Why are we fighting???

Rohan has brought up a very good point. I, and others, have been posting our thoughts about issues in a thread that was meant for cigar discussion. As a matter of fact, it had to do with a cigar review - unfortunately, the review has become more of banter back and forth about what is right and wrong. So, I'd like to start this thread to discuss what it is that has brought concerns from other members of this board.

Please - do not participate in this thread if you are easily offended. I'm not suggesting that this will go bad, but it seems some are a bit sensitive about honest assessments and answers to their posts. This is not intended to be a flame fest, but instead, to clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings of peoples intentions. Hex, I sincerely hope you don't lock this thread, or allow posts to be deleted. I believe that once everyone understands peoples motivations, this thread will quickly fade.

But until then, let the discussion begin...

I wish to start out with a point that Rohan made about a post I made on the other thread. It goes something like this...

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Originally Posted by Roham

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Originally Posted by ggiese

I'm sorry I offended you... But, let me ask you a question. When does what's posted here not become "useless slander"? Would that be when you are burned on a trade? Would it then be right to post about being burned without it being "useless slander"? I think Dave Razz has the right to ask the questions he does. And I believe he is owed answers about his trade. Sorry if it's on this board, but where else should it be? Should it be in private e-mails and PM's? That's already been done and there has been no resolution. And it appears Carlos continues to trade in questionable cigars...

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One post warning us of Oblik and the experience you had trading with him would not be useless slander. Bringing 5 or so buddys onto this board to correct his grammar and continue to disrupt his posts is "useless slander"......

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Rohan - Then I guess you misunderstood this whole discussion. I'm not Dave's Buddy - I don't know him. I see from his post counts on other boards he is an active participant, and from the sounds of things, seems to be respected. I do know of CoventryCat86, and have had conversations with him. I trust and value his opinions. He is a very knowledgeable BOTL, with a wealth of experience. I don't know who the other two are (totalling 5, including me).

I will tell you that there are individuals I see here, if they chose to, could cause havoc on this board if it were their intent. They would bring WAY more than "5 or so" buddies. I will also tell you that they obviously do not want to do that, because they are respectable people. So your comment about "5 or so buddys" disrupting this board seems without merit to me...

Also, I think you can see from the posts - there are issues aside from the trading - i.e. Mod status on this and another board. I've seen he's "exercised" his mod powers to delete posts on the other board, and now on this board (including mine, and I am offended). That's a VERY dangerous practice. Again - I appeal to you to understand the gravity of that "power" (i.e. Censorship) I don't believe that should be abused and should only to be exercised in extreme circumstances. Deleting posts can change the whole flavor of a conversation - especially if you're trying to hide something.

I'm also trying to understand why I'm the bad guy - you are responding to my posts in this thread, disrupting the conversation. So I guess it's okay for you to do that, but not me? I'm sorry, I'm having a little bit of trouble with grasping that concept.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me you haven't been around cigar boards for very long, so I can appreciate the lack of understanding. I'd suggest you check out the boards that have been running for a long time, and have a large membership to see what is successful and not successful. The long running, high membership boards are places where everyone's opinion is valued, even though other members may not agree. They are not over moderated, they don't delete posts or lock threads unless it is an extreme situation. Otherwise the value of deleting posts and locking threads loses impact, which further leads to the loss of credibility for the board.

Well said George. :smiley20:

Rohan, I think you were WAY out of line accusing ggiese of "bringing 5 or so buddies" here since I signed up BEFORE he did and I can't see ANY link to anyone who has signed up after him as you wrongfully stated. As I mentioned in another post, you comment certainly qualifies as "useless slander" more than anything ggiese or I have posted on this site.

A few others here seem more than eager to jump to conclusions and respond to some of my posts with smart-assed comments before they know all the facts. No big deal since most of them have since realized they were maybe a little out of line and have pulled their horns in and/or sent me a PM with an explanation.

