the hero is the gun...

2 pals get high, get pistol & gun each other down





Two men who were fatally shot in Brooklyn on Thursday night managed to kill each other with the same gun, police said yesterday.
Kenny Berry, 27, and Jon Shuler, 20, were smoking marijuana in a vacant first-floor apartment in Crown Heights when they got into an argument - the latest of many between the pair - over a small amount of money, police said.

An enraged Shuler left the St. Marks Ave. building just before 9 p.m., only to return minutes later with a handgun. He pumped several bullets into Berry's chest, a witness told police. The mortally wounded Berry managed to grab the gun from Shuler and shoot him once in the stomach before collapsing, police said. Shuler then staggered outside and fell to the ground.

The witness called 911, and both wounded men were rushed to local hospitals - Berry to Kings County, Shuler to St. John's Episcopal - where each died within three hours, police said.

That's a good one. :smiley20: Dumbasses reach new heights daily. :smiley36:

I like how they emphasize that marijuana was being smoked, like its the pots fault the guys were dumb asses.

Yeah, pot didnt make them do it. I'v smoked alot of pot and I'v only shot a few people... numbers dont lie man. :smiley36:

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Originally Posted by hex1848

I like how they emphasize that marijuana was being smoked, like its the pots fault the guys were dumb asses.

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Not saying the pot was 100% at fault...But when you mix pot, alcohol, ect with dumbass the result usually is one of those "Watch This" episodes. :smiley3:

That is one for the Darwin Award page. LOL

Hey, just a great way of thinning out the population!

Do ya think they'll be missed ???

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Originally Posted by Bkcloud114

Do ya think they'll be missed ???

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yeah,by their dealer.....thinning of the herd continues!!!!...

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Originally Posted by Bkcloud114

Do ya think they'll be missed ???

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What the hell kind of statement is that? Just because someone does something that is illegal in this country does not mean they dont have friends, family- people that love them. The guy that shot the guy first was pretty sorry, but what are you blaming the second guy for? Defending himself? Thats almost as bad as people talking about the war in Iraq with statments like "we should just bomb the whole country, nobody would miss them anyway".

will they be missed??.....two pieces of shit gone....less problem for the police.....

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Originally Posted by TheSilentChamber

Yeah, pot didnt make them do it. I'v smoked alot of pot and I'v only shot a few people... numbers dont lie man. :smiley36:

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What kind of ignorant post is this? If you take leave here you won't be missed. :smiley37:


Think about it...Two guys smoking pot in a vacant apartment with a gun present. They aren't the friendly type. WTF were they up to...Getting high before doing a robbery? Getting high before they rape your wife? Little different scenerio that you smoking a blunt with your buds and watching a movie.

I live in a world where reality comes home on a daily basis. The reality is these guys were an ozing sore on the butt of society. Maybe you would like to party with them!!

One thing for sure...Society won't miss them.

Society doesnt miss anyone - wiether they are great or scum. To society there is no individual, and without indiviualism there is no true emotion. You can see someone in the media every day for twenty years, they get shot. You remember it, you connect with it on a basis of it is someone that you are familiar with though non personal interaction. You may miss them from a entertainment or leadership aspect, but unless you accually knew the person you wont miss them in a personal aspect.

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

Think about it...Two guys smoking pot in a vacant apartment with a gun present.

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They actually didn't have the handgun present; the article says one guy left and returned with the handgun. That makes me think they were just stupid kids getting high.

They were 20 and 27..Not really kids. Chances are if you pull up their rap sheet you will see a lot of history.

People that hang out in vacant buildings, smoke dope and posess firearms...Well it's easy to figure out.

Am i reading this right Silent Chamber talking about how people feel .Have you turned over a new leaf? :smiley36:

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

They were 20 and 27..Not really kids. Chances are if you pull up their rap sheet you will see a lot of history.

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Being 27 doesn't make you mature. My guess is he probably has about the mindset of a 15 year old.

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People that hang out in vacant buildings, smoke dope and posess firearms...Well it's easy to figure out.

