Some people just love stirring the pot and getting people all riled up! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Printable View
Some people just love stirring the pot and getting people all riled up! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
I don't get it. :smiley29: Just what is this post intended to do other than "stir the pot"? Perhaps you should read more and post a bit less. I'm just sayin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish79
One of my favorite quotes by Charles Barkley - "Poor people have been voting for democrats for the last 50 years, and they're still poor."Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
The whole tax issue is laughable. The top 20% earners in the U.S. pay 83% of all federal income tax revenue. The top 1% pay 34%. Most low and middle income earners pay very little to no federal income tax, and usually get a return. The system Obama proposes won't be any better than the current system. You read a few articles by reputable experts and it's pretty obvious Obama just wanted to get low and middle income votes by his 'tax proposal'.
If anyone thinks that repubs and dems are significantly different these days, they're crazy. I don't affiliate with either side anymore. They both want bigger gov't, they both want to spend more money, they both want to continue with a foreign policy that will leave us bankrupt, and they both want to slowly take away our freedoms. I use to think my old man was crazy when he would rant about corporations ultimately controlling the gov't. The older I get the more I see that he's right. I would have voted Ron Paul all the way if he had enough money to get on the ballot.
Hey guys, take it to the politics section.
What's that? You say there is no politics section???
Hmmm, must be a reason behind that. So why don't you all give it a rest. If you want to butt heads, or measure dicks or whatever it is you think you are doing, take it to PM.
What's a matter? You get nervous when people start measuring dicks?Quote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes
That was uncalled for. Politics are STRICTLY FORBIDDEN at CS. Read the rules. This has gone on long enough!Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyman1200
Oh good grief, I'm just kidding with hefty, I have nothing against the guy...I'll stop before everyone's head blows up...
I forgot the politics rule, I apologize...
Piss off. If you had any history here you'd know politics are off limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyman1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyman1200
Fair enough.
What? No politics section??? Dadgum it - How is barry going to talk to everyone?! :smiley36:Quote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes
Thanks for letting us know!! :smiley20:Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish79
You know his (Barry's) MO. He comes in and stirs some shit but if he's ignored he usually slinks off.
Let's let him do some slinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes
I hear ya... barry's a slinky alright... :smiley36:
Yepper!! :smiley20:Quote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes
Funny, I found plenty of information very easily. Oh, I know what your problem is...first you have to look somewhere other than FOX.:smiley2:Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Quote:
Nationwide, billionaires are richer and more numerous for the second year in a row, according to Forbes magazine 2005 survey. The Forbes 400 list of the richest Americans starts at $750 million and 78 percent of them were billionaires in 2004. In the past year, 69 more Americans became billionaires, which gives the country almost half the world's billionaires. In 2004, the combined net worth of the nation's wealthiest was $1 trillion, an increase of $45 billion in one year; they increased their wealth by $300 billion providing truth to the term "the rich get richer."
At the same time, the common working person's dreams of wealth become harder to achieve. Wages for most Americans didn't improve from 1979 to 1998 and the median male wage in 2000 was below the 1979 level despite productivity increases of 44.5 percent. Despite gains made in income during the 1990s, wages are now on a downward spiral. In May, The Financial Times reported that wages are falling faster than at any time in the last 14 years. Meanwhile hidden unemployment soars as U.S. economists declare a "jobless recovery."
http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2007...ns_isaacs.aspxQuote:
Contrary to American beliefs about equality of opportunity, a child’s economic position is heavily influenced by that of his or her parents.
• Forty-two percent of children born to parents in the bottom fifth of the income distribution remain in the bottom, while 39 percent born to parents in the top fifth remain at the top.
• Children of middle-income parents have a near-equal likelihood of ending up in any other quintile, presenting equal promise and peril for those born to middle-class parents.
• The "rags to riches" story is much more common in Hollywood than on Main Street. Only 6 percent of children born to parents with family income at the very bottom move to the very top.
Now I'll "slink" off for awhile before hefty and ash get their panties bunched up any more than they are now. :smiley44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
The Pew Charitable Trust and Julia Isaac's report. That sure would be "plenty" of information...
Yep - your'e right - nothing on Fox...
Of course - Nothing on ABC, CBS...
