Cigarsmokers.com Box Pass Ver. 2.0

[chrisboy]

ahh, this is the part where i just sit back and watch you guys have some fun.

[jaewing]

Great suggestion Puff.

I too am new and would like to add that to the list if we can. If so the "puts" would have a value column as well. This would make it really easy for all of us rookies

[Roham]

*wonders if a Canadian has ever been known to join in on a American cigar pass*

[Oblik]

Most definetly a great sugestion on the prices. When it gets started there should be a spread sheet made like I did on the last one that has the cigar#, cigar, put by, taken by and price colums. The taken cigar # and the cigar should be crossed out and the put cigar then takes the # of the one taken.

As far as Canadian players go it would be ok if when the list is made that whoever is infront of our canadian BOLT is ok with picking up the extra shipping cost.

[cockyhoskins]

*wonders if a Canadian has ever been known to join in on a American cigar pass*

Sure thing. Someone on here is from Holland. That might be too far, but Canada should work.

[Roham]

shipping isnt too much more, and if it is, I will pay the differance, or "put" an extra in:) Uhm, I know I'll be putting in premium's for the most part. They are simple to get. Would there be a problem? [edited by cockyhoskins]

[cockyhoskins]

No problem at all. I would almost expect it. LOL!

[jaewing]

I am tapping my foot over here waiting to get on with the second. I guess I can be patient though.

[ggiese]

shipping isnt too much more, and if it is, I will pay the differance, or "put" an extra in:) Uhm, I know I'll be putting in premium's for the most part. They are simple to get. Would there be a problem? [edited by cockyhoskins]

Yes, there could potentially be a problem - especially because this will be coming out of Holland and Canada into the US. I was in a box pass where US customs open and inspected the package coming from Japan, and removed the "premium" sticks - and they sent a NASTY letter to the next person receiving the box. I think you should give some thought as to what to do if that happens.

Some have done a "virtual" pass, where the "premium" cigars and trades were seperate of the regular box pass - or, you could remove the bands and ship them separately - just be careful not to list what exactly they are on any documents in the box.

Just a thought....

[CoventryCat86]

I would love to get in on the second pass. I may have a friend that would be interested too. I will get him to join up.

Being new to the cigar world, I was wondering if it would be possible to have the values of the cigars posted in the box for newbies? Not being familiar with many cigars out there, I don't want to short change anyone and it will save some time so I (we) don't have to research the values of the cigars removed. Just an idea.

But yes, please count me in.

Not a bad idea and Oblik has already mentioned adding a column to the P/T sheet but the way most people do it is to use the prices offered for a particular cigar from the large on-line internet retailers like:

CigarsInternational
Famous-Smoke
JRCigars
etc......

As far as Cuban cigars go, the best to do in that regard is to use the price list that is put out by the Spanish government since Cuban cigar prices are controlled by the government and that price list is fair because it's not fair to say "I put a Cohiba Esplendido that's worth $41.43 because that's what it cost from a vendor in the UK"

[hex1848]

As I have mentioned, I do not want the trade/buying/selling of ISOM's to be discussed on this board. I'm not saying they can not be included in a pass, but it's up to the organizer(s) and members to get things straight via an alternate method of communication.

It's really for everyone’s benefit for us not to publicly announce that someone has these in their possession to begin with.

[CoventryCat86]

As I have mentioned, I do not want the trade/buying/selling of ISOM's to be discussed on this board. I'm not saying they can not be included in a pass, but it's up to the organizer(s) and members to get things straight via an alternate method of communication.

It's really for everyone’s benefit for us not to publicly announce that someone has these in their possession to begin with.

Having them in your possession is not illegal, using US Dollars to purchase them is. If people are going to do passes around here that include Cuban cigars, how can we NOT talk and/or post about them?

[hex1848]

Not according to this article on the US customs website: http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/trave...ban_cigars.xml. The basic gist of the article follows:

It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars. The penalties for doing so include, in addition to confiscation of the cigars, civil fines of up to $55,000 per violation and in appropriate cases, criminal prosecution which may result in higher fines and/or imprisonment

I copied the article and linked to it on the policy thread: http://www.cigarsmokers.com/t494-off...an-cigars.html

[Drake]

Not according to this article on the US customs website: http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/trave...ban_cigars.xml. The basic gist of the article follows:



I copied the article and linked to it on the policy thread: http://www.cigarsmokers.com/t494-off...an-cigars.html

what about a CFAPNTBM?

cigar from a place not to be mentioned

[jaewing]

Hex is correct.

Currently, due to US political policies with regard to Cuba and the resulting trade embargo, it is illegal to possess, trade, sell, buy, or otherwise deal in ANY Cuban products, not just cigars. This unfortunately would apply to any trades or box passes perpetuated here in this forum or anywhere else. And, after having read the official policy, it is somewhat disturbing to know that the penalties for violating the embargo apply to all parties and even individuals - and they are VERY SERIOUS . . . jail and major fines.