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This actually sounds a lot like my brother-in-law. He's like 23, lives in his mother's house with his wife and kids, doesn't take a damn bit of responsibility, smokes dope on a daily basis, and really thinks he's a big tough guy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he would someday manage to get a gun just to look tough. And if he found a vacant apartment, he'd think it was the greatest place in the world to smoke dope. And when you're high, things like shooting your best friend make total sense (I once sat on the steps of a pub in Amsterdam, unable to determine which voices were real and which were fake).

Point is, he's an idiot, but he certainly wouldn't be hatching some plot to rob a bank or something out of a Dick Tracy novel. Pardon my saying so, but it's a bit ignorant to make a bunch of assumptions about a couple kids based on a couple lines from a newspaper article. It's really not that different to say "they smoke dope and have access to a handgun so they must be criminals" than to say "they were black, so they must be criminals".

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Originally Posted by SuperChuck

Being 27 doesn't make you mature. My guess is he probably has about the mindset of a 15 year old.


This actually sounds a lot like my brother-in-law. He's like 23, lives in his mother's house with his wife and kids, doesn't take a damn bit of responsibility, smokes dope on a daily basis, and really thinks he's a big tough guy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he would someday manage to get a gun just to look tough. And if he found a vacant apartment, he'd think it was the greatest place in the world to smoke dope. And when you're high, things like shooting your best friend make total sense (I once sat on the steps of a pub in Amsterdam, unable to determine which voices were real and which were fake).

Point is, he's an idiot, but he certainly wouldn't be hatching some plot to rob a bank or something out of a Dick Tracy novel. Pardon my saying so, but it's a bit ignorant to make a bunch of assumptions about a couple kids based on a couple lines from a newspaper article. It's really not that different to say "they smoke dope and have access to a handgun so they must be criminals" than to say "they were black, so they must be criminals".

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I live in a world where I deal with people like that on a daily basis so I am not ignorant on the subject. I often go into vacant houses and apartments to arrest criminals of all kinds. most of em smoke dope...Which is a crime.. They also are trespassing which is a crime, and 75% of them have access to a firearm. This is in addition to the outstanding charges I am looking to find them on. Just what kind of folks do you believe hang out in these places?

Sounds like in your statement being high is a defense to shooting one's friend. That statment is flawed in the worst manner. If smoking dope makes that kind of thing acceptable in ones mind...Why do it?

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...It's a bloody duck.

By the way, I make no assumptions of people by race creed or color. I base my opinion of people by their actions. You made an assumption based on no knowledge about the twenty seven year old having the mind of a fifteen year old. Well for what it's worth I have seen some fifteen year olds with a criminal mind that you would not believe.

in addition...crown heights isn't the best area of NYC...and the part of crown heights that they were in was worse....

to defend these pieces of shit is amazing to me...they were fucking warts....

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

Two guys smoking pot in a vacant apartment with a gun present. They aren't the friendly type. WTF were they up to...Getting high before doing a robbery? Getting high before they rape your wife?

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This is two misdemeaner offenses. From this you make the assumption that they are not only evil people for smoking marijuana and trespassing (neither of which is terribly harmful to anyone but themselves), but that they are obviously planning to commit a felony.

I choose to treat each person with respect and dignity, in spite of whatever prejudices I may have against them for where they live, their race, their creed, their social upbringing, etc. I realize this makes me sound like a naive, stupid kid. I realize that I could very easily say "these kids are a scourge on society and are obviously bad people" and be liked by everyone. However, to me, saying "these kids are obviously evil because they smoke marijuana" is no different than saying they're evil because they are black or white or hispanic or muslim or jewish. It's making a pre-judgement based on very little solid information.

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Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff

in addition...crown heights isn't the best area of NYC...and the part of crown heights that they were in was worse....

to defend these pieces of shit is amazing to me...they were fucking warts....

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Ah yes, they live in a bad neighborhood, therefore they are warts on society. There's an enlightened statement.

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Originally Posted by SuperChuck

This is two misdemeaner offenses. From this you make the assumption that they are not only evil people for smoking marijuana and trespassing (neither of which is terribly harmful to anyone but themselves), but that they are obviously planning to commit a felony.

