Thoughts on DLP...

[SuperChuck]

I'm thinking about getting a DLP TV (probably a Samsung HL-S5087W or 56)...

Any thoughts on DLP monitors?

We have HD service, but we mostly watch SD stations (that's one reason I'm leaning toward the 50" instead of 56")...

I'll probably be switching over to Dish Network soon, as well My Cox SD signal is awful on my 32", I can't imagine what it would look like on a bigger TV. Dish is supposed to have the best clarity of any carrier. (plus I don't get Fox or CBS in HD; I need my HD football).

(really, I mostly want to play xbox 360 on a bigger screen )

[WhiteWidow]

Go with a projector with a Sattelite dish. Best picture, and biggest screen for the money.

[Empire23]

I dont think that any satellite company has a better picture than any other. It all depends on who is broadcasting it. a digital picture should be the same on almost any DLP monitor. Now if your carrier has a bad connection, well thats different. We used to have Charter digital cable and I could see some "static" in the picture sometimes so we went with DirecTV.

As for the size, I would say go with what fits best in your place. If you go too big and sit close to the TV, it wont look as good.

I think Texas Insturments makes all the DMDs for the DLP TV's out there right now.

[ggiese]

My bro-in-law, who's in the business of fixing TV's, suggests against the DLP's. He says too many moving parts makes for too great a chance of breakdown. He suggests LCD projector, but pay attention to the manufacturer. Not all projection bulbs cost the same to replace, and that's the big money item that will go in those sets...

I picked up a Panasonic LCD projector last year - an absolutely fantastic picture and a great deal (cost me around 1,500 without the extended warranty).

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

[CoventryCat86]

WTF are you guys talking about?

Here's my TV:


I can get all thirteen channels. The damn thing takes a while to warm up but once it does, she's good to go!!

Someday, I may splurge for a UHF antenna so I can get channel 27 out of Worcester. MA!

It kinds of sucks in the winter sometimes, the antenna rotor freezes and it won't turn. If it's stuck in west, all I can get is the Hartford station and if it's stuck in east, all I get is the Boston and Providence stations. I just upgraded to the antenna on the roof last year, sure beats the hell out of those rabbit ears.

[SuperChuck]

I dont think that any satellite company has a better picture than any other. It all depends on who is broadcasting it. a digital picture should be the same on almost any DLP monitor. Now if your carrier has a bad connection, well thats different. We used to have Charter digital cable and I could see some "static" in the picture sometimes so we went with DirecTV.

The thing with digital video is it's compressed. That lets satllite and digital cable providers pack a lot of channels into a small "pipe", but compression comes at the cost of "artifacts" (blockiness, mosquitoes, etc).

Someone is actually suing DirecTV because they increased their compression after he signed up...

[SuperChuck]

My bro-in-law, who's in the business of fixing TV's, suggests against the DLP's. He says too many moving parts makes for too great a chance of breakdown. He suggests LCD projector, but pay attention to the manufacturer. Not all projection bulbs cost the same to replace, and that's the big money item that will go in those sets...

I picked up a Panasonic LCD projector last year - an absolutely fantastic picture and a great deal (cost me around 1,500 without the extended warranty).

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

I looked at a couple of the LCD rear projectors, but I think the image was lacking a little. Next time I'm near a home electronics store, I'll give them another look.

[Empire23]

LCDs dont have a long life either like the DLPs to.

and what moving parts does a DLP have? the mirrors?

[ggiese]

LCDs dont have a long life either like the DLPs to.

and what moving parts does a DLP have? the mirrors?

Yes - that's my understanding - and a crapload of mirrors at that...

[HarvInSTL]

After reading alot of this misinformation I figured I'd make a post of my own.

Go with a projector with a Sattelite dish. Best picture, and biggest screen for the money.

My problem with projo's is that even if it is in a darkened room, with Screen Goo it won't give the best picture. Plasmas will continue to have the best black levels and the best contrast ratios for a while.

I hate watching tv on a projo with the shades open because the pictures look washed out and not crisp. But sure watching a movie with the sound cranked up at night with the shades closed are awesome!

The problem with projectors is unless it is in a dedicated home theatre room with darkened windows (or no windows) and a properly prepared wall its going to suck for everyday viewing.

And if you go the projo route don't forget you will need to buy a cieling mount, extra long cables to run to your home theatre setup and you should have a reciever that handles your video switching.

