Tabacconist vs internet pricing

**ashauler** · 11-08-2006, 02:07 PM

I understand that a tobacco shops prices will generally be higher than on-line sites, especially when purchasing singles. My question is, how much higher is expected or acceptable? Instant gratification by purchasing singles locally has some value to it, but, personally, the anticipation of the cigars arrival also has value as it increases enjoyment/disappointment when it is finally smoked.

An example:
I can purchase a 3 pack of a certain cigar online for $19.50, you add the $5 for shipping and the price per stick is about $8.17........the exact same cigar at my local shop is $10 w/tax. Is this in-line, or an excessive "mark-up"? 1/3 of the cigars for 41% of the cost.

**cigar no baka** · 11-08-2006, 02:10 PM

Retailers with B&M operations have higher operating costs, so expect to see a higher price generally speaking at B&Ms. Of course, I support my local B&M as smoking cigars to me is a lifestyel and my B&M is a big part of that. I order a few cigars over the internet, but the vast majority of my expenditures are at my B&M.

**ashauler** · 11-08-2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by cigar no baka

Retailers with B&M operations have higher operating costs, so expect to see a higher price generally speaking at B&Ms. Of course, I support my local B&M as smoking cigars to me is a lifestyel and my B&M is a big part of that. I order a few cigars over the internet, but the vast majority of my expenditures are at my B&M.

I agree, and I make several purchases each month at my local shop, though mostly for singles to try different smokes. In my earlier example, I purchased the single from my local guy and didn't buy the on-line 3 pack.

Locally, we have 5 shops that sell premium cigars......3 are "discount" smoke-shops that also sell cig's, chew, etc....and the other 2 are only cigars and pipe tobacco. The three smoke shops are cheaper than the other 2, but I avoid them most times since the quality of conversation and suggestions etc...is lacking..only in it for the money. But, a RP Edge at the discount is $4 and at the premium shops is $5.75......can't avoid a quick in and out for that price difference.

Also the cigar only stores have a wider selection, even among the same brand, like A Fuente's, which I was told by one of the discount guys is due to Fuente being "difficult" to deal with.

I know virtually nothing about how the cigar "biz" works so I don't know if this is bs or not.

**drew_goring** · 11-08-2006, 02:45 PM

I buy the odd stick...maybe a few a year from my local. I just can't afford it though. Why pay 26 bucks for a CAO Brazilia when I can get it for less than 6?

edit: If I lived in the US I would support a B&M as much as I could. As long as the prices were within 10-20% of online pricing.

**tampacigargirl** · 11-08-2006, 03:33 PM

Oh where do I start?

1. B&M's typically have alot more expenses associated with operating a store. Internet sellers (especially some of the deep discounters) have a no need for the costs associated with retail space, retail display, merchandising product, ect.. They can operate with the min. number of staff with no cigar knowledge needed.

2. One thing that makes a successful B&M is Customer Service. Some of the free Customer Services we provide: Coffee, Cigar Knowledge, free lighter refills, free lighter repair (no parts needed); buff, clean, & polish pipes; free pipe tobacco samples, custom tobacco blending, ability to find & sell you any box of cigar that is not machine made (although we do from time to time) , a second or private label cigar; replace bad sticks (bad draw, canoing, taste off) even when partially smoked.

3. Promotions and events. Free in store promotions that provide you with a chance to meet the cigar makers, try cigars for free, free booze, free drinks. Special events for customers based on their smoking preferences that include free dinner, drinks, and a chance to buy cigars they can't normally buy by the box. (We've had both Ashton VSG, Opus, & Padron 1926 nights.)

4. As you mentioned Fuente "being difficult", the discount guys can say that for many other manufactures as well. NO one likes seeing their product discounted. Not to the extremes that some of these discounters go to. Imagine that your family has spent 75+ years making a premium product that you put a retail price of $8 on, you go online or to a discount store and see them selling it for $5 to $6 a stick or less. They are devaluing your product and naming you a bargain basement item. And they are putting the B&M's that have been selling your product for 40-50 years out of business.

5. Taxes, Taxes, Taxes... Every state has their own taxing structure. Here in Florida we do not pay taxes on cigars. (Cigarettes, Pipe Tobacco, Chew, & Snuff are taxed.) So prices will vary from state to state.