I choose to treat each person with respect and dignity, in spite of whatever prejudices I may have against them for where they live, their race, their creed, their social upbringing, etc. I realize this makes me sound like a naive, stupid kid. I realize that I could very easily say "these kids are a scourge on society and are obviously bad people" and be liked by everyone. However, to me, saying "these kids are obviously evil because they smoke marijuana" is no different than saying they're evil because they are black or white or hispanic or muslim or jewish. It's making a pre-judgement based on very little solid information.

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OK Chuck here is a little solid info for you. About 90% of people in jail are there due to some substance abuse. A vast majority of them steal, rob and burglarize to support their lifestyle. They also commit acts of domestic violence, abuse and neglect their offspring.

People that hang in vacant buildings also steal from those buildings. Have you ever talked to a property owner that has had his pipes and wiring stolen by unlawful inhabitants. Have you ever talked to property owners that have been vandalized by the same folks. I have. Trespassing on the surface may not look that bad...But it is.

Believe it or not drug use is a factor in violent crime and property crime. I do have solid information based on my experences. People that use illegal drugs open themselves to be judged. They choose to participate in illegal activites. I really have no problem with someone smoking a joint at their home. When they bring it into the street or neglect themselves or family or commit crimes against you it becomes everyones problem.

The totality of the circumstances in these two men's unfortunate demise speak for themselves. There is no way to justify their actions.

I make my living my making judgement calls on people. I stay alive by making judgement calls on the same. I feel I am qualifed to make a call on this based on the totality of the circumstances DESCRIBED in this incident. If you have more info please post it.

By the way...I treat people with respect and dignity when dealing with them. Usually I do not get the same respect back when dealing with a drug infulenced criminal.

To reiterate...Smoking pot is a crime as well as trespassing. That makes you a criminal if you choose engage in that sort of behavior. Murdering you fellow man is a crime. That makes you a criminal if you engage in that kind of behavior.

If you are so sure people that hang out in vacant buildings and smoke dope are OK...I suggest you go hang with em. You might get a little surprise.

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

OK Chuck here is a little solid info for you. About 90% of people in jail are there due to some substance abuse.

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While this is true, those people are not in jail for committing a violent crime. They are in jail for posessing or dealing an illegal substance. And my girlfriend knows many of them. :) I don't. I know the guys that are in for violent crimes. And one of them has my white practice jersey.

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To reiterate...Smoking pot is a crime as well as trespassing. That makes you a criminal if you choose engage in that sort of behavior. Murdering you fellow man is a crime. That makes you a criminal if you engage in that kind of behavior.

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So it speeding, littering, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, watering your lawn during a water ban, and parking on the wrong side of the street. But it's not right for me to suspect them of committing a heinous crime because they do something as morally wrong as parking in a 2 hour zone for 3 hours...

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If you are so sure people that hang out in vacant buildings and smoke dope are OK...I suggest you go hang with em. You might get a little surprise.

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I live with one of them. That's the environment my girlfriend grew up in. Most of them are just a hazard to themselves. For the most part, they'll spend their lives in and out of jails and prisons, getting picked up on posession or some petty theft or something. I think pinning them as mother rapers and father rapers is a bit of a prejudice. They're probably not going to end up on the town council, but they're not likely to end up on the front page, either.

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Is there an award for most quotes in one post?

Chuck...You and I are never gonna agree but that is OK. I see things in a way that you obviously cannot understand. My job is to protect society. I am trained to factor things into my decision making that a civilian is not aware are possibilities. What you see on the surface is not always what is reality.

I will say drug dealers are a violent type of people. In most every drug raid I have ever done weapons were found in close proximity to the dealers if not on them. People that abuse drugs are prone to violence due to mental decay. Give em a gun and they are dangerous. Just ask the two dead guys.

I do feel empathy for these drug usere. I wish there were more ways to get them turned around. That's my wife's department as she is a nurse at the jail where I take these folks.
She has got a good dose of reality and is starting to realize what people that abuse drugs are capabile of.

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

You and I are never gonna agree but that is OK.

