we're way too trigger happy....no question that this guy started badly...but let's give him a 30 day pass to see if he meets expectations...if not...he goes...i don't like what's happening here....
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we're way too trigger happy....no question that this guy started badly...but let's give him a 30 day pass to see if he meets expectations...if not...he goes...i don't like what's happening here....
Agree... as a new guy here this whole thing kinda gets me feeling like I might have to walk on eggshells. I like the board and would hate to make a mistake and be kicked off. Let's see what happens.
It's not the fact that he made a mistake. Honestly, think about it. Your first post on the board is selling some very exclusive and expensive cigars. Then you go and insult the membership and don't offer any sort of apology or explaination??Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelby07
There is a difference between trolling becoming a member. You don't have to 'walk on egg shells'.
I don't think that friends should have to worry about what they say to each other...so Shelby07, I think you're fine. I wouldn't worry about walking on eggshells if I were you.
On the other hand, I only offered some very good and expensive cigars for best offer. I came here only because I thought you guys would appreciate them at a place like this. There is a time and place for everything and I guess I learned that this isn't the place.
How many fucking times do I have to say sorry.
Can I change my handle and start over again? FUCK.
Drew -- I realize that, but I think if everyone backs down a bit the whole thing might be diffused, and you might even find that you like the guy. Yes, he's insulted some people, but he's also been slammed from every angle. Let's all just let it go. If we all tone down a bit we will see where he's coming from.
PartagasGuy - You gotta let it go on your end, too.
cool
i took a different direction and started discussing other stuff...seems fine...he seems to have tough skin and can toss it back...are we that thin-skinned...the guy is trying to fit in..let's let him....
I can understand your POV BPP, but you're pretty much the only guy he's coddled up to.
Shelby - you didn't come into the forum and start mouthing off on your third post. PartyGas has not been treated differently in any other respect - from the perspective that he posted in the wrong area without permission.
PartyGas - honestly, you came in and innocently posted in the wrong forum without permission. And that's ok - you got some lumps, and that would have been it. You should have apologized - and then shut up for a couple days to let things cool off. The more you egg people, the more they will egg you. And the folks have here been longer and are more numerous.
You did not win brownie points with your third post comment:
followed by your fourth postQuote:
Originally Posted by PartyGas
And it went down hill from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyGas
You were warned and asked to apologize by Basil, CC, BigMac, BPP, me, Hex, BPP, Lopaka, BKC, (and that's up to post #60)...BPP @ #72....
You did not hint any remorse or apologize until (from what I see at) #153 but did it in a backhanded approach after the polling started:
Followed by:Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyGas
so when you ask after that:Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyGas
The answer is just ONCE. Without backhanded slaps, will full humility, and no smart ass remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyGas
BPP - I completely respect you as a FOG on the board - but I respectfully disagree that the board has jumped the gun - he's been given plenty of chances - and he chose the wrong fork in the road every time.
Hey 1101...I agree with you. The first 90% of my time here ended up being a clusterfuck...with me to blame. Believe me when I say that I did honestly try to apologize not long into my time here and something came across the wrong way and it backfired. Sometimes I forget that words on paper or words on a computer screen doesn't have a sound of sarcasm like a voice does. I have the same problem with a girlfriend of mine who lives in Pittsburgh...but that's for another time and another place...
Enjoy a good smoke this weekend and make it a great one!
With all due respect... imagine what might have happened if the reply to him was something different.
"PartagasGuy - thanks for letting us know about the cigars you have for sale. They are good ones.
We like to keep things a bit more compartmentalized here on this board. I've moved your thread to the appropriate forum. Take a look at the board policies that we have posted for your benefit.
Welcome to the board."
All I'm saying here is that it could have been handled differently on both sides, and I think the results would have been much different. As a new member I might be out of line, but as an old guy I like to believe I've learned a bit about tact... not always easily.
Mark
i seem to have engaged partyguy in conversation......he's responded...why don't we all cut this guy a break...realizing that we're giving him a piece of rope...my bet is he'll not hang himself.....shelby is 100% right on this call......this wasn't habano boy or some of the real asshats that have shown up here...this is a guy who tried too hard to play without reading the rules....he's fine with me....anyone other than shelby and joe with me on this call???....
Shelby - you've not been here long enough to have an opinion. You haven't even established yourself either. And CLEARLY you don't understand on how many levels Pee-boy destroyed his credibility... From selling a box of cigars he won as a prize (and wanting us to make offers - going to the highest bidder) - to taking exception to the criticism given him - to all out flaming and acting like a total ass.