Originally Posted by ashauler

An example:
I can purchase a 3 pack of a certain cigar online for $19.50, you add the $5 for shipping and the price per stick is about $8.17........the exact same cigar at my local shop is $10 w/tax. Is this in-line, or an excessive "mark-up"? 1/3 of the cigars for 41% of the cost.

Sounds pretty inline considering they typically have 1/3 of the over head that a B&M has. Depends on the cigar as well.

Originally Posted by drew_goring

I buy the odd stick...maybe a few a year from my local. I just can't afford it though. Why pay 26 bucks for a CAO Brazilia when I can get it for less than 6?

edit: If I lived in the US I would support a B&M as much as I could. As long as the prices were within 10-20% of online pricing.

That just goes back to taxes.... I can't blame you there Drew. Support a US B&M like me!

This industry is just like any other. It all boils down to quality, supply, demand, ect.

I like bargains as much as the next person. I buy my favorite clothes, shoes, electronics, and even cigars on sale when I can. I spend a lot of time evaluating my humidor, discounting items, looking for new product, and dodging the bundle BS. I don't like bundle cigars.. Why? Because they don't pay the bills, put food on my table, and keep my son in his favorite video games.

Ok... there's my 2 cent rant for the day. Hope I wasn't sounding B****Y.

bigpoppapuff · 11-08-2006, 03:43 PM

not to disparage ANY on-line retailers (except TBS,atlantic,niceash)....the backbone of the industry is the B&M.....is ,in addition to what cigargirl stated,ambience worth anything??..sitting,smoking a cigar,drinking a beverage,and schmoozing with other patrons...is that worth anything??...they both serve a purpose....but trust me....if the B&M's die...so is the industry..

**chefchris** · 11-08-2006, 04:00 PM

I pray everynight for God to deliver a B&M in Tupelo, MS. We have 3 discount shops, one of them has nothing more than a cigar case. Notice I said case, no humidification device. No one at these stores knows jack either. Another one has a walk-in, but strangely is extremely over priced. Although I would agree to pay this in order to fellowship with other BOTL, the workers here are clueless. One was a young teenage girl who talked on her cell phone the whole time, then asked me if I was 18 ... after she handed me my change.

I got the chance to visit one in Mephis a couple weeks back, and loved it. I sat there and talked humidor lingo with the owner, who was an older man. We would have had nothing else in common otherwise. So it was cool.

**Quint** · 11-08-2006, 04:07 PM

I love going into my local shop and talking cigars getting suggestions trying them out and then going back to share review. Unfortunately there are only a couple of small shops in my area and none have smoking rooms so I cant sit around and have a smoke and talk stogie trash. Sadly though there is quite a mark up on some of my favorites. Take Ashton VSG Sorcerer local shop sells it for $14.95 I can get it online for $9.60 thats over 60% mark up. I can't justify buying from the shop in this case. There are others that are around 20% or so that occasionally I'll buy from the shop. I'm not quite sure why there is so much mark-up fluxuation from cigar to cigar but it sure makes it hard to support local shops with that type of mark-up. But I do my best...........

**tampacigargirl** · 11-08-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Quint

I love going into my local shop and talking cigars getting suggestions trying them out and then going back to share review. Unfortunately there are only a couple of small shops in my area and none have smoking rooms so I cant sit around and have a smoke and talk stogie trash. Sadly though there is quite a mark up on some of my favorites. Take Ashton VSG Sorcerer local shop sells it for $14.95 I can get it online for $9.60 thats over 60% mark up. I can't justify buying from the shop in this case. There are others that are around 20% or so that occasionally I'll buy from the shop. I'm not quite sure why there is so much mark-up fluxuation from cigar to cigar but it sure makes it hard to support local shops with that type of mark-up. But I do my best...........

He's way over pricing them. You have a 15% Cigar tax in Mass. So at most he should be selling that Sorcerer for 11.95. Here in Florida with No Tax they sell for $10.40. Some B&M's will try to get top dollar for VSG, Opus, and Anjeio. Some shops will also vary their prices depending on whether they purchase the product direct or from a wholesaler (which they shouldn't do), or hike their prices due to their location (which they shouldn't do either).