Oh, Look! Nothing on NBC... Strange...
And - most importantly - nothing on CNN either !!!
...as a matter of fact. Aside from a few NPR stations carrying the info, it was nowhere else. Geez... I wonder why???
Hot damn...Just like old times.:smiley36:Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
Maybe I'll give it a ouple of more weeks.
I agree with you Barry on all of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
Barry, you point out that most of the "rich" inherited their money, what's wrong with that? Can you explain why you perceive this as a problem that needs to be remedied?
That is truly one thing I truly don't understand about liberalism/communism/socialism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Gents,
I like this thread. I have no interest in the politics, but you may find some useful and current information on wealth published by those who deal with the wealthy. I suggest researching such sources as Merrill Lynch/Capgemini annual wealth reports (ML is now under the umbrella of Bank of America), Goldman Sachs wealth management division, and possibly Credit Suisse private banking. For starters, a quick google search returned the following: http://www.ml.com/media/79882.pdf
It is difficult to respond to an assertion that most wealthy individuals have inherited their money without first defining wealth. I know a few self-made millionaires. None inherited a significant sum from his family. Not one considers himself "wealthy."
It seems, too, that we tend to restrict our thinking to the sphere in which we travel; specifically, we think in terms of wealth in North America. A great deal of wealth and riches have been created around the globe due to the commodity boom/bust and very inexpensive credit. Just my 0.02.
I suspect there was not a LOT of research put into his theory about inherited wealth...
Per Forbes (in its dicussion of the worlds 400 richest people):
Link to the Forbes articleQuote:
Two-thirds of the members of The Forbes 400 have fortunes that are entirely self-made, while only 19% of the group inherited their entire fortunes.
Which leads me back to the original hypothesis put forward by my grandfather (as salty as he was)...
If you strip the wealthy and distribute it evenly - what it took to be a billioniare does not change. The billionaire will use his business saavy and prowess to again become a billionaire - most likely off of the person who does not possess that same skillset. Contrary to what some like Julia Issacs may say - history has repeatedly taught us - it more truly about passion, and much less about "silver spoons"...
Why was I scolded for discussing politics? Is this a privilege for senior members only?
I think a discussion about wealth and how one gets it isn't necessarily a discussion of politics and I'm hopeful those who weigh in won't lead it back that way.
George, I'm pretty sure I read your Grandpa's theory elsewhere but it was attributed to J. Paul Getty.
...and here all these years I thought it was that wiley grandpa of mine... It also explains why barry thought it to be an ignorant statement. :smiley36:Quote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes
Long story, Arty - and I really do not have the time nor inclination to detail it here. Suffice it to say - and you're going to have to trust the community a bit on this - it is best not to discuss politics on this board. :smiley2:
They don't allow Democrats in Eastern Tennessee, do they?:smiley36:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyman1200
Everyone knows that the creation of wealth comes from reading "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"! :smiley21:
They're allowed, they just don't want to be here...there's plenty of ignorance to go around.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryCat86
Oh yes, the forbes list. You do realize that the only thing that was used to qualify as inherited money was for those people to have gained ALL of it without working for themselves. The vast majority still come from old money, they just have interests of their own also. So, just because someone has a job title, doesn't mean they didn't get it due to their family social status, or that most of their money didn't come directly from inheritance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Lets use your favorite politician as an example. Old dumbya wouldn't have made 2 cents if it wasn't for his family money and status. He never would have been accepted to ANY major college in the U.S., something about him being a complete idiot.
You need to reread the entire thread, but let me paraphrase.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryCat86
gg said that rich people were rich because they had some innate ability to make money, and I said that that was a pile of bs. Most rich people are rich because they had the advantage of social status and wealth without really having to work for it.
Take a rich mans money and social connections away, and at the same time take someone from the opposite socioeconomic position and do the same. The ex-rich guy will be totally lost. And the other guy...just another day in paradise.