If I had to buy a projo right now, but money would be on the Mitsubishi HD1000U & the Panasonic PT-AX100U. The Panny is a better projo but will cost you more.

My bro-in-law, who's in the business of fixing TV's, suggests against the DLP's. He says too many moving parts makes for too great a chance of breakdown. He suggests LCD projector, but pay attention to the manufacturer. Not all projection bulbs cost the same to replace, and that's the big money item that will go in those sets...

I picked up a Panasonic LCD projector last year - an absolutely fantastic picture and a great deal (cost me around 1,500 without the extended warranty).

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

Well according to your bro in law we should stop driving cars too? They have alot of moving parts, we all should just go back to riding bikes.

The first gen DLP's had alot of problems with their color wheels and most of them would give you rainbow effect. But in the last year or two TI has resovled all these issues and honestly a RP DLP is a great buy right now. Just makek sure it uses a 4x color wheel.

A couple of good deals.

61" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2850

50" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2185

Sony 50" 1080P LCD Rear Projo-$2250

LCDs dont have a long life either like the DLPs to.

No electronics these days are supposed to have a long life. Just look at the MTBF on most plasmas. They average around 75000hrs. THats 8.5years if you leave it on 24/hrs a day.

Sure thats just supposed to be an average, but I recommend the extended warrantys.

Sure that $1500 tv might cost $200 for the warranty. But that 4 year warranty for $200 ends up costing you about 13 cents a day. I look at warranties this way, if you can afford or don't mind replacing it then don't buy the warranty.

I compare warranties to car insurance, you pay for your car insurance "in case shit happens" (well that and the law prolly requires it).

Here are some places you can check out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

[Empire23]

the older LCDs didnt have a life of that long though. I guess it depends on what you buy but the DLPs out now shouldnt have any problems. I think also LCD screens can have the "burn in' effect if your using them for say a game system or even if you have your computer hooked up to it and use it alot for word or exel programs. DLP's wont get anything "burned in" the screen.

As for the moving parts, I wouldnt even worry about those breaking at all. If it does, it should be covered by the factory warranty.

I used to work at Circuit City and when you buy a TV like that, you can usually get the store warranty thrown in with the TV if you haggle enough with the sales person.

[ggiese]

the older LCDs didnt have a life of that long though. I guess it depends on what you buy but the DLPs out now shouldnt have any problems. I think also LCD screens can have the "burn in' effect if your using them for say a game system or even if you have your computer hooked up to it and use it alot for word or exel programs. DLP's wont get anything "burned in" the screen.

As for the moving parts, I wouldnt even worry about those breaking at all. If it does, it should be covered by the factory warranty.

I used to work at Circuit City and when you buy a TV like that, you can usually get the store warranty thrown in with the TV if you haggle enough with the sales person.

Circuit City blows... I bought my Panasonic LCD Projection TV from them with the promise that I would get a $200 CC gift card... (either that or I could get 0% financing). Yeah, right... Find out later it is tied to my "CC" Credit Card, which apparently is not handled by CC, and for some odd reason, noone at the store had recorded on my purchase that I wanted the points... The credit card company refused to honor it - CC refused to stick up for me, or to make it good... No 0% financing either... Fockers...

[ggiese]

After reading alot of this misinformation I figured I'd make a post of my own.



My problem with projo's is that even if it is in a darkened room, with Screen Goo it won't give the best picture. Plasmas will continue to have the best black levels and the best contrast ratios for a while.

I hate watching tv on a projo with the shades open because the pictures look washed out and not crisp. But sure watching a movie with the sound cranked up at night with the shades closed are awesome!

The problem with projectors is unless it is in a dedicated home theatre room with darkened windows (or no windows) and a properly prepared wall its going to suck for everyday viewing.

And if you go the projo route don't forget you will need to buy a cieling mount, extra long cables to run to your home theatre setup and you should have a reciever that handles your video switching.

If I had to buy a projo right now, but money would be on the Mitsubishi HD1000U & the Panasonic PT-AX100U. The Panny is a better projo but will cost you more.



Well according to your bro in law we should stop driving cars too? They have alot of moving parts, we all should just go back to riding bikes.

The first gen DLP's had alot of problems with their color wheels and most of them would give you rainbow effect. But in the last year or two TI has resovled all these issues and honestly a RP DLP is a great buy right now. Just makek sure it uses a 4x color wheel.

A couple of good deals.

61" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2850

50" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2185

Sony 50" 1080P LCD Rear Projo-$2250



No electronics these days are supposed to have a long life. Just look at the MTBF on most plasmas. They average around 75000hrs. THats 8.5years if you leave it on 24/hrs a day.

Sure thats just supposed to be an average, but I recommend the extended warrantys.

Sure that $1500 tv might cost $200 for the warranty. But that 4 year warranty for $200 ends up costing you about 13 cents a day. I look at warranties this way, if you can afford or don't mind replacing it then don't buy the warranty.

I compare warranties to car insurance, you pay for your car insurance "in case shit happens" (well that and the law prolly requires it).

Here are some places you can check out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

Hey, Harv - you got a DLP projector that's washed out... Boo-friggen-hoo... Mine looks great in full sun and full darkness. No problems with any of that, including black level. Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen. Sorry - but your theory goes right out the window when you see my TV...

Secondly - nope - I'm not going to stop buying cars because my brother in law tells me moving parts suck. That's as assinine a statement as I've ever heard... But - I will tell you this - if my bro-in-law were to tell me (because he's a mechanic and knows) that a certain make of vehicle is prone to problems I'm going to steer clear. It only makes sense, don't ya think? After all - he's theoretically the "expert"...

My bro-in-law - who services the DLP units tells me to choose a specific group of LCD projectors over a DLP because of issues related to the moving parts in the DLP's - I think I'm gonna pay attention... That's his game, right? But you service them as well, so you would know - I mean, you are the "expert", aren't you...

Sorry you took offense to my first post, Harv - hopefully you don't take more offense to this one...

[HarvInSTL]

the older LCDs didnt have a life of that long though. I guess it depends on what you buy but the DLPs out now shouldnt have any problems. I think also LCD screens can have the "burn in' effect if your using them for say a game system or even if you have your computer hooked up to it and use it alot for word or exel programs. DLP's wont get anything "burned in" the screen.

As for the moving parts, I wouldnt even worry about those breaking at all. If it does, it should be covered by the factory warranty.

I used to work at Circuit City and when you buy a TV like that, you can usually get the store warranty thrown in with the TV if you haggle enough with the sales person.

When you say older lcd's, are you talking about LCD Rear Projection TV's, LCD Flat Panel TV's/Monitors, LCD Projectors???

I don't see how any manufactor could have released any LCD product with a MTBF below 40000 hours. If you have any exact models or brands in question let me know and I'll find out.

LCD TV's are not affected by burn in either.

Circuit City blows... I bought my Panasonic LCD Projection TV from them with the promise that I would get a $200 CC gift card... (either that or I could get 0% financing). Yeah, right... Find out later it is tied to my "CC" Credit Card, which apparently is not handled by CC, and for some odd reason, noone at the store had recorded on my purchase that I wanted the points... The credit card company refused to honor it - CC refused to stick up for me, or to make it good... No 0% financing either... Fockers...

Honestly any big name electronics retail is going to have shitty service. Sure you might get a good sales person from time to time. But their overall objective is to make money, not to be concerned with saving you money.

The best service I've gotten have been from local family run stores that have been around for a few years. Problem with that is I would normally pay 20% more than what I could get it for at Best Buy or CC.

[bard]

TI is the only mfg of DLP chips because, well, we invented it I bought a 46" Samsung several years ago through a work discount purchase plan (TI employee if you haven't already caught that hint) and I absolutely love it. Yes, it is comprised of millions of tiny mirrors that are constantly moving to give you the different colors for each pixel by reflecting a white light that is coming through a revolving color wheel (timing must be a real biotch!), but the movement is extremely tiny and lifetime expectations are ~20 years according to some documents I just Googled up. How many dead pixels or lines have you seen on LCD screens The sharpness of my 720p unit is amazing. I can't imagine how nice the new 1080p units are. This is the main tv of my home of 4 tv-aholics so it's racked up a ton service hours without a hitch. I'm still on the original bulb (only expected maintenance part) and I've never seen a rainbow, but that is supposed to be something to do with the viewers eyes so you'll either see it or you won't. I do notice a wierd shimmering of flesh tones on occasion if the lighting of the scene and video source are just right, but my wife can't see it. There is an occasional high pitched humming coming from the unit when you first turn it on that is either the color wheel motor or just an artifact of the high intensity bulb heating up. I have no idea which it is but it quits within 5 minutes on the rare occasion that it happens. There are no unusual lighting limitations of the room like a typical old school rear projection screen and the x-axis viewing angle is larger than any rear projection I've had a chance to compare to. The y-axis is more limited than the x-axis but it's completely viewable between the ranges of sitting on the floor and standing. Is it as nice as Plasma? No, but it's also way cheaper. LCD? Depends on the models you're comparing. Even if I weren't an employee I would consider DLP the best bang for the buck option out there.

