smoking bans going too far?

[ashauler]

okay let's solve this "is second hand smoke bad" thing. Go out, get yourself a mouse. When you enjoy a cigar put a mouse in a sealed container. Blow your smoke into the container. See what mouse eventually dies from. My dog hates smoke. Maybe he is smarter then I am. However I believe in a free market dictating if a private business is smoking or not.

This would be lack of oxygen!! Your proposed experiment is pretty much how its done now. And like I said in an earlier post does not accurately reflect the reality of second hand smoke exposure. You could kill the mouse if you pumped nitrogen into the box in a quantity that reduced the oxygen content sufficiently.....and everybody breathes nitrogen with every breath we take. Debating the health effects is really pointless anyway.

The last sentence of your post is the crux of the matter.

[cigar no baka]

I could be wrong, I'll admit that, but this site provides some good things to think about.

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422


Some notable things from this:

- New research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades.

- Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).

- Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 46,000 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.

- Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.


So maybe these facts are propaganda or are made up. I'd tend to trust most of them done by the EPA and the private investigation done by Philip Morris. However, it seems that unfortunately a lot of things in this world can't be looked at as concrete fact.

But, like ashauler said we are talking about the freedoms here, so I kind of got the conversation off course.

Even more off topic Colbert Report is an amazing show. I'd definately vote for him if he ran.

Those approximate numbers you list ofr deaths is a best guess. They cannot determine how hazardous second hand smoke is, so they make up numbers to support their propoganda.

[cigar no baka]

One of the friends I've made at the smoke shop is a ER doctor. He points out that carcinogens in a restaurant that grills food is more hazardous than most pollutants and is most likely contributint to disease and death. So in order to improve our safiness, are we going to start banning grilling at restaurants to protect employees? How far will we, the free people of the USA, allow the government to go to protect our safiness?

[Maduro Man]

One of the friends I've made at the smoke shop is a ER doctor. He points out that carcinogens in a restaurant that grills food is more hazardous than most pollutants and is most likely contributint to disease and death. So in order to improve our safiness, are we going to start banning grilling at restaurants to protect employees? How far will we, the free people of the USA, allow the government to go to protect our safiness?

Dude…Let me tell you…This whole thing is like kissing your grandma. Remember when our moms and dads would make us do that when we were kids? “Go kiss your grandma honey!” Man I hated doing that! You’re really uncomfortable doing it and that smell of lotion stays on your face for what seems like hours!!! YUCK!!! But the more you did it the easier it got.

I live in the “Communist” State of Cali. Not to mention in the bay area, were all these STUPID ASS laws are written. The city of SF will say it is perfectly acceptable for a bum to use your porch as a bathroom but you better not smoke in the public park with-in 50 feet of a playground or you will be arrested! Sometimes I hate this F-ING state!

Anyway, they should let us smoke our sticks in peace!!! “GO KISS YOUR GRANDMA CALI” Let her smoke where she wants!!!

(Stepping off of my soap box)

[Mikey-OH]

Dude…Let me tell you…This whole thing is like kissing your grandma. Remember when our moms and dads would make us do that when we were kids? “Go kiss your grandma honey!” Man I hated doing that! You’re really uncomfortable doing it and that smell of lotion stays on your face for what seems like hours!!! YUCK!!! But the more you did it the easier it got.

I live in the “Communist” State of Cali. Not to mention in the bay area, were all these STUPID ASS laws are written. The city of SF will say it is perfectly acceptable for a bum to use your porch as a bathroom but you better not smoke in the public park with-in 50 feet of a playground or you will be arrested! Sometimes I hate this F-ING state!

Anyway, they should let us smoke our sticks in peace!!! “GO KISS YOUR GRANDMA CALI” Let her smoke where she wants!!!

(Stepping off of my soap box)

hahahaha. I feel for ya man. There's always space here in Ohio if you get sick of it. We'll just stick you in the hills somewhere and you can live in peace.

[597]

Well I heard of some other "bans" around my area. I thought it was interesting that some hospitals around my house are banning smoking completely in hospitals, outside hospitals, in hospital parking lots and even if you smoke in your car at the hospital. Now don’t get me wrong I understand not allowing smoking in hospitals and in close proximity to the hospital. But in the parking lot? And in Your own car? I’m pretty sure that your car would probably put off far worst emissions then a single cigar or cigarette smoked inside your car or in the parking lot.