Yep, as anyone can clearly see, I've had experiences with Oblik on another board by watching how he behaves and how he abused and was insulting and rude to quite a few of my friends. In my opinion he should NOT be a moderator of this board. He's too immature, too much of a hot head and is quite lacking in his knowledge of cigars. To be a "moderator" one must be mature and even tempered and display some level of objectivity which I have never seen in Oblik's posts anywhere.

Posts SHOULD NOT BE DELETED especially when Oblik only does it because HE doesn't like the content of the post. This is a gross abuse of his power and he should be warned to stop such nonsense immediately or his moderator status should be taken away.

The more established cigar boards are "self moderated" and the site administrators only step in when the "flaming" or name calling gets way out of hand.

ggiese is right, many of you guys here should check out other cigar boards and see how they are run because I don't recognize most of you from any other on-line cigar BB's.

I would hate to see hex1848's site crash and burn the way LetsTalkCigars did because of poor choices by the moderators and the site owner.

I agree and disagree. I am a vet of many boards including CA, CW, cigarbid, and now this one. It is true that most boards self moderate because of the member-base that a cigar board tends to get. It tends to be more mature, etc. However, the trash talking here is strictly personal. Maybe hex can create a "smack talk" forum for you guys to go in and bash each other. The problem I have is when it carries into and eventually takes over the substance of the board. At that point, I say delete and continue to delete until the problem goes away.

one good thing to the come from all this is that we have several new members who appear to be veteran BOTLs. Let's hope they all stick around and contribute. :smiley20:

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins

I agree and disagree. I am a vet of many boards including CA, CW, cigarbid, and now this one. It is true that most boards self moderate because of the member-base that a cigar board tends to get. It tends to be more mature, etc. However, the trash talking here is strictly personal. Maybe hex can create a "smack talk" forum for you guys to go in and bash each other. The problem I have is when it carries into and eventually takes over the substance of the board. At that point, I say delete and continue to delete until the problem goes away.

one good thing to the come from all this is that we have several new members who appear to be veteran BOTLs. Let's hope they all stick around and contribute. :smiley20:

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Uhhhh, what you perceive as "trash talking" is relevant criticism of how Oblik handles his job as a moderator and the generally $hitty tone and complete lack of respect he demonstrates when he posts on top of the fact that he appears to have anger management and superiority complex issues.

ggiese and I have taken exception with roham making false accusations and engaging in "slander" as he states it. This is far from "personal" as you stated, it's a matter of poor behavior on their part and it should be discussed in the OPEN in posts on the board rather that "whispered" in PM's as suggested by some.

How is this "taking over the substance of the board"? you completely lost me on that one......

Are you also condoning the deletion of posts? If so you shouldn't be a "moderator" either. I will say it once again:

POSTS SHOULD NOT BE DELETED OR ALTERED BY A MODERATOR

unless they violate the law or some board policy. All of the posts that have been deleted by Oblik haven't even come close to that. He abused his mod privileges and deleted posts because he simply didn't like them.

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins

I agree and disagree. I am a vet of many boards including CA, CW, cigarbid, and now this one. It is true that most boards self moderate because of the member-base that a cigar board tends to get. It tends to be more mature, etc. However, the trash talking here is strictly personal. Maybe hex can create a "smack talk" forum for you guys to go in and bash each other. The problem I have is when it carries into and eventually takes over the substance of the board. At that point, I say delete and continue to delete until the problem goes away.

one good thing to the come from all this is that we have several new members who appear to be veteran BOTLs. Let's hope they all stick around and contribute. :smiley20:

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That shocks me - you seem quite a bit more intelligent than that...

I don't know that any of those boards do as you suggest - create a separate "smack talk" thread, and delete, delete, delete until the problem goes away. I'm aware of one board that decided to do that as a policy - delete, delete, delete - ban, go private, etc - now it's on the verge of going into oblivion...

I think your idea is