Alternate fuel sources

The alternate fuel sources don't look too hot right now. I thought hydrogen would be a good one, but compressed gas doesn't seem to be a viable storage method for this fuel. The best and cheapest design at this point uses (You guessed it!) hydrocarbon fossil fuels. Perhaps it will be a way to use otherwise unsuitable petroleum products for fuel, but I don't think it's the answer.

Methane might be a suitable replacement for natual gas. Vehicles are the main concern though. Methane might be able to power vehicles, but the tanks are dangerous and big. OK for personal vehicles, not so good for trucks.

Alcohol takes too much energy to distill to really be cost effective. It's also very corrosive and sensitive to humidity. It forms a solution with water.

Electric is a GREAT alternative. We have plenty of technology and experience using it. There are many sources of energy that will produce electricity cost effectively. Everything from Hydroelectric, Solar panels, geo-thermal, atomic, etc. If only we had a good way to store electrical charges. Our electric infrastucture is currently "on-demand" type generation/ It's produced as it's used and the devices using it are tethered by wires. Can you imagine the ability to capture lightning strikes and store even a small portion of the energy? Unfortunately, the most cost effective way to store energy is still the old lead acid battery from years ago. Railway's may be able to use electric right now, but individual automobiles are a different matter. Battery replacement will have significant hazardous waste also. Effective recycling would be key to this working.

Also, A LOT of products we use come from petroleum. Plastics, fertilizers, solvents, paints, etc. We would have to learn to synthesize these from some other raw materials.

Basically, at this point petroleum is the life blood of our modern civilization. I'm fearful of whether we can truly live without it.

Holy shit....


Good morning to you! I'm going to go cry in my fucking coffee.

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Originally Posted by heftysmokes

Holy shit....


Good morning to you! I'm going to go cry in my fucking coffee.

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Too serious for morning chit-chat? :smiley17:

Just something to think about over your morning cigar.

I wouldn't worry about it. Mankind is smart enough to figure it out. If anything we will just move somewhere else.

There are even theories that say fossil fuels are renewable. It makes sense, because its not like stuff stopped dying 50 million years ago.

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Originally Posted by WhiteWidow

I wouldn't worry about it. Mankind is smart enough to figure it out. If anything we will just move somewhere else.

There are even theories that say fossil fuels are renewable. It makes sense, because its not like stuff stopped dying 50 million years ago.

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Yeah, but we are using it a hell of a lot quicker than it's being created. On the bright side for fossil energy, (and the dark side for evironmentalists) there's still a shitload of coal left.

I'm confident that we will figure out an alternative. It's not like we are going to die out. People were around a long time before gasoline. I just think the solution is going to alter our lives signifiantly. You can synthesize hydrocarbons using water, carbon, and electricity. Just like you can make Browns gas (hydrogen and oxygen) using electricity. It's just very expensive to do so. As you can probably see, generating energy isn't as much of a problem as storing it stably and safely.

Imagine if we could harness the power of our own farts for fuel. I would never have to pay gasoline for the rest of my life!!

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Originally Posted by FlowerBasketExpress2005

Imagine if we could harness the power of our own farts for fuel. I would never have to pay gasoline for the rest of my life!!

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And some could power small metropolitan power grids all on their own. :smiley5: :smiley11:

Alternative plastics. I forget which university did it, but an experiment trying to derive the carbonic acids that all plastics are based off of was successful being done from plants. Essentially, given some time, this means that soy and corn will be the primary sources of all plastics, and since the US alone creates enough food each year to feed 10 Billion people, I'm sure we'll be able to spare some corn and soy.

Another research project at the University of Oregon has made bio-diesel very easy too produce. Before, it was not difficult, but inefficient in its cost. Now, with the new process, biodiesel will become very inexpensive to produce, and again, with Illinois leading the country in soy production, there'd be enough extra to go around for pure gas reasons. As I said in the truck threads, buy Diesel. All diesel engines made after 2000 or so can handle any future diesel engine. Heck, that's the point of diesel which was originally created to run on peanut oil.

Sweet, sweet candy folks, there is hope out there. Electricity as an alternative is stupid unless we develop cold fusion. Why? Because unless your power is from a nuclear power plant (environmentally problematic for other reasons), your power is most likely being produced by fossil fuels being burned.

Bio-diesel is not that good because right now it has a pretty high gel-temperature of about 40 degrees.

block heaters

Hybrids. Those will be the stop gap between the next big energy source. Not just gas-electric hybrids, but diesel-biodiesel, gas/propane-ethanol, electric-biodiesel, gasification, electric-hydrogen, etc and etc.

Ethanol is very economically viable so long as you dont use corn. Corn doesnt have nearly enough sugar, so sugar beets and sugar cane would work so much better instead. That and you need to capture every last byproduct that isnt lost to thermodynamics.

Far as non-hydrocarbon power goes I put my vote for electric. Unfortunately the fearmongering about anything with the words "nuclear" or "atomic" in them basically kills that, because that just leaves us with hydrocarbons are super high output sources.

Hydro, geo, wave, solar, wind, and any other non-poluting environmental based power source arent really good enough. They're high loss systems, especially solar, and enviro-nuts kinda kill anything good.

I have high hopes for fuel cell technology so we can run electric cars, and then hope for fusion power plants so we have plenty of electricity to power them up.

I wonder if fusion would make humans a Type 1 civilization. Energy from breaking things down and putting them together.

Check out this electric car...http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
Very expensive right now, but should come down in price as the battery technology improves. I think if this company would have simultaneously worked on producing an affordable version to sell to the masses, they would have had something really groundbreaking.

I like the bio-diesel as a transitional fuel source, but the emmissions still involved make it less desirable for long term use.

Nuclear power is the way to go for most of our energy needs, but everyone should be responsible for producing at least some of their own.
Solar power technology has improved greatly over the years, and is perfectly capable of reasonably producing enough power for the average US home.

Everybody's looking for that one great replacement for fossil fuels. In reality we'll probably need to utilize several technologies to get by.

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Originally Posted by SmokinDVM

Check out this electric car...http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
Very expensive right now, but should come down in price as the battery technology improves. I think if this company would have simultaneously worked on producing an affordable version to sell to the masses, they would have had something really groundbreaking.

I like the bio-diesel as a transitional fuel source, but the emmissions still involved make it less desirable for long term use.

Nuclear power is the way to go for most of our energy needs, but everyone should be responsible for producing at least some of their own.
Solar power technology has improved greatly over the years, and is perfectly capable of reasonably producing enough power for the average US home.

Everybody's looking for that one great replacement for fossil fuels. In reality we'll probably need to utilize several technologies to get by.

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Do you have any idea what the cost might be? I clicked on the price tag and they said it would be posted at a later date.

An estimated $85,000 base model,
Fully decked out, $130,000
First 100 sold will be special edition, fully loaded, for $100,000

Another great aspect of electrics is that if they're built properly they can be far far faster than a conventional car. 6600RPM redline on the gas motor vs 25,000RPM on the electric with more torque. Unfortunately that's a rather large electric motor and would require a rather specialised transmission and rear end, and probably be pretty expensive.

Biodiesel is a great idea, esp. when you consider how much fryer oil these is to be disposed of, and the mess disposing it makes.