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I have been reading Cigar Aficionado for the last couple of months. I have notice something.
There are less and less cuban cigars in the top ratings. What does that mean?
Does it mean that the other cigars are better?
Or does it mean that the others have more money for advertising?
Cuban cigar companies are owned by the state of Cuba? Communists.
What is your take on it?
I've noticed this too, last couple issues non cubans have been some of the higher rated smokes. Supposedly cA does all it's tasting blind, with a panel of judges and the results averaged. This should eliminate any bias the manufacturer could have on the judges. I've had some awesome non cuban smokes recently so I think the companies are coming into their own with the production reaching a mature stage.
Or the whole thing is rigged and cA is getting kick backs.
i think that its because the other companies are just getting better. they realize that they need better products to compete with cubans.
Could quite possibly be the lower qc and overall quality of some the more recent cubans.....
Then again I sometimes find it hard to believe a magazine 100% of the time.
A cigar is just like any other fine merchandise. The product can only be as good as its maker. The non-cuban companies must be putting more effort in producing a great cigar.
I think as time goes on, the manufacturers outside Cuba are catching up. From what I have heard, after Castro took over, many of the manufacturers took over and left the country as their businesses were confiscated. Many of them relocated to Central America and started up companies of their own using Cuban seed they brought with them and their knowledge. So it's only a matter of time before the Cuban manufacturers lose ground to the others.
I recall reading somewhere recently that the quality of SOME Cuban cigars has been in the decline lately. I can't remember where I read it though! :smiley26:
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Originally Posted by cigar no baka
Tobacco fields outside Cuba, planted with Cuban seed have never even been close to Cuban grown criollo and corojo tobacco strains. All plants adapt to new environmental conditions, and are sensitive to all aspects of that environment, including soil composition, altitude, wind, water...everything, and tobacco is no exception. Example: Ever see a banana plantation in North Dakota?
I'm not sure how tobacco grown outside of Cuba could, "catch up".
Tell you what, go to a quality tobacconist anywhere in the world except here in the USA and ask for their finest cigar. The day they give you a Padron is the day you'll know they caught up.
Added with edit: There is not a single experienced cigar smoker I know who thinks ca ratings are worth crap. A complete rag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F.T. Pulver
Well there seems to be a lot of disagreement over this issue. I'm no expert, I've had a few Cubans I got from a friend who got them from an trusted source in Great Britain, and I didn't think they were much greater than the best smokes I have had from other manufacturers.
Excellent post F.T. Pulver :smiley20:
There is NOTHING in the world like the taste of Cuban tobacco therefore it is impossible to "catch up" It is impossible to use "Cuban" seeds and try and grow it in another country. The soil is different and the taste cannot be replicated. Many have tried, they all have failed.
"Quality problems"? That's a funny one!!! I pull more stems out of non cuban cigars and have far more plugged or too loosely rolled NON Cuban cigars than Cuban cigars.
In my experience (unlike Scotty who just repeats things but lets you believe he has first hand knowledge), on average, Cuban cigars with box codes from the '99, '00, '01 time frame had a slightly higher chance of exhibiting "quality problems" with respect to being plugged. Since then, the cigars are fine. I have yet to smoke a Cuban cigar with an '03 or '04 box code that was plugged and you're going to have to take my word for it that I've smoked "a few" :smiley36: :smiley2:
If you guys want to keep listening to the urban legends and the non Cuban manufacturer's propaganda, go right ahead but you'd be doing yourself a HUGE favor if you let YOURSELF decide, not the jerkoffs at CAO or the dope at your local cigar shop who obviously will fill your head full of bullshit because he CAN'T legally sell you Cuban cigars. :smiley2:
Well I'm not relying on the opinions or statements of others, I'm judging from my own experiences. My friend gave me a dozen Cubans, and as far as I am concerned they were no better than some of the non ISOM's for my tastes.
I guess I should clarify my post.
In no way did I mean that all Cubans are bad. The best cigars I have ever smoked have been from ISOM. I do stipulate that NO company/product is free from quality control problems.
Like I said earlier, if someone can't tell the difference between a Cuban and a non-Cuban then it's probably not worth it for them to pony up the cash for a Cuban......comprende.
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Originally Posted by CoventryCat86
There are two factors here that people are talking about as one. The quality of the TOBACCO suffered during the time cat outlines, although I would give it a smaller window of late 99 into early 2000 and most of this was due to Habanos trying to meet the demand of the boom, it mainly affected wrappers and was mainly on larger ring cigars. I believe, although someone may correct me, it was at this time the Cubans also switched wrapper tobacco strains. When I hear guys griping about cigars from this time frame, they are more often than not referring to the issues with the tobacco.
The second issue, which is completely separate is the quality of the CONSTRUCTION. As is always true with any hand made product, there will variations from the mean that will result an poorly constructed cigar. Although, due again to high production demands, there were inexperienced rollers on the line, so there were construction problems during that time too. As for plugs, they exist. In fact, some guys won’t even order Lonsdale vitolas due to their notorious reputation. Now the problem seems to be that some smokers feel the draws are too loose, which is most likely a result of the installation of draw machines in the factories in the last couple of years.