I'll shut up now and let you get back to your regularly scheduled program

[HarvInSTL]

Hey, Harv - you got a DLP projector that's washed out... Boo-friggen-hoo... Mine looks great in full sun and full darkness. No problems with any of that, including black level. Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen. Sorry - but your theory goes right out the window when you see my TV...

Secondly - nope - I'm not going to stop buying cars because my brother in law tells me moving parts suck. That's as assinine a statement as I've ever heard... But - I will tell you this - if my bro-in-law were to tell me (because he's a mechanic and knows) that a certain make of vehicle is prone to problems I'm going to steer clear. It only makes sense, don't ya think? After all - he's theoretically the "expert"...

My bro-in-law - who services the DLP units tells me to choose a specific group of LCD projectors over a DLP because of issues related to the moving parts in the DLP's - I think I'm gonna pay attention... That's his game, right? But you service them as well, so you would know - I mean, you are the "expert", aren't you...

Sorry you took offense to my first post, Harv - hopefully you don't take more offense to this one...

Sorry to say that no I don't have a DLP projector thats washed out. I've got a 42" 1080p LCD wall mounted in my front room.

My theory doesn't go out any window. How about you post the make and model of your projo and we can review specs and then I can decide if you are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

Besides just because it "Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen." doesn't make it the best picture available. It just makes it the nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture you have ever seen. I'm pretty sure the popluation of this earth is more than just 1.

I think you missed the point of my making the statement about cars and moving parts. I agree it is an assine statement, the point was that it is just as assine as your statement about not buying projo's because they have moving parts.

The keyword is "theoretically" the expert. Is he factory trained and authorised for any major manufactor repair? And unless he holds a cert from CEDIA, I personally won't believe a word out of his mouth. But thats just me, you have to believe him he is your bro in law.

Am I an expert? Can't say that I am, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either.

I didn't take offence to your first post at all, nor would I take offence to this one either. Taking offence over a post on the internet is so, whats the word,.....stupid.

The gist I'm trying to get accross to the OP is that one should never take the sole advice of one, but to gather information and experience the products he is interested in first hand. Then make a decision based upon that.

[HarvInSTL]

I've never seen a rainbow, but that is supposed to be something to do with the viewers eyes so you'll either see it or you won't. There is an occasional high pitched humming coming from the unit when you first turn it on that is either the color wheel motor or just an artifact of the high intensity bulb heating up.

If its under warranty or a service plan have a tech come out. It is your color wheel, or more specifically your color wheel bearings.

Its pretty easy to replace on the Samsungs, well at least the older ones. So if its not under warranty you could do it yourself.

As far as the rainbow goes, its hit or miss. Like you said some can see it, and other can't.
Everyone I know that has been able to see it on an older set with a 2x color wheel couldn't see it once they looked at a set with a 4x color wheel.

[cls515]

I looked at a couple of the LCD rear projectors, but I think the image was lacking a little. Next time I'm near a home electronics store, I'll give them another look.

I wouldn't go by the store set up. I would think the tv that the store wants to sell would have the best picture. And to speak on it, Panasonic is hard to beat. Sony is great too but a lot more expensive.

[ggiese]

Sorry to say that no I don't have a DLP projector thats washed out. I've got a 42" 1080p LCD wall mounted in my front room.

My theory doesn't go out any window. How about you post the make and model of your projo and we can review specs and then I can decide if you are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

Besides just because it "Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen." doesn't make it the best picture available. It just makes it the nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture you have ever seen. I'm pretty sure the popluation of this earth is more than just 1.

I think you missed the point of my making the statement about cars and moving parts. I agree it is an assine statement, the point was that it is just as assine as your statement about not buying projo's because they have moving parts.

The keyword is "theoretically" the expert. Is he factory trained and authorised for any major manufactor repair? And unless he holds a cert from CEDIA, I personally won't believe a word out of his mouth. But thats just me, you have to believe him he is your bro in law.

Am I an expert? Can't say that I am, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either.

