Sticks unwrapping

Printable View

06-09-2011, 02:51 AM
hed

Sticks unwrapping

Two weeks ago I moved from Arkansas (high RH @ 1400' ASL) to Montana (low RH @ 4800' ASL). My hygrometer (calibrated 6 weeks ago and again last week) has consistently read 70% at both locations. However, the last several sticks I've smoked have burned poorly and started unwrapping. It seems that they are good when I pull them from my humidor but dry out and start unwrapping before I get half-way through smoking them. My initial thought is to increase humidity. I'm hoping there are some Bozeman, MT members out there that have dialed-in a good temp/RH for this area.
06-09-2011, 08:03 AM
ashauler

There's a guy from Billings on here, but I think he keeps his cigars in his sock drawer. :smiley36:
I would suspect "over" humidification rather than under. If the cigar appears to swell, the wrapper cracks and unravels, then the interior of the cigar is more moist than the wrapper, and when it heats up during smoking it expands and puts pressure on the wrapper.............and, well, there you go.

An under-humidified cigar would burn fast and hot, and unraveling would not be the problem, at least in my experience.

I try to keep my cigars between 60-65 % rh. YMMV
06-09-2011, 08:05 AM
badwhale

They could be Gurkha perfectos...
06-09-2011, 08:27 AM
ashauler

Quote:

Originally Posted by badwhale

They could be Gurkha perfectos...

LOL, or perhaps Argenitinia reverse rolls. :smiley3: :smiley2:
06-09-2011, 08:43 AM
craig

Banded upside down, you mean. ;-)

OP: It could take two or three months for the cigars to adjust to the higher altitude, and you might want a higher RH reading at that altitude as well.
06-09-2011, 03:06 PM
hed

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashauler

There's a guy from Billings on here, but I think he keeps his cigars in his sock drawer. :smiley36:
I would suspect "over" humidification rather than under. If the cigar appears to swell, the wrapper cracks and unravels, then the interior of the cigar is more moist than the wrapper, and when it heats up during smoking it expands and puts pressure on the wrapper.............and, well, there you go.

An under-humidified cigar would burn fast and hot, and unraveling would not be the problem, at least in my experience.

I try to keep my cigars between 60-65 % rh. YMMV

Hmmm, that sounds like a very plausible theory. I don't see any swelling, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They do seem to be burning slow and cool though.

Another clue is that the only sticks I'm having an issue with are those that have been in the box for more than two or three weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig

Banded upside down, you mean. ;-)

OP: It could take two or three months for the cigars to adjust to the higher altitude, and you might want a higher RH reading at that altitude as well.

My original thought was that it was probably an altitude issue. I usually buy online and until they got to me in AR, and now here in MT, they have likely spent their entire lives at or below 400' ASL.

While waiting on the arrival of my Heartfelt beads, I'm thinking I may try taking a couple sticks out of the box a day before smoking and see how they do. I'm assuming they'll all recover once I find the right combination of RH, temp and time. Humidity and temp I can control; altitude, not so easy. If time acclimating to the altitude is the problem, I may have to invest in a small wineador to accomodate a larger stash. I've been considering doing that anyway. Sounds like good rationale to me!:smiley2:
06-09-2011, 04:49 PM
mrtr33

I would think any kind of drastic change in temperature could affect them adversely. I'd personally try to maintain the same humidity (whatever that may be). I also might just buy smokes from a local shop in the mean time, only smoking from the stash every once in a while to see how they were doing.

Is it predominantly one brand/blend of a cigar you're noticing this with?
06-09-2011, 05:42 PM
hed

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtr33

I would think any kind of drastic change in temperature could affect them adversely. I'd personally try to maintain the same humidity (whatever that may be). I also might just buy smokes from a local shop in the mean time, only smoking from the stash every once in a while to see how they were doing.

Is it predominantly one brand/blend of a cigar you're noticing this with?

Other than one of the days driving (11 days ago) when the temp in my truck was probably in the 90's, I maintain an indoor temp in the low 70's. My everyday-smokes have been in there for about two weeks and have no issues. Since moving, I've tried and had issue with three of the five other brands I have (in the humi for 4-8 weeks). I haven't decided if I want to take the chance of trying the others before employing a possible "fix" to the situation.