Nope - Sid - I pretty much think it's just you in this quest. Pee-boy still is acting like a fool with his assinine apology "How many fucking times do I have to say sorry."
Pee-boy - One apology would have been plenty, if you would have been sincere... And you knew this point was eventually coming. You've dusted things up pretty good around here in the short time you've been posting. Seeing everyone coming out of the woodwork should have been a clue to you... :smiley2:
You sir, are a liar. You haven't apologized one time. When you say you tried to - fuck that, trying is yet another lie. You either will or you won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartagasGuy
You are a troll of the worst order and even if you do apologize, do not expect many here to welcome you.
Don't think that choosing to no longer respond to my posts has been lost on anyone. And don't think that ignoring the facts will make them go away.
Shelby, you don't have to walk on eggshells. What you do have to do is walk in the front door and bring respect to the table. Much like you have, and completely unlike this troll. Stick around and see - as much as this asshole would like others to believe, this isn't about picking on anyone. It's about preserving the integrity of the board. And yes, we do know each other. and we repect each other. And when a troll shows up, we show 'em the door.
Sid, with all due resepect, I cannot overstate how much I strongly disagree with you about this useless piece of shit. You're not pissed off. You're being pissed on and told it's raining. Just because he knows some of the same geography as you, does not mean he's not a useless fucking troll. Frankly, I'm surprised that you're still with this guy.
This is kind of what I've been afraid if. Guess it's time for me to shut up and go away too. But it is clear to me that no matter what anyone says, there are some on this board who have made up their minds and will push it forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Bigpoppapuff... I'm starting to see why you were pissed.
BTW: His handle is PartagasGuy, not Pee-boy. Tell ya anything?
See ya!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelby07
When somebody comes here and their first post is selling exclusive cigars, then they are automatically labelled an asshat until proven otherwise. I can tell he is really trying hard to prove otherwise:smiley29:
If you want to go by all means go. Sid is man enough to be pissed but not show his ass....Something you obviously can't do. He has more class than you ever will have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelby07
I respect his opinion even though I may disagree with it.
You have disrespected George...Something Sid would never do.
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. :smiley38:
that's what we need...let's just keep throwing people to the curb......i believe that many of US need to toughen up.....this is complete bullshit!!!!...
Nah, just take what gramps says, let it digest, step out of this for now, have fun talking about cigars and developing a reputation here. It's a simple concept. We don't know you and you have no rep here to be telling long time members what to do and how to do it. You simply overstepped your bounds. Take your lumps and learn from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelby07
Bah, it's partyasshat! Sheesh...Quote:
BTW: His handle is PartagasGuy, not Pee-boy. Tell ya anything?
Sid, he started off with spamming, and then when he was caught on it and called out, by me, who didn't even use any profanity, he then responded with insults and came out firing. Basil then responded with the apt analogy of someone coming into your house, laying a crap, then being called on it, and then not apologizing. I don't care if he can talk about Cleve-hole and Corky and Lenny's and Cousins (don't forget the location in Beachwood) in a civil way. The fact is he is the one who did not have a thick skin. If he did, he would have realized his mistake, apologized with a real apology, and then moved on. His skin was so thin, he just kept lashing out like a wounded animal. Read his original post and the first few responses from the beginning, you'll see that he was only ready to stir crap up after finding we wouldn't bid on the cigars he won.
I myself voted for the 30 day because I figured if he really wanted to try, he might come back and apologize, and I wanted to leave that option open. But, I know he won't. I know this because there was a 1.5-two day period when no one posted anything in his initial thread and he didn't post anything else on the board. Then, somebody revived the thread, and only at that point did he come back to post again, and this time with even more insults. Let's be honest, if he was really looking for some good convo on cigars, he would've posted in other threads during that time, but he didn't, he was absent. He only returned when he saw he could keep hurling insults. This is why I don't think he'll come back. If the attention isn't on him, he doesn't have anything to say. In other words, he's only around to stir the pot, not contribute.
Shelby, it's not about you having to leave or being on eggshells. It's a matter of knowing your place. I didn't earn my place by being here a year tomorrow. I earned it by engaging the new and current membership, by trading, herfing, and talking with these guys. Think of it like a college sports team. You may be the best player in the country at your position, but freshman year (although here it's not really a year) you're red-shirted. Why, so you can get acclimated to the team, so that come your time to shine, you'll be fully ready to play with the team as a team. This doesn't mean egg-shells, it just means being respectful to a community that has already been established. Like Smalls in the Sandlot. Like anthropologists trying to understand aboriginal communities. Like general and genuine human interaction should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelby07
Damn Ed, stop making sense man :smiley2:. If said apology ever arrives (many hours and counting) keep an eye out for 4 dudes on horses asking for directions to some kind of "seal" :smiley36:Quote:
Originally Posted by mauied1101
-W.