I didn't take offence to your first post at all, nor would I take offence to this one either. Taking offence over a post on the internet is so, whats the word,.....stupid.

The gist I'm trying to get accross to the OP is that one should never take the sole advice of one, but to gather information and experience the products he is interested in first hand. Then make a decision based upon that.

Well, seeing as how your an expert on everything DLP/LCD projection based upon your own admissions, and you KNOW my brother in law is not qualified to judge because he PROBABLY doesn't hold an "authorised" cert from CEDIA, I'll defer this argument to you.

Please, everyone - harv's humble, but he's definitely the expert - he says so, even if he doesn't claim to be. Listen to his advice and please don't take "offence" to what he says... For 27 years old, he's pretty doggone smaht...

[HarvInSTL]

Well, seeing as how your an expert on everything DLP/LCD projection based upon your own admissions, and you KNOW my brother in law is not qualified to judge because he PROBABLY doesn't hold an "authorised" cert from CEDIA, I'll defer this argument to you.

Please, everyone - harv's humble, but he's definitely the expert - he says so, even if he doesn't claim to be. Listen to his advice and please don't take "offence" to what he says... For 27 years old, he's pretty doggone smaht...

Well now it seems that you are the one taking "offence" to my posts.

I'm nowhere close to being a qualified DLP/LCD projector expert. All I was saying was that I'm not stupid when it comes to DLP/LCD projector repairs.

Based upon my own admission I'm an expert? I'm pretty sure I said quite the opposite in my last post.

Do I know that your brother in law is not qualified? I sure don't, hence the reason why I asked what certs and manufactors training he had recieved. Once again with you failing to provide this information I can only assume that he holds none of them.

As well I asked for your projector model and make information so I could review the specs. I don't know of any projectors in the $2500 range that can rival the 10000:1 contrast ratio that plasma's provide.

Am I humble? I sure am, if I'm wrong about something I'll own up to and by no means am I an expert in the field.

At 27 years old am I smart? Thats not for me to judge. But I can tell you I've met some people quite older than me and realized that wisdom doesn't always come with age.

Either way this has gotten way off topic. The OP wanted to know about DLP monitors, not DLP projectors. And I provided my input on the topic and the misinformation that was being spread in the topic.

So for my last post on this topic I'll address the OP's questions more directly.

I'm thinking about getting a DLP TV (probably a Samsung HL-S5087W or 56)...

Any thoughts on DLP monitors?

The S5087W is an amazing set. The updated DMD & color wheel are fantastic and it is honestly one of the only 50" DLP RP sets I'd recommend. But I'd check around locally and see who carrys it, and see if there is a restocking fee if you return it. Most sets in store aren't configured properly and will look alot different in your home and not under those huge bright store lights.

If their return policy is liberal pick a few sets you like and test them for a week each. Once you find one you like do some searching on avsforum and see what they have to say about that particular unit.

If you get a chance I'd pickup a calibration DVD from Avia or the likes. Your alternative is having someone ISF certified calibrate your tv and that won't be cheap.

That way you can get it home, calibrate it and see if you like it or not. If you don't you can return it with no repercussions.

Just a reminder, make sure you have their return policy in writing. I've returned a tv to Best Buy twice before I settled on my current TV and both times they tried to tell me there would be a 15% restocking fee. Yet the policy on the back of their reciepts makes no mention of a 15% restocking fee on tv's,etc. Only on computers,laptops, and the like.

I'll probably be switching over to Dish Network soon, as well My Cox SD signal is awful on my 32", I can't imagine what it would look like on a bigger TV. Dish is supposed to have the best clarity of any carrier. (plus I don't get Fox or CBS in HD; I need my HD football).

Even with Dishnetwork's 10 birds in the air the HD programming has all moved from MPEG2 to MPEG4. While DirecTV uses MPEG4 as well, the are currently dealing with a lawsuit in regards to them dropping the quality of their HD channels so that they save on bandwidth and offer more HD channels.

And Dish network is normally cheaper too!

DIRECTV Sued Over
HDTV Picture Quality

(really, I mostly want to play xbox 360 on a bigger screen )

Then make sure you get a 1080p set, MS is releasing a software update later this year that will allow 1080p output. Couple that with the estimated retail price of less than $200 for the HD-DVD addon this holiday season. And we have a winnar!

http://kotaku.com/gaming/x06/rumor-x...dup-203314.php

There are quite a few more posts on the HD-DVD addon annoucement on xbox-scene.com