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That I agree with. :smiley2:

I was thinking the same thing and I'm VERY glad you're able to respectfully disagree with someone. That's surprisingly hard to come by. I totally respect you as a person and for the work you do, so I'm glad that I'm able to throw a little criticism your way without catching (too much) hell. :smiley20:

I was a little worried because, unfortunately, a lot of the cops I've bumped into online play the "I put my life on the line for people like you every day while you sit on your ass, so how dare you criticize blah blah blah" card really quickly... Then another cop on the forum will pipe up and before you know it everyone's taking sides (usually the cop's side, cuz that's very popular these days) and soon I find it's me against the whole board just because I think Miranda Rights was a good ruling. :smiley12:

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I will say drug dealers are a violent type of people. In most every drug raid I have ever done weapons were found in close proximity to the dealers if not on them.

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Some drug dealers are violent, but I think most are mostly paranoid. They have two commodities that are hot on the street: cash and drugs. There are a lot of people that are more than happy to take either or both. Add the police into that mix and they're COMPLETELY paranoid. I think most keep guns around as a form of protection. That's certainly not to say all drug dealers are non-violents, but the dealers that I've met are interested in protecting themselves and their assets.

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Originally Posted by Bkcloud114

Do ya think they'll be missed ???

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LOL Who gives a phuck

I love the people that want to legalize drugs. How could a police officer be able to determine how "high" they were? "No sir, I've only had one joint tonight. I'm good to go!" :smiley2:

Drugs is the worst thing on earth. With the money the goverment has spent on the "war aganist drugs" we could have burned every pot field in the world.

I wouldn't say those two guys won't be missed, but think of what a great life they could have had, if they had not gotten high one afternoon and played with a gun.

i'm sure they had done it a few times (smoked weed)...and they certainly had a gun available.
they both had previous arrests and there were outstanding warrants.these were not prime citizens.
buh-bye boys!!!...

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Originally Posted by Kayakinboy

I love the people that want to legalize drugs. How could a police officer be able to determine how "high" they were? "No sir, I've only had one joint tonight. I'm good to go!" :smiley2:

Drugs is the worst thing on earth. With the money the goverment has spent on the "war aganist drugs" we could have burned every pot field in the world.

I wouldn't say those two guys won't be missed, but think of what a great life they could have had, if they had not gotten high one afternoon and played with a gun.

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its not that simple. i don't think drugs should be legalized, but i do think pot should be decriminalized. i think dealers should still be dealt with the same, but i don't think that people should be spending time in jail for a joint. but if a guy's trespassing while smoking it, take him to jail. if he's driving, take him to jail. if he walking down the street, call him an idiot and write him big ticket. just my $.02.

but it's that thin line, where would you draw the line in the sand. The bigger the lane, the easier it is to convict.

In a world full of bourbon and cigars, who the hell would ever wanna do drugs? :smiley37:

Bottom line is drugs make you do stupid things. I hate people who say "Marijauna is a harmless drug." It is fairly harmless when you smoke one joint at home, eat some food, and pass out. But after people smoke pot, they suddenly have the urge to do things stupid. My ex-girlfriends brother smokes pot on a daily basis. He would smoke pot three times a day. Once before school, once after school, and once more before he went to bed. I have seen him high driving a vehicle. I saw him swerve at people running or biking on the side of the road. He swerved and almost hit a Drivers Ed car head on. Pot gives you a feeling of invisibility.

It's not just marijauna:

People are stupid when they abuse any drug. I was at the pharmacy the other day. I needed to buy robitussin. I had to ask for it behind the counter from the pharmacist. How sad is that? Kids are drinking whole bottles of this stuff to alter their mind. I can't even stand drinking 2 tablespoons of that shit! You can't even buy anything with antihistamine without asking the pharmacist.

