is reading 60% right now. All my cigars are perfectly safe at that humidity. They smoke wonderfully. So, you are probably OK, so I wouldn't worry too much.

How are your cigars smoking? What did you smoke last? Did you have any issues with the cigar cracking or anything?

While you are at it, why not tell us something about yourself? Do you want to stay a lurker or do you want to join our community?

[Twotacotuesday]

They smoke nicely actually. I smoked a punch last night and it was wonderful. I was just wondering if
They would be better at 70%. As long as they smoke nicely that's all that really matters. In the past I
Smoked only a few times a year. I recently dug out my humidor and stocked it. Trying to learn as much
As possible. And you're right about not reading your post. I started another forum an did my research
on that forum. The format didn't work well on my phone so I found this one. I like it better and ill be
around for a while. Thanks for the help. I'll just relax and enjoy my cigars at 62%.

[badwhale]

Yes, you analog could be off that much. If they smoke ok, you're good. They're not going to be "better" at 70rh, in fact, they might have a shitty draw, and have a lot of wrappers popping due to being too moist.

I run mine at 66%

Will

[kingbeefy]

I used to keep mine around 70, now it stays in the low 60's and they smoke better there imo.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kingbeefy]

Nice user name BTW.


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[illilli]

They smoke nicely actually. I smoked a punch last night and it was wonderful. I was just wondering if
They would be better at 70%. As long as they smoke nicely that's all that really matters. In the past I
Smoked only a few times a year. I recently dug out my humidor and stocked it. Trying to learn as much
As possible. And you're right about not reading your post. I started another forum an did my research
on that forum. The format didn't work well on my phone so I found this one. I like it better and ill be
around for a while. Thanks for the help. I'll just relax and enjoy my cigars at 62%.

Welcome to the board!

I normally keep my cigars around 65-67% during most of the year, but the winter lowers it to 60-63%. I had my humidor open a bit too much the other day and the beads were a bit dry, so I dipped down a bit lower than I like. It won't hurt anything like I said. I'm at 62% right now, so we are like humidity brothers.

[tc3driver]

Here is how accurate these damn hydrometers are:


They have all been in there for a week at this point.

[illilli]

One out of three aint bad! Calibrate the other two and you are golden!

Thanks for demonstrating the fact that hygrometers really, really need to be calibrated! Imagine how bad the analog ones are!

[craig]

And/or it just tells you that using a baggie to check hydrometers may not work all that well (and it often doesn't, unless there is a fan in the bag).

[ggiese]

Ok - if you can't get your humidor to precisely 70% with temperature at precisely 72 degrees, your cigars will fall apart.

To get the most accurate humidity reading possible, you need a chilled mirror hygrometer...

The heart of a chilled mirror hygrometer is the sample chamber, through which the gas to be measured flows. The chamber contains a coolable mirror and an optical system that measures the mirror reflectivity. During operation, the mirror is cooled until dew or frost begins to condense on it, changing the reflectivity and the optical output. The optical signal drives electronics that control the temperature of the mirror to maintain a constant layer of condensation. The mirror is therefore held at the dew/frost temperature. The dew/frost temperature is a fundamental property of water vapor and therefore an inherently reliable measure of moisture concentration. A temperature sensor imbedded in the mirror provides a direct measure of dew/frost temperature.

Why they are inherently reliable:

Chilled mirror hygrometers are inherently reliable because of this operating principle, and because the dew/frost temperature is measured directly – there is no need to convert parameters such as resistance, voltage, etc., to humidity through a calibration equation. We ensure temperature reading accuracy by using ultra-stable mirror temperature sensors that are calibrated against a NIST-traceable reference standard.

During operation, no long-term error can exist. If an error in mirror temperature somehow appeared, its dew or frost layer would immediately begin to increase or decrease, and the control circuit would heat or cool the mirror to restore the proper frost layer. Therefore, as long as the control system is operating, the mirror temperature must remain exactly at the dew/frost point.

[badwhale]

Ok - if you can't get your humidor to precisely 70% with temperature at precisely 72 degrees, your cigars will fall apart.

To get the most accurate humidity reading possible, you need a chilled mirror hygrometer...

