Vitola Profiling

When I first started smoking cigars, it was explained to me that I could smoke all of the sizes of a particular blend, and, to the trained palate, each cigar would taste different, simply because of the size of the cigar. I don't doubt this. I know several members of this board have posted how they prefer certain vitolas over other for reasons of time, personal preference, etc.

But my question is if a certain vitola always provides a certain taste profile of a specific cigar. For example, what makes a lancero a more preferable size over a toro? A belicoso over a churchill? or a perfecto over a robusto?

I'm interested in what input you have to provide. Thanks.

One school of tthought is that the wrapper provides a very high percentage of the flavor you experience. Therefore, a cigar with a higher wrapper to filler ratio, (petite corona, lancero), would have more defined flavor compared to a robusto or torpedo.


I have found this to be true, at least in my opinion, with a few brands. Most notably with Oliva Serie V.

Perfectos, following that theory, seem to have a more dimensional flavor profile, since that ratio is constantly changing.

I agree with Dennis, and would add the Tat Havana VI and LG double ligero lines to the Oliva V.

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Originally Posted by bigwhiteash

One school of tthought is that the wrapper provides a very high percentage of the flavor you experience. Therefore, a cigar with a higher wrapper to filler ratio, (petite corona, lancero), would have more defined flavor compared to a robusto or torpedo.


I have found this to be true, at least in my opinion, with a few brands. Most notably with Oliva Serie V.

Perfectos, following that theory, seem to have a more dimensional flavor profile, since that ratio is constantly changing.

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Interesting. Thanks.

Slightly changing the topic of the thread, what other characteristics would make a cigar change taste while smoking? Aside from the vitola? If the wrapper dictates the flavor, and it's the same ring gauge throughout, what would cause a flavor change?

Mrtr 33 thanks for this thread never thought of the ratio between wrapper and filler that btw brought up. this is kind of stuff noobs like me need to learn.and so much more to learn from you'll thanks.

To confound the issue, some cigarmakers change the blend to compensate for differences in ring. For example, Habanos excludes ligero in narrow-ring cigars.

One can also play with the placement of the filler leaves within the cigar - although, AFAIK, this is only done in perfectos.

Usually a fatter ring gauge will have a milder profile. From what I understand, this is because the larger girth makes the leaf burn slower, hence cooler.

As for the taste profile changing, I could guess that different tobaccos react differently as the cigar heats up and the oils build in the cigar from the heat. I'd guess it's due to the cigar itself changing as it's smoked, not the tobacco leaf being different in parts of the cigar. If this is true, then Cuban leaf seems to be more susceptible to the effects of the burn, hence they are more "complex." Not sure about this one, but it seems to make sense.

EDIT: after thinking about this for a little bit, it occurs to me that this would also explain why certain blends or puros taste better at different humidities.

Again, I'm just surmising things here... I will defer to those who know more than I.

Double-Figuardo's around 6x48/54/48 :smiley20:

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Originally Posted by craig

To confound the issue, some cigarmakers change the blend to compensate for differences in ring. For example, Habanos excludes ligero in narrow-ring cigars.

One can also play with the placement of the filler leaves within the cigar - although, AFAIK, this is only done in perfectos.

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I was thinking someone said that before...now I'm sure.

I was just emailing Irish79 the other day that I notice different flavors / body between different sizes of the same line. He was basically asking the same question. So, I agree that this happens.

Edit: This is also why I think its important to list the size for a review.

Will

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Originally Posted by craig

To confound the issue, some cigarmakers change the blend to compensate for differences in ring. For example, Habanos excludes ligero in narrow-ring cigars.

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This is done in the Cabaiguan line - the Guapo being a stronger cigar than the others due to a different blend.

I think they came out and said is was different - marketed it as differrent; a limited run?

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Originally Posted by DeeDubya

Double-Figuardo's around 6x48/54/48 :smiley20:

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Were you pointing this size out as an ideal taste-changing smoke?

Something else I was wondering was the length of a cigar of a consistent ring gauge. I have been told that the cigar acts as a filter, with the tars of the smoke being sucked through the length of the cigar throughout smoking. This would lead me to think that by the end of the cigar, not only are you tasting the wrapper, but any residue that has built up within the filler leaves. Any truth to that? Could that cause taste to change throughout a cigar?

I have noticed that I normally get the most amount of flavor out of a cigar at about the 3 - 4 inch range. Other smokers I know enjoy the taste at about that size as well. I guess it has something to do with the engineering of the cigar, that allows for optimal taste and amount of smoke, at just the perfect size. One can only assume that this contributed to the creation of shorter cigars (NUB comes to mind immediately).