Over the weekend we had a guy spend the night in ICU because he mixed cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping pills. Once minute he was calm and relaxed, the other swinging punches and cussing us out. We had to have three police officers subdue him so that we could get him in the ambulance. By the time we got him to the rig, he went unresponsive and stopped breathing. So now two of us (my partner and I) had to get two IV's set, push some drugs that will hopefully counteract what he had taken, and breath for him. Not a fun time. Especially since the hospital is a min. 15 drive for us. He is lucky to be alive. We see this kind of stuff on a daily basis. And just not with cocaine. Any abused drug will harm you. So don't tell me that drugs are harmless. Drugs are deadly.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/1...ccident2eu.jpg
The driver of this car (Mitsubishi Mirage, in case you could not tell) was high on Marijauna when he decided it would be fun to see how fast his car would go on a back road out in the county. His rate of speed was undetermined, but was estimated at 90+mph when he lost control and rolled it several times before striking a large tree. The driver lived, but the passenger of the car, his best friend was DOA (Dead On Arrival). Now he has to live with that for the rest of his life. All becuase he thought it would be cool to smoke some pot and drive.

alcohol and tobacco are vices as well. my smoking a joint in my apartment is no more harmfull that you drinking some borbon at yours. if we decided to go driving around afterwards, both of us deserve to go to jail. there are irresponsible drinkers and irresponsible pot smokers. just because you know someone who smokes pot everyday who's a idiot, doesn't mean everyone that does is one. the line can be clearly drawn. it has been in some places. in denver, if you're 21 and possess up to an ounce of weed, its a ticket. same with california. if you do something stupid enough, you're going to go to jail. i know, i've been there and i probably deserved it. but, it wasn't the pot that made me do something stupid. it was me deciding to do something stupid. cigarsarge is right about the type of people that smoke pot and hang out in empty apartments and such. but, not everyone that smokes pot fits into that. i've grown up a lot since i was getting in trouble with the law. but, i honestly think i would've been doing the same stupid crap if i hadn't been high. because i was an reckless kid. i grew up. i still smoke pot. you could argue that i'm still being reckless because i'm doing something i know is illegal. but so is purchasing cuban cigars. not that buying cigars is reckless IMO.

I forgot to add that alcohol is also a drug. I am not saying that all pot smokers are stupid. Drinking and driving is just as stupid as being high and driving. Sitting at home smoking pot and not going anywhere is not that bad. The point I was trying to make there were about the other drugs like cocaine and perscription drugs that when mixed with other things become deadly.

I think I've said it once and I'll say it again...The real problem with marijuana is the black market aspect. It is sold in most crack houses houses I have been to. It's sold where extacy is sold in the upper middle class young adult hangouts. It's sold in your next door neighbors house.

People die just because they are trying to smuggle it to you...Not because they want to do you a favor. They die because of the MONEY they are after. They don't give a crap about you.

IMHO it is morally wrong to participate in an activity that is so closely related to violence and funding organized crime. There are children out there that have no mother or father because they have been killed or incarcerated due to the sale of marijuana and other drugs. There are high level dealers that are rich from someone elses misery. I have witnessed this first hand.

Until society changes it's rules this organized crime will have it's finger in the pie. Should marijuana be legalized? I don't know. Why allow free access to another mind altering substance? On the other hand I like to take a drink from time to time. That definately can alter the mind.

By the way...There is no difference in hanging in a vacant building smoking dope and hanging in a vacant drinking cheap whiskey. People that do that are up to no good. The results are generally the same.

i definitely see what you're saying. i'm not argueing that what i do is 'right.' there's a lot of ways this can go. i could say its the government that is keeping the black market for pot going. but them someone could say, "well, then why don't we legalize all drugs." which is not a good idea. california grows a lot of organic pot for medical purposes. if pot was decriminalized; this could be done everywhere and it could be controlled. the lowlifes that kill people for drug money would still being killing people for money if there were no drugs. people trying to make an easy dishonest buck will always be there.

what you said could easily be said about cuban cigars, though. according the law, we're supporting communism. we can't see what goes on in cuba just as i don't see as well as you do what goes on in the streets pertaining to drug use.

I agree with sarge. I love alcohol, I won't lie, am I an alcoholic? No, but I just enjoy the finer things in life. In my opinion, marijuana should not be legalized. I've heard every side of the debate, and usually the most common one is, "Well, alcohol is legal, it alters the mind, and it harms people other than the person drinking it." This is true, and I agree, but here is the thing...just because the government says you can do it, doesn't mean its right or safe. I think we all know our government has been wrong PLEANTY of times.