Nobody asked Shelby to leave. He walked through that door on his own. If he does not want to be here that is his choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelby07
I do see Bigpoppapuff's point. I don't think jumping on the new guys (gals) who haven't shown them to be asshats or trolls is the way to encourage participation, nor does it give us a reason to form a possitive opinion of you. Shelby and I are new here, our posts will eventually establish what kind of online personalities we are, but we do have opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Sometimes you need the hide of a Rhino. Everyone one has moods and opinions. I hope to see you around Shelby.
Even if PartagasGuy shapes up, it'll be along time before I have a more favorable opinion of him. I voted not to ban him, but that's not to say that my opinion won't change if he continues to act the troll and asshat. It's a little late for a sincere apology... even without backhanded slaps an apology is something that has to be volunteered, not coerced.
damn... now I need a cigar:smiley41:
Well said CG.Quote:
Originally Posted by cigargirl
I too can see BPP's point, and that of those that agree with him. But I voted to ban him and I don't feel right changing that. He had many chances early to change his way and he didn't. Now if you look at his latest posts, they're freekin dripping of sugar. Kissin' ass isn't what's required here. IMHO, it's a "Hey people, I :smiley35: ed up. Give me a chance to make good on this". If he had done that, I think the vote would never have happened.
If the majority vote to forget it or a 30 day ban, I'm cool with that. Democracy rules.
Peace.
I'm going out back to finish up my gazebo and :smiley41: .
Later!
Newf
i agree with you, sid.
I think all you have to do is read this information about trolls and then make your judgement:
LINK
This was taken from your link, and I think it fits this situation also, as well as my own experience on several BB's.Quote:
Originally Posted by illilli
I think it's sad that this BB attacks and scrutinizes "newbies" to the degree it does. I found a few good folks here that I would like to continue to converse with, but this BB's "feel" just isn't right for me. The "I can dish it out and you better just sit back and suck it up cause you're new" attitude by many here really sucks, and is kinda childish. I doubt I'll do much more than lurk here from now on.Quote:
In forums where most users are similar to each other, outsiders may be perceived as trolls simply because they do not fit into the social norms of that group. It can sometimes be difficult to distinguish between a user who merely has different values, views, or ideas, and a user who is intentionally trolling. This can lead to genuinely hostile behavior, including flame wars.
Speaking as a Newbie, I'm not sure I agree. I came in here very new to cigars. I did an introductory post telling a little about myself, but included some info about my recent trip to Cuba and what I brought back. While some of the FOG's here took a while to accept me because they were probably waiting for a post from me saying "Genuine Cuban cigars for sale". I think once they saw that wasn't my intention, I was readily accepted. If I remember correctly, you were well accepted as well because you were up front right from your first post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
Yes, there are many who get flamed early here. No doubt about it. But normally, those are the spammers and people who come here for one purpose, to unload shit at a place where it'll be easy. These are people who normally don't have anything of any value to offer.
It would be a shame for you to leave here, but that's entirely your decision.
Personally, I like it here. There's a great bunch of smokers here and for the most part, I agree with the actions of those who run the board, and the Senior FOG's. Those I don't agree with, well, it's a democratic world we live in, and you take the stuff you don't like with the stuff you do.
Peace!!
Newf.
I disagree with your assessment of this board. You have distributed some troll-like symptoms yourself, but you never once resorted to personal attacks in any way, which is to your credit. Thus, you have not been harassed or bannished. Noone has required YOU to suck it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
If you don't want to hang out here, then please just do what you have suggested; just lurk. I say this to everyone reading this, if you don't like this board and the way it works, then there are many other boards out there for you to choose from.
There is a formula for newbie success here that happens to be posted in several places. Newbies that are missing this formula are quickly pointed to it. I don't feel obligated to handle a newbie that doesn't follow that formula with "kid-gloves," or "special consideration."