Do you agree with this? I guess I do, but I still like my larger cigar sizes. I still enjoy churchills, still enjoy toros and even gordos. But I'm starting to take more notice of taste vs. size, and would like to know what you all think about this.

Thanks for reading.

The NUB is a marketing gimmick imho.

Yes, tar builds up in the leaves as you smoke a cigar. With some you can see this build up in the end of the cigar, and yes, I believe that this contributes to the "development" in flavor during smoking. I have seen photos and read of instances of the tar-build up at the head of some cigars being extreme, but I have never experienced any that I couldn't deal with.

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Originally Posted by ashauler

The NUB is a marketing gimmick imho.

Yes, tar builds up in the leaves as you smoke a cigar. With some you can see this build up in the end of the cigar, and yes, I believe that this contributes to the "development" in flavor during smoking. I have seen photos and read of instances of the tar-build up at the head of some cigars being extreme, but I have never experienced any that I couldn't deal with.

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I nearly always use a v-cutter for all but torpedos, etc. and I have noticed on some of the heavy bodied cigars a build-up of tar on the "lips" of the v-notch. I think that is a point of condensation where the vaporized tar meets a cooler medium.

I guess that's better than it building up on your teeth.

It's interesting that the consensus seems to be that larger ring gauges are milder. I've read the exact opposite, with the rationale being that there is more tobacco smoldering at a time in larger gauges. I don't have the experience to say what I think one way or another. I also recently read that wrapper color only accounts for 3% of overall flavor...no idea how that was "calculated."

I can see how a larger ring gauge would lead to a cooler smoke and more mild flavors, however, I have found that the Nubs seem to burn hot amd the smoke never seems to be very cool. I have been enjoying the corona size in several different Illusione's and I have found that they have been burning pretty cool. I think I've got it all backwards!

I would agree with previous posts, that it all depends on what you personally like. I really enjoy bigger ring gauges in some lines and smaller ring gauges in others.

BTW, I didn't mind the Nubs at first, decent smoke but nothing to rave about and I didn't smoke too many of them, but now, I can't stand them. Funny how my tastes are changing. It's all because of that slope or cliff or straight free-fall!

I think there is a difference between the effect of ring and the effect of length. Smoke a longer cigar, and the temperature of the smoke hitting your mouth is going to be lower.

Taste is also affected by smoking technique and cigar construction (and phases of the moon, and ... :smiley1:)

As for the 3% - IIRC, it comes from Cohiba (Cuba). However, I suspect this is a bit of marketing hype to stop people from opening boxes and boxes, looking for the cigars with the darkest wrappers (because Cubans put cigars in boxes by wrapper colour). I suspect that the actual percentage of flavour depends on the blend and the wrapper used. For example, Cohiba uses very thin shade-grown wrapper to get that ultra-uniform "silky" appearance that doesn't even look like a leaf. Stands to reason that a Cohiba's wrapper wouldn't have a huge effect on flavour. OTOH, shade-grown wrappers or (obviously) maduro-processed wrappers are going to have a much bigger effect on flavour.

Hi every body
excuse me for my englsih , i'm french
so i'm french madden player , i love this game
but i try to increase my level in this game.

is it cool to buy this season pass ?

it's a bad question but i try to have comment to know if this pass is very good ... i read a lot of comment about this but i want to increase my defense

thank you very much

No. 7,293 why I can't stand the French...

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Originally Posted by fotnixult

Hi every body
excuse me for my englsih , i'm french
so i'm french madden player , i love this game
but i try to increase my level in this game.

is it cool to buy this season pass ?

it's a bad question but i try to have comment to know if this pass is very good ... i read a lot of comment about this but i want to increase my defense

thank you very much

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foxnuts is a spambot, and needs to be banned and his sig tag deleted.

Now, back to bashing that hapless "I-wish-I-was-French-right-now" DingleDongle

Fhat the Wuck???

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Originally Posted by fotnixult

Hi every body
excuse me for my englsih , i'm french
so i'm french madden player , i love this game
but i try to increase my level in this game.

is it cool to buy this season pass ?

it's a bad question but i try to have comment to know if this pass is very good ... i read a lot of comment about this but i want to increase my defense

thank you very much

---

J'aime la publicité sur Internet inutile, spammeur.

:smiley32: I don't even know what you said there ashauler but I'm impressed all the same! Not to take anything away from the information you can get from CS but theres a TON of information at JR Cigars website http://www.jrcigars.com/index.cfm?page=cigar_university That has definitely helped me out a lot and broadened my understanding of how this whole cigar thing works.