**SmokinDVM** · 11-08-2006, 06:03 PM

I visit a nice B&M in the North San Fernando Valley. The prices are outrageous, as expected here in CA. but I still buy sticks, mostly to try new ones, from them.
However, if I like a stick, I buy my boxes from online retailers due to the prohibitive prices.

Interesting though that even here, with the prices, I'm never the only customer in the shop.

**Dru Lee Parsec** · 11-08-2006, 06:17 PM

Ok... there's my 2 cent rant for the day. Hope I wasn't sounding B****Y.

Not at all. It's nice to hear the opinions of someone who's actually in the business.

**Evillepaintball** · 11-08-2006, 06:27 PM

Warning: pissed off rant ahead
I personally hate going to my local B&M. its about a 35 minute drive from my house, and the customer service, at least for me(my guess is because of my age) pretty much sucks. Its ok when the younger guy is working, he's pretty cool, but the owner is, to say the least, an asshat. Whenever I walk in, the first thing he says when I open the door is "so you gonna buy somethin or what?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main factors of good customer service is being kind, or at least neutral to your customers right? I let it slide the first couple of times but now i've decided that if he's going to be a dick about it, I might as well just go to some internet retailer. It's cheaper, uses less of my time, and this way i don't have to physically interact with the guy who's just trying to get my money.

**stjohnroe** · 11-08-2006, 06:46 PM

I like B&Ms for the opportunity to chat, but more importantly (IMHO) you get to have a look and sniff at the merchandise before you buy. While I buy most of my sticks on the web, the majority of cigars that I have smoked have been initialy seen, discussed and bought as singles at a B&M. Only after I am satisfied through that process will I but a box online.

**cigarsarge** · 11-08-2006, 06:47 PM

I patronize my local B&M weekly. Every Saturday I make a trip there to have a smoke or two, watch a game, and have a little drink...The Saturday crew keeps a bottle behind the counter to encourage conversation.

A mixed group of people are there. We have a State Senator, cops. Coca- Cola route guys, truck dirvers ect. that come in to smoke and swap lies...Can't get that on the internet.

I agree with Sid...The backbone of the industry is the local B&M. Internet sales are fine and have their place...But you just can't beat the feel of a good local shop.

**tampacigargirl** · 11-08-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Evillepaintball

Warning: pissed off rant ahead
I personally hate going to my local B&M. its about a 35 minute drive from my house, and the customer service, at least for me(my guess is because of my age) pretty much sucks. Its ok when the younger guy is working, he's pretty cool, but the owner is, to say the least, an asshat. Whenever I walk in, the first thing he says when I open the door is "so you gonna buy somethin or what?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main factors of good customer service is being kind, or at least neutral to your customers right? I let it slide the first couple of times but now i've decided that if he's going to be a dick about it, I might as well just go to some internet retailer. It's cheaper, uses less of my time, and this way i don't have to physically interact with the guy who's just trying to get my money.

It sounds like the owner needs a new line of work. Everyone needs to make a living but if you can't be courteous to everyone (that either deserves it or has never had a reason not to deserve it) you need to get out of any type job where you interact with people. Check out some other B&M's when you have the chance. We're definitely not all like that, but like with any business you will have bad apples.

bigpoppapuff · 11-08-2006, 08:09 PM

eville...you need to try to engage the owner in conversation...let him know that you're serious about cigars,etc.....exchange stories.....break down the barrier that he put up...

**Desert Rat** · 11-08-2006, 09:01 PM

Simple math for me-do I buy 10 gars from my local B&M or 15 online for the same price.

I smoke a lot of cigars so the choice is obvious.

Sampling, smoozing, "supporting" the locals gets a few of my dollars, but by the box, its strictly online.

And remember, the locals in my area don't mind one bit charging $20 to $30 dollars per premium stick.

**drew_goring** · 11-08-2006, 09:09 PM

Wow, this is sad. I just realized that when I move to the States, the tobacco tax rate and availability of nice B&Ms in the area is going to have a large bearing on whether I move to a certain place or not.

**chefchris** · 11-08-2006, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by drew_goring

Wow, this is sad. I just realized that when I move to the States, the tobacco tax rate and availability of nice B&Ms in the area is going to have a large bearing on whether I move to a certain place or not.

i smell an intervention.