Update: My half-smoked everyday stick is unwrapping. So, since moving, I've tried several sticks each of four of the six brands that I have; all with issue.
06-09-2011, 06:50 PM
nhcigarfan

I'm going with overly moist. That's when I have the problem. Unless it's always at the cap. Then you might just be cutting too low for that brand.
06-09-2011, 07:18 PM
hed

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhcigarfan

I'm going with overly moist. That's when I have the problem. Unless it's always at the cap. Then you might just be cutting too low for that brand.

I'm leaning overly moist too. I'm definitely not cutting too low though. I just ordered some 60% beads.

I appreciate all the input.
06-09-2011, 07:24 PM
nhcigarfan

60% is good. I keep my current rotation at 60% or so and my storage stuff at 65. I used to store at 70 but it takes too long to rest them down to where I want them when I get the itch. :smiley37:
06-09-2011, 07:53 PM
hed

Great plan!
06-10-2011, 01:49 PM
hed

I left the humi open yesterday. The ambient RH is 53%. Not sure how long it takes the RH in the sticks to lower, but smoking another now and it draws and burns well but deffinitely swells and destroys the wrapper.
06-10-2011, 02:35 PM
ashauler

Quote:

Originally Posted by hed

I left the humi open yesterday. The ambient RH is 53%. Not sure how long it takes the RH in the sticks to lower, but smoking another now and it draws and burns well but deffinitely swells and destroys the wrapper.

Try dry-boxing the sticks you're going to smoke for a few hours.....maybe a day or so. It should help while your humi/sticks are stabilizing at a lower RH.
06-10-2011, 03:08 PM
hed

Without the wrapper it looks like I'm sucking on a decaying corpse's finger.:smiley11:
06-10-2011, 08:15 PM
hed

FYI: Open humi for about 24 hours and there is a definite sign of improvement. Ambient RH is 53% inside and 48% outside. Wrapper still cracks slightly on my everyday-sticks but stays intact. More expensive sticks were affected earlier so I assume they'll take longer to recover. New 60% beads should arrive early next week; good timing for humidity level but I assume will require additional time to relax at new RH. MT certainly requires a lower RH than AR, but I suspect the higher altitude lowers it even further. It's looking like everything will be back under control. Thank you all.
06-17-2011, 05:04 PM
hed

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhcigarfan

60% is good. I keep my current rotation at 60% or so and my storage stuff at 65. I used to store at 70 but it takes too long to rest them down to where I want them when I get the itch. :smiley37:

How long does it take your storage stash to get from 65 to 60 once put into rotation? After 4 days with the 60% beads I'm at about 67%. My everyday smokes seem to be doing a little better so I'm trying to stick with them as much as possible until the others stabalize. Trying a Partagas now though and it is still splitting the wrapper.
06-17-2011, 05:38 PM
nhcigarfan

When I pulled cigars from 70% and put them in my 60% for smoking I usually left them for two months.

From 65 to 60 usually is about 10 to 14 days. But any of those RH's should't end up cracking the wrapper. It's more of a draw thing for me. Let them sit for a week at anywhere from 65% to 60% and you should be good to go.
06-29-2011, 11:02 PM
hed

Well, after a couple days of using the 60% beads, the rh went down to 67%. In more than two weeks, the lowest it got was 66%. The ambient rh here in MT is usually in the 40s or 50s so I've been using the beads dry to absorb the excess moisture. I'm wondering if the beads I'm using were labeled incorrectly.

The smokes are still hit or miss. The Connecticut-wrapped are doing better than the Cameroons, but not much. Maybe I'm just being too impatient. Perhaps I need to bury them until next year and see how they fare. Regardless, I still have to get the rh down. How accurate are the Heartfelt beads?
06-29-2011, 11:13 PM
badwhale

Quote:

Originally Posted by hed

Well, after a couple days of using the 60% beads, the rh went down to 67%. In more than two weeks, the lowest it got was 66%. The ambient rh here in MT is usually in the 40s or 50s so I've been using the beads dry to absorb the excess moisture. I'm wondering if the beads I'm using were labeled incorrectly.

The smokes are still hit or miss. The Connecticut-wrapped are doing better than the Cameroons, but not much. Maybe I'm just being too impatient. Perhaps I need to bury them until next year and see how they fare. Regardless, I still have to get the rh down. How accurate are the Heartfelt beads?