...I guess you missed the part about "entirely self made".Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
...and I'm quite sure you have something to support your assertion that Mr. Bush would not have been accepted at ANY major college and had to rely on his family's wealth to survive. A NPR broadcast, no doubt! :smiley36:
Your example is very telling, though - it gets to the heart of a conspiracy I know you would like us to buy into - that our industry leaders - and EVEN the President of the United States are part of the "good ol' boy" welath passed between generations club. If you're not a member - you will not succeed. :smiley29:
Sorry, barry - go back and do your homework. Your "theory" doesn't flesh out. If you read the list of names in the Forbes 400 - there are no doubt a few with inherited wealth, while the majority of billionaires on that list made their money the plain ol' fashioned way - they earned it... :smiley2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
Oh poor, poor barry...
Ok - Let us paraphrase what was said in this thread...
- You said my grandfather's observations on redistribution of wealth (take it away from the rich - give it to the poor - yada yada) were "ignorant".
- Heftysmokes corrected me - my grandfather's theory should be properly attributed to J. Paul Getty.
- So - by default I suppose - you called Mr. Getty "ignorant".
...there's something about J. Paul Getty I just can't put my finger on... Hmmm... "self made"? :smiley2:
The latest "theory" on the table was that Bush is only "wealthy" because of his family's "wealth". He would not have been wealthy otherwise because he was too "dumb" to be wealthy because he couldn't go to college without his parents money? :smiley36:
:smiley29:
Not entirely...the family was in the oil business and was doing well before J. Paul came along. J. Paul amassed a fortune through his own industry, but the foundation of that fortune was built on his family's money.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Edit to add:
From Wikipedia...
Getty wrote a very successful book entitled How to Be Rich. Note that it was not How to Get Rich. His oil business was handed to him by his father, who started the business.
Getty acknowledges this in his autobiography:
I enjoyed the advantage of being born into an already-wealthy family, and when I began my business career I was subsidized by my father. While I did make money—and quite a bit of it—on my own, I doubt if there would be a 'Getty Empire' today if I had not taken over my father's thriving oil business after his death. (Getty, 1976, pg.336).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
You couldn't just make your argument without throwing this in could you? That, and not your political views, is why you're a douchebag.
Leopards and spots. :smiley43:
How did Obama become powerful when his parents aren't wealthy? That doesn't make sense. Didn't George W. Bush get better grades then John Kerry at school - the same school - at about the same time? How did John Kerry become wealthy? He's spent almost his entire adult life as a public servant. Kerry's daddy wasn't rich, but oh wait, he married into wealth.
Ok I gotta try and stop talking politics I'll go on for hours.
I saw that movie. Dan Aykroyd/Eddie Murphy - Trading Places. Classic. But still a movie like the Terminator and Space Balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
On wealth - c'mon. We're not wealthy? We're on a computers, talking about cigars, living in America. Most of us probably drive cars and live in houses. We all probably have TVs. I personally have two very nice 19" big tube color TVs. Our daddy's didn't give us all this wealth. I drive through Washington DC every day where they use homeless people as speed bumps. I feel extremely lucky for what I have and worked hard for. Don't take that away from me by saying I must of had rich parents. We need to stop arguing semantics about who's the uber rich and middle class. That's class warfare. Rich people don't think they're rich. They just know they've worked hard for what they got. Where is the line to rich? Who makes too much money. We make what we're worth. And those that inherit it - if they don't deserve it they'll lose it. Like the Powerball winners who are broke in a year. Those that deserve it will earn it. Donald Trumps been bankrupt a couple of times - he's just too stubborn to be poor. Do not covet thy neighbors possessions or something like that. I feel take care of you're own self and the rest will work itself out.
But hey - c'mon. We're not going to change anyone's minds here. We came to talk smoke - right?
Yeah.....what a bunch of bullshit. I have no need for your condescending "we are all wealthy" shit. I have no need for "life lessons" and class definitions or any other such "can't we all get along" crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by knightnorth
When you typed the last sentence in your post, you should have realized the pointless nature of everything before it. Unless of course you're just trollin'. In which case we'll know soon enough.
George said it earlier:
My advice is to take his wisdom to heart and read some previous posts by the members in this thread. Then make a decision if you want to involve yourself in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
:smiley44: those shit-stained fuckers must be knotted up real tight. :smiley44:Quote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes
I knew there would be those here too ignorant to understand a simple fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Getty a self made man :smiley29::smiley36::smiley36:
And I'd bet none of those billionaires on forbes list had help from any family money or name either. :smiley8:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...eu26heuf_l.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by heftysmokes