I live in one of the most drug infested places in TN. Pot is the way people get in, then it just advances from there, they have to have something more potent to get their fix. I don't believe alcohol is that way. I had a friend pass away a couple of years ago. Him and a few friends were at his house partying. Well, my friend got choked on his vomit and suffocated. The other kids sat there and watched him die instead of calling the cops or an ambulance because they were stoned. Its just a bad bad deal. Like I said though, just because the government says its ok doesn't make it right.

-Mike

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Originally Posted by reaganyouth84

I agree with sarge. I love alcohol, I won't lie, am I an alcoholic? No, but I just enjoy the finer things in life. In my opinion, marijuana should not be legalized. I've heard every side of the debate, and usually the most common one is, "Well, alcohol is legal, it alters the mind, and it harms people other than the person drinking it." This is true, and I agree, but here is the thing...just because the government says you can do it, doesn't mean its right or safe. I think we all know our government has been wrong PLEANTY of times.

I live in one of the most drug infested places in TN. Pot is the way people get in, then it just advances from there, they have to have something more potent to get their fix. I don't believe alcohol is that way. I had a friend pass away a couple of years ago. Him and a few friends were at his house partying. Well, my friend got choked on his vomit and suffocated. The other kids sat there and watched him die instead of calling the cops or an ambulance because they were stoned. Its just a bad bad deal. Like I said though, just because the government says its ok doesn't make it right.

-Mike

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if you think alcohol is 'one of the finer things in life,' then maybe you are an alcoholic. (i'm not pointing a finger at you calling you an alcoholic, just making a point) i think my family, friends, loved ones ARE THE finer things in life.then comes music and sex. but i also enjoy alcohol and smoking pot and cigars. just because the government says something is wrong, doesn't make it wrong either. (not referring to pot laws, just other things in general) if someone watched their friend die, it wasn't because he was high on marijuana. it was because he was on one or more other things, or he didn't give a shit.

The ongoing war on drugs has amazing similarities with Prohibition with one glaring exception: we decided to end prohibition. Prohibition had several major effects:

An increase in lack of respect for the law and the government.
A huge increase in criminal activity, and all the things that come with it, ie. violence
An upswing in corruption at all levels of society, especially in the government.
A concentration of money in the hands of some very corrupt, powerful and dangerous people.
A huge number of citizens ending up in jail for alcohol consumption and/or distribution.

And surprisingly, it did not result in reducing alcohol consumption by much. Illegal activity sprang up all across America and continued in back alleys, hidden locations and even peoples bathtubs for the entire 13 years of Prohibition.


And today, we have all of those things with the war on drugs. We are not winning the war on drugs, it costs our society all of the above and more. I'm for legalization of consumption, but war on distribution of all drugs except marijuana, but I'm fully aware that even that cutback in this War will still have large, detrimental effects on our society, but perhaps less than the full legalization of all drugs. And I support the legalization of marijuana, it is too pervasive, we need to concentrate our efforts. And stop locking people up for using.

Every time a society tries to criminalize behavior that a large portion of their society wants to engage in, look out, cause it's going to be a huge destabilizing influence.

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Originally Posted by Drake

if you think alcohol is 'one of the finer things in life,' then maybe you are an alcoholic. (i'm not pointing a finger at you calling you an alcoholic, just making a point) i think my family, friends, loved ones ARE THE finer things in life.then comes music and sex. but i also enjoy alcohol and smoking pot and cigars. just because the government says something is wrong, doesn't make it wrong either. (not referring to pot laws, just other things in general) if someone watched their friend die, it wasn't because he was high on marijuana. it was because he was on one or more other things, or he didn't give a shit.

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You are fine Drake, I don't think you are calling me an alcoholic, but I do enjoy my booze. This subject is just a slippery slope. My political science professor jokes around all the time that if you gave him 4 hours alone in his office he could "fix" the world's problems. Then once all of his plans went into effect, he would screw up 80% of everything just because what looks good on paper doesn't always work. I think this is one of those things that I would screw up for sure.

I think sex could be considered a drug. It is very addictive activity, and, not to sound all weird or anything, but when you have an orgasim, there is a small dose of "natural" morphine that is shot into your blood stream. Any thoughts or ideas on this one?

-Mike