You seem to be having an extraordinary epidemic. Cameroon is a fragile wrapper. I mean, I run about 66-67 and mine are smoking ok.

What cigars are they?

Will
06-29-2011, 11:56 PM
hed

Quote:

Originally Posted by badwhale

You seem to be having an extraordinary epidemic. Cameroon is a fragile wrapper. I mean, I run about 66-67 and mine are smoking ok.

What cigars are they?

Will

Starting to split after x% smoked:

Arturo Fuente Chateau Fuente Sun Grown (after 5%)
Partagas Robusto (25%)
Gispert Robusto (50%)
Flor De Oliva 6 X 50 (50%)
Trinidad Toro Natural (0%)

I have 5 sticks of a 10 stick sampler that I bought the same time as the Olivas. The five I smoked had no issues (other than the Final Blend Robusto which was so tight I could barely get it lit; I threw it out after 5 minutes).
09-08-2011, 09:06 PM
hed

Well, I've had my wineador going for a few months now (GolfNut did a great job building the trays I designed). The stablized temp and rh (66-68/65%) eventually got most of my smokes to behave themselves. The only exception are the AF Chateu Fuente Sungrowns. I have other Cameroon-wrapped smokes but the AFs are the only ones that continue giving me trouble. I only have one left so not a big deal. I've already found many good replacement smokes. Thanks for the input guys; you've helped save some good soldiers.
11-10-2011, 07:27 PM
hed

I appreciate all the input from you guys on this subject. Lowering my rh definitely made a difference but not completely. I touched on the subject with Paddy after receiving a newb sampler from him. After providing him with a few additional details, I think he nailed what I was doing wrong. So far, I've noticed a difference with no splitting, cooler burn, and even better taste. Time will tell, but I'm feeling confident. Here's Paddy's take:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy

I think I just might have figured out what your problem is. The triple torch lighter gave it away.
There is an art to lighting a cigar. A triple torch makes it difficult to do. I believe you are making a cherry far too deep into the cigar and the hot air & gases are causing your cigar to split. Use a single flame torch, run it clockwise around the rim (create something that looks like an eclipse of the sun; a ring of fire around the rim). Blow on it, then light the filler; run the flame clockwise around the filler and then blow on it to create a good cherry. NEVER LET THE FLAME TOUCH THE TOBACCO! Hold it a few inches away. Lighting a cigar should take 2-3 minutes, not 30 seconds. Then put the cigar in your mouth hit it again quickly with the torch (again, do not let the flame touch the cigar). Remove it and blow on the cherry again. NOW smoke it.

When you are over lighting a cigar (blow-torching the filler, or pushing the flame into the filler), you create a cherry that is further into the cigar than it should be (lets say .5-1 inches as opposed to .25-.5). That large cherry stays even after the light is over. Thus, your filler is burning further down the lenght of the cigar than the wrapper and binder. Again all that hot air and gases need to go somewhere.......split wrappers
11-10-2011, 07:43 PM
heftysmokes

Quote:

Originally Posted by hed

I appreciate all the input from you guys on this subject. Lowering my rh definitely made a difference but not completely. I touched on the subject with Paddy after receiving a newb sampler from him. After providing him with a few additional details, I think he nailed what I was doing wrong. So far, I've noticed a difference with no splitting, cooler burn, and even better taste. Time will tell, but I'm feeling confident. Here's Paddy's take:

Sounds pretty logical. Just took someone to look at it from a different perspective.
11-10-2011, 10:05 PM
ashauler

Quote:

Originally Posted by heftysmokes

Sounds pretty logical. Just took someone to look at it from a different perspective.

Or be drunk. :smiley2:
11-11-2011, 04:07 AM
Paddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashauler

Or be drunk. :smiley2:

That too ! :smiley15:
11-11-2011, 10:22 PM
hed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy

That too ! :smiley15:

The key word there is "too". I've been juiced plenty, but to no avail. Experience + juice, must = success.:smiley33:
11-11-2011, 11:15 PM
bigbill1300

Quote:

Originally Posted by heftysmokes

Sounds pretty logical. Just took someone to look at it from a different perspective.

Nice post Paddy,I learn something new every day. Thank's for the great info!!!:smiley20:
11-11-2011, 11:35 PM
steffanan

I'm in Sidney mt, and i just use the 70% pg solution in a xikar travel case at room temperature, everything works great.