With all the great cigars from so many other places I don't think ignoring the Cubans in our trades and box passes will be all that great of a loss. However, not ever having had the oportunity to smoke a Cuban cigar before I may be understating the loss. Since I am a new Brother of the Leaf (BOTL) I am content in trying all that is "legally" available to me in the cigar world. Maybe when I am done with all there is out there I will try a Cuban.

What it comes down to ultimately is that Hex has asked us all to abide by the rules of this forum. One of these rules is not to discuss the trades and or sales of Cuban cigars on this forum. Regardless of whether the embargo does, or does not (and we know it does), cover our trades and box passes, he has asked politely that it not occur here.

I for one will respect that.

[ggiese]

Hex is correct.

Currently, due to US political policies with regard to Cuba and the resulting trade embargo, it is illegal to possess, trade, sell, buy, or otherwise deal in ANY Cuban products, not just cigars. This unfortunately would apply to any trades or box passes perpetuated here in this forum or anywhere else. And, after having read the official policy, it is somewhat disturbing to know that the penalties for violating the embargo apply to all parties and even individuals - and they are VERY SERIOUS . . . jail and major fines.

With all the great cigars from so many other places I don't think ignoring the Cubans in our trades and box passes will be all that great of a loss. However, not ever having had the oportunity to smoke a Cuban cigar before I may be understating the loss. Since I am a new Brother of the Leaf (BOTL) I am content in trying all that is "legally" available to me in the cigar world. Maybe when I am done with all there is out there I will try a Cuban.

What it comes down to ultimately is that Hex has asked us all to abide by the rules of this forum. One of these rules is not to discuss the trades and or sales of Cuban cigars on this forum. Regardless of whether the embargo does, or does not (and we know it does), cover our trades and box passes, he has asked politely that it not occur here.

I for one will respect that.

I think you are correct with everything EXCEPT the possess part. At this point it time, I do not believe it is illegal to POSSESS Cuban products - the rest is true (buying, selling, trading). And I believe there have been some court challenges to the possess part - I'm just not sure of the outcome... Maybe the lawyers on the board could research Lexis on that issue, if they have access. This would be good information.

As far as the box pass is concerned - and for future information - there either should not be any in the box, or there would have to be some method of discussing them which would be suitable to meet Hex's requirements. Some boards openly discuss them - others place a full ban on them. Whatever Hex decides is what must fly on this board. If Hex wants it that way - that's the way it must be!

It seems there is a certain tolerance for discussion (in private), but not on any public forum. on this board. My discussion of the illegal products on this thread was in response to an open discussion about whether there would be problems in this box pass - and there ARE some pitfalls (as I've previously stated). I only wished to inform other members about those pitfalls - I'm sorry, Hex, if I have offended you or the members of this board.

Since I'm not involved in this box pass, it doesn't much matter for me at this time. But, if I were to be involved in a box pass somewhere down the line, there should be some type of rules for the inclusion of these "products", or maybe there should be a total ban. These rules really need to be thought about... While the rule from Hex is clear, there seems to be some "bending" of that rule in these threads. It seems we are in a "gray" area (certainly it would not be bad to talk about issues related to trading, just not talking ABOUT the trades themselves). But, maybe I'm wrong.

As Jae points out, there are plenty of domestically available cigars that are very nice smokes. Some, to me, surpass the quality and taste of ISOM's. Certainly, it will not be the end of the world if members don't get the chance to try one...

[jaewing]

http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/cu1/wwwhleg.html

This is a good link to some information. I may do some research (since I am an attorney) with regard to "possession" being covered under the Act. However, how does one possess a cuban product unless he violated the "buy, sell, trade, deal in, import" prohibitions which are covered in the Act?

Interesting question.

[ggiese]

http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/cu1/wwwhleg.html

This is a good link to some information. I may do some research (since I am an attorney) with regard to "possession" being covered under the Act. However, how does one possess a cuban product unless he violated the "buy, sell, trade, deal in, import" prohibitions which are covered in the Act?

Interesting question.

That would be a great legal question on the prosection side, but I don't think you can arrest or prosecute for possession unless there's a law banning possession. i.e. - "Possession" of cannabis - even though there are laws in place for "buy, sell, trade, deal in and import".

Just a thought...

[CoventryCat86]

This has been hashed and rehashed for over 40 years and ggiese is right, the Trading with the Enemy Act has no teeth with respect to "possession" therefore your question:

However, how does one possess a cuban product unless he violated the "buy, sell, trade, deal in, import" prohibitions which are covered in the Act?

is certainlly a very interesting one but that is completely irrelevant.

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

It could be relevant if you ended up in front of a judge that was thinking along the same lines as jaewing. That is what is so bad about our laws, they are open for so much interpretation.