Fitting in and outright making personal attacks are two very different things. If I tell you I saw your sister at the local strip clubs last week, would you consider that just not fitting in? How about if I make fun of your difference in race, sex or sexual orientation? He was a troll through and through. I can't see how some of you are embracing him. So what, he knows about a couple of sandwich shops. There is nobody forcing you to stay, and as well there is nobody trying to make you leave. I still can't believe that there are people on his side. For fuck sake, I was just joking and made a 'you're mother joke and was instantly called out publicly and was sent pms. I realized my wrong and made a public as well as personal apology, and cleaned up from there. The difference is he insulted my family, and then offered no sort of explaination or apology. He even went one step further and insulted my country among other things, and there are a few people who didn't even bat an eye. It is true that if you are new, you need to take a lot more than you dish out, but once you are known and befriend some of the membership, you know who you can start dishing it out to, and who you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
It is just like in real life. Do you walk down the street, or go into a bar and call somebody's sister a whore, then mock their home country. That would get you shot, or at least mangled in some places. Now on the other hand, you will say some pretty nasty things to a good friend just joking around, and because you know each other well enough, you can laugh at it because you know it is just a joke.
I dunno, just something to think about before you all go defending this asshole. I am not sure how some of you guys can outright defend him. I think a perm. ban was more in order, but a 30 day ban will probably serve the purpose.
ooops...forgot about SDVM....he happens to be friend of mine...one of many who i invited here...and yes,he was ganged up on.....we need to stop this gang mentality or we're doomed to failure....taking a step back before attacking might be the answer...we'll easily be able to sort out the asshats.....and the new guys don't need to impress the FOGS....if i'm not making sense here...then maybe i don't belong here...
Nobody is asking him to leave. I have yet to see somebody attacking him. He doesn't agree with the way he thinks the board is running. Not sure if I see his point there. A lot of people are acting like partagasguy is the victim here. His first post was selling expensive smokes and it just went downhill from there. He never made an attempt to fix his initial problem and the insults just made it worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
SDVM got beat up when he first when he first came here....basil and bigmac beat up partyguy before he started firing back........we have a problem here and if many of you can't see it,then we're destined for failure...
i've invited at least a dozen friends here from other bb's...and most have said they don't like the feeling here...the FOGS here don't need to be impressed by the newer guys who seem to think that they can catch an asshole before anyone else...then it goes downhill from there.....not every new poster is an asshole.....
Just my 2 cents (you'll have to do the exchange to USD). I think you are definately right in some ways... as a newb who has managed to avoid any initial controversy and also received great advice on here I might have a slightly different perspective than those of you who have been on here longer. I think there is more of a tendancy to go straight to very aggressive attacks on some newbs, some of which maybe just made an honest mistake. In PartagasGuy's case, however, he really went on a rampage insulting anyone and anything without provocation in some cases, not to mention changing what he was saying to curry opinion. Maybe there needs to be a big "Before you post" kind of a thing for newbs. Let them know what the advertising forum is for, let them know some do's n don'ts and make it part of signing up so they have NO excuse for not knowing. Maybe its already there and I missed it, or read it and filed it away so correct me if I am wrong please. Sometimes we take these things for granted because we are "too close to the paper", not everyone is internet and message board saavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
For the record, despite NEVER seeing a public apology from PartagasGuy I still voted only for 30 days. I figure, that in 30 days if he is genuine then there won't be further troubles, or he will go away because he isn't getting the attention he craves for 30 days. Time will tell....
-W.
partyguy was destroyed after his first post. Honestly, what good can come from making your first post a for sale post. He was flamed for good reason. Now, if he would have taken his lumps for his mistake right off the bat, and apologized, then everything would have been cool. Instead he too it WAY too far and started firing back on all cylinders. Yes, we have had our asshat detectors turned up a little high lately, but for good reason. In my eyes he is an asshat with abosolutely no redeeming qualities.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
You mean before you post things like these:Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/t2170-ra...tatements.html
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/t3695-newbie-advice.html
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/t2242-a-little-advice.html <----- (specifically number 2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drew_goring
it seemed to be an honest mistake...to which he admitted..basil and mac came at him and he replied in kind....i have pm's from him..he honestly shows to be an okay guy...we're way too quick with the insta-ban....i want to see this board grow..it ain't gonna happen with bullshit like this...
He may have admitted his mistake, but he did it in a backhanded way that insulted pretty much everyone. It would have just been in his best interests to just leave the thread alone and cool off for a bit. It was just like poking an open wound. Nothing good could have come from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff
Basil put it pretty bluntly and sensibly. If he would have followed this good advice, he would have made a great memeber.
To which he replied:Quote:
Originally Posted by basil
And this is just page 2???Quote:
Originally Posted by PartagasGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
Well considering the hostility of your signature there, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Good riddance. Trying to stir some shit up with that sig there eh?