When most people tell me that they’ve had a plugged or otherwise poor cigar from Cuba, it’s usually one or more of the following reasons. 1. It’s a fake, plain and simple most Americans haven’t had enough experience with Cuban cigars to know the difference between a fake and a real one. I can’t tell you how many guys I’ve seen get a dose of the real deal and wonder what the hell they had been buying. They, to a man, claim to have trusted their sources/friends. 2. Humidity too high. Cuban cigars should be kept, IMO, at around 63% RH. 70 is way too high, and will result in a hotter burn and taste and tighter draw. Most guys who complain about plugged cigars don’t really have a plugged cigar, they have one that’s too tight from being over humidified. If you have some Cuban cigars in your humidor and its higher than 65, drop it down to that for a couple of months, then try it again. You won’t be disappointed. Domestic cigars will do fine in 65 too. 3. Lastly, they are smoking them before their time. Although there’s lots of controversy about this, Cuban cigars go through a period where they aren’t as good. Some refer to is as the “sick” period. I have plenty of cigars that were great when I got them, then they went flat, or bitter, or the taste was just off. Wait a few months, maybe a year and they come back even better than they had started.
Despite all this I would take a Cuban cigar over a domestic every day of the week and twice on Sundays. If you'd ever spent an hour with a Mag46 or PSD4 that was "on", you'd know exaclty what I mean.
I'm not trying to start trouble here or talk down to you but if you've only smoked a couple of dozen from what is not a reliable source, I would suggest smoking quite a few more before you draw any conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by cigar no baka
Heck, I've been smoking Cuban cigars for 13 years and yes, the first few, hell even the first few boxes, I said "WTF?, What's the BIG DEAL here?" but as time has gone on, I've grown to appreciate them for what they are. I also said the same thing about the first ten or twenty Opus X I smoked, "AH, these things are overrated and aren't worth it. :smiley21: " THEN I started waiting for them to dry out BEFORE I smoked them (since the friggin cigar shops keep them too wet) and now I love them.
I concur with F.T. Pulver on the humidity level. I keep mine closer to 60% for the exact reasons he mentioned.
Regarding price, MANY great Cuban cigars can be found for less than $10.00/stick and can be found easier than a Padron 1926 or an Opus X.
Living outside the U.S. I would have to say I smoke Cubans and "Others" in about equal share and there is still a great differential between the two. While there are a lot of good non-cuban cigars, especially from the Dominician, they are simply "good" not great. The Cuban's still have a definite advantage over the rest of the world when it comes to quality, taste and construction. There could be any number of reasons for the rise of other brands, but from personal experience I still prefer my Cubans!
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Originally Posted by CoventryCat86
OK then I won't give up on Cubans, wasn't really planning to, but my access to them is very limited. I will try what someone else recommended and age them 6-12 months first. Plus they are pretty expensive and usually outside my price range, but not always.
While this may have been mentioned I could not read everything posted (sorry), but it is simple business that cigar Aficionado rates Cuban cigars mediocre. Have you paid strict attention to how much advertising Habanos SA does in cigar Aficionado's magazine being that the magazine is US based and Cuban cigars are considered contraband? My understanding is a full page add is over $50,000.00 in cA's magazine - need there be other reasons why they are constantly telling you Domincans are better cigars??
As said 99/00 was the Cubans' big mistake. It did allow the other markets to point to the quality diminishing and it provided people with the confidence to believe that non Cubans were on equal footing. Pesonally I disagree but that is just my personal taste.
Aside from the keeping up with the about to bust, "boom", the collapse of the USSR left Cuba without any backing. Areas that were otherwise not previously considered to have top notch soil for tobacco growth were seeded regardless to try to make up for the gap of income the Soviet Union's collapse created. Subsequently a substantial amount of lower standard leaf was produced and obviously was not discarded. In addition the treatment of the cigars was sped up (some say barely fermented) - all of which leveled the playing field. There was also the switch of the wrapper etc.
What is funny is most of that has long been resolved yet the same rhetoric marches on. If one likes typical Domincan cigar flavors, who am I to say otherwise. But let's not be obtuse and not realize that cigar Aficionado is not going to step on it's $100,000's contributors (per edition) to say that there is any hope for thier $0 contributors. That'll never happen and Cuban smokes will always be no better than damn good (if that).
I also find it strange that all the talent has supposedly gone to the D.R. when you tune into the rhetoric, but it took up til what maybe 4 or 5 years ago or so for a true Puro to be produced on the island. If you look around, up til that point there was no suitable wrapper leaf on the entire island and it was all imported from various other tobacco growing regions.
Che' is right on. If you look closely you will also find cigars that buy full page, double page spreads get fairly nice reviews the next month, or even the same month.
If you want to wonder something, wonder why a NC cigar never appears in Connoisseurs Corner. Funny ain't it? You'd figure with all those highly rated sticks from years past that SOME sort of NC product would have made there.
He's also right about the Cubans opening a window for NC makers to point fingers by trying to meet demand during the boom, and seeding fields with tobacco that were unsuited to grow it. Many vegas were turning out tobacco that would not have been accepted in past years, and it showed in some of their product.
Actually your wrong about that. Last Months Con. Corner featured a Fonseca 10-10 from 94 and thier have been others although few and far between.Those ratings are crap anyways. Gordon Mutt and his 1968 Monte #1 sucking on a Mojito in Downtown Havana :smiley36: I personally believe that Cuba does Produce the best Cigar Tobacco in the World. Definately Distinctive and unique to anything else. I've never enjoyed a Padron Addy or an Opus X as much as I've enjoyed a Punch Punch or a Saint luis Rey Regios. I do smoke both NC and Cubans but if I had the choice it would be almost exclusively Cuban.Quote:
Originally Posted by F.T. Pulver
I will take your word on it Thurm since I never keep any back issues if ca I can't check it out.
You're right about the ratings being crap, I LOL at your descrition of mutt chuggin down a drink (and a sweet one at that) while reviewing an aged cigar.