The heart of a chilled mirror hygrometer is the sample chamber, through which the gas to be measured flows. The chamber contains a coolable mirror and an optical system that measures the mirror reflectivity. During operation, the mirror is cooled until dew or frost begins to condense on it, changing the reflectivity and the optical output. The optical signal drives electronics that control the temperature of the mirror to maintain a constant layer of condensation. The mirror is therefore held at the dew/frost temperature. The dew/frost temperature is a fundamental property of water vapor and therefore an inherently reliable measure of moisture concentration. A temperature sensor imbedded in the mirror provides a direct measure of dew/frost temperature.

Why they are inherently reliable:

Chilled mirror hygrometers are inherently reliable because of this operating principle, and because the dew/frost temperature is measured directly – there is no need to convert parameters such as resistance, voltage, etc., to humidity through a calibration equation. We ensure temperature reading accuracy by using ultra-stable mirror temperature sensors that are calibrated against a NIST-traceable reference standard.

During operation, no long-term error can exist. If an error in mirror temperature somehow appeared, its dew or frost layer would immediately begin to increase or decrease, and the control circuit would heat or cool the mirror to restore the proper frost layer. Therefore, as long as the control system is operating, the mirror temperature must remain exactly at the dew/frost point.

I read about that in the September '98 Cigar Aficionado article. I'm surprised my cigars haven't fallen apart yet, but I guess I'm just lucky sofar. I kinda like the sharp citrus flavor that cigars develop when they're within a degree of the optimum 70rh. On the other hand, I do not like when they fluctuate up to 71, and you get that distinct sweaty sock flavor.

[tc3driver]

One out of three aint bad! Calibrate the other two and you are golden!

Thanks for demonstrating the fact that hygrometers really, really need to be calibrated! Imagine how bad the analog ones are!

The problem being that the two that are off, are not calibrate-able, or at least not that I can figure out. The big square one on the bottom came with a high dollar Humidor that is "calibrated in the factory and does not ever need calibration"... same story for the cheap xicar.

And/or it just tells you that using a baggie to check hydrometers may not work all that well (and it often doesn't, unless there is a fan in the bag).

Interesting... I know I have a tiny fan laying around here somewhere... I can hook one up to a battery and toss it in there see if that makes a difference.

edit:


We'll let that sit for a couple days and see how that turns out.

Ok - if you can't get your humidor to precisely 70% with temperature at precisely 72 degrees, your cigars will fall apart.

To get the most accurate humidity reading possible, you need a chilled mirror hygrometer...

The heart of a chilled mirror hygrometer is the sample chamber, through which the gas to be measured flows. The chamber contains a coolable mirror and an optical system that measures the mirror reflectivity. During operation, the mirror is cooled until dew or frost begins to condense on it, changing the reflectivity and the optical output. The optical signal drives electronics that control the temperature of the mirror to maintain a constant layer of condensation. The mirror is therefore held at the dew/frost temperature. The dew/frost temperature is a fundamental property of water vapor and therefore an inherently reliable measure of moisture concentration. A temperature sensor imbedded in the mirror provides a direct measure of dew/frost temperature.

Why they are inherently reliable:

Chilled mirror hygrometers are inherently reliable because of this operating principle, and because the dew/frost temperature is measured directly – there is no need to convert parameters such as resistance, voltage, etc., to humidity through a calibration equation. We ensure temperature reading accuracy by using ultra-stable mirror temperature sensors that are calibrated against a NIST-traceable reference standard.

During operation, no long-term error can exist. If an error in mirror temperature somehow appeared, its dew or frost layer would immediately begin to increase or decrease, and the control circuit would heat or cool the mirror to restore the proper frost layer. Therefore, as long as the control system is operating, the mirror temperature must remain exactly at the dew/frost point.

Even more interesting... how can one fit one of these in a humidor...

BTW welcome Twotacotuesday :)

[ggiese]

I read about that in the September '98 Cigar Aficionado article. I'm surprised my cigars haven't fallen apart yet, but I guess I'm just lucky sofar. I kinda like the sharp citrus flavor that cigars develop when they're within a degree of the optimum 70rh. On the other hand, I do not like when they fluctuate up to 71, and you get that distinct sweaty sock flavor.

Hmmmm... I've been using a chilled mirror hygrometer for so long now, I actually have not had an issue with flavor. The "citrus flavor" you describe intrigues me, but I'm not risking the possibility my Macanudo's and Acid's could fall apart. That would be very tragic

....Even more interesting... how can one fit one of these in a humidor...

BTW welcome Twotacotuesday :)

Hahahahaha.... Fitting a chilled mirror in a humidor... LOL.

Look - we have to sacrifice if we want to have optimal conditions to store our cigars. I had to give up a part of my garage, and a small portion of my daughter's closet, - and a special filtered power line - but I got my hygrometer installed. If I recall correctly, the entire project was just shy of $20k, but well worth it. I absolutely love it! Works like a charm, and my cigars are incredible. In order to maintain the tightest rH tolerance, I had to scale back my humidor a tad (went from about 1,000 cigars to 250). I can't go back now!

I seriously feel sorry for those using the el-cheapo digital hygrometers. You make a great point in your post - exactly why I switched. And analog hygrometers? How 1700's...

[tc3driver]

Hahahahaha.... Fitting a chilled mirror in a humidor... LOL.

Look - we have to sacrifice if we want to have optimal conditions to store our cigars. I had to give up a part of my garage, and a small portion of my daughter's closet, - and a special filtered power line - but I got my hygrometer installed. If I recall correctly, the entire project was just shy of $20k, but well worth it. I absolutely love it! Works like a charm, and my cigars are incredible. I can't go back now!

I seriously feel sorry for those using the el-cheapo digital hygrometers. You make a great point in your post - exactly why I switched. And analog hygrometers? How 1700's...

My next humidor!
http://www.edgetech.com/moisture-hum...ror-hygrometer

[Twotacotuesday]

Thanks for all the help everyone! Continue to learn every day. Do I have to worry about my cigars falling apart? Is that more of a long time aging issue?

[ggiese]

My next humidor!
http://www.edgetech.com/moisture-hum...ror-hygrometer

Where the heck was that when I installed mine? Damn - I know it's only been a couple of years, but how the heck did they compress my equipment into a hygrometer of that size!!! Impressive!!!

I would suggest it, but likely the wifey will kill me if I come to her looking to buy the smaller version. Of course - my daughter will probably love me more when she gets her closet back, and my son will be thrilled I'll have a garage bay he can park his car. Maybe I can use those two to soften up the wife.

[ggiese]

Thanks for all the help everyone! Continue to learn every day. Do I have to worry about my cigars falling apart? Is that more of a long time aging issue?

You're quite welcome.

As far as the cigars falling apart - it really depends on a number of factors. How long the cigars have been stored as less than optimal rH, the skill of the cigar roller, the type of tobacco used in the cigar, the region the tobacco was grown, etc., etc., etc.

I would say - if you can't afford a chilled mirror hygrometer, stick with the standard issue electronic ones - or in their place - use a analog hygrometer. Since it's very likely you'll not be able to optimal humidity (since you don't have the proper equipment), I would just eyeball it. You know - get it to somewhere around 60-75 rH. I know the cigars won't be as good as if they're sitting on a constant 72, but certainly is you smoke them reasonably soon after you acquire them - they should be very delicious anyway...

Good luck!

[Twotacotuesday]

Do I guess to sum it all up, I have about 25 sticks in my humidor right now. At the rate I smoke them
(and share them) they don't spend a ton of time in my box. So as long as I'm above 60% I should be
ok. That's what I gather. Thanks again. I'm a member of a couple home brewing forums and I can say
This is the friendliest forum so far. Thank again for the help guys.

[ggiese]

Do I guess to sum it all up, I have about 25 sticks in my humidor right now. At the rate I smoke them
(and share them) they don't spend a ton of time in my box. So as long as I'm above 60% I should be
ok. That's what I gather. Thanks again. I'm a member of a couple home brewing forums and I can say
This is the friendliest forum so far. Thank again for the help guys.

Ohhh...those home brewers. They're a drunken lot. Probably suffering a hangover making them crabby. Or perhaps a crash from a hops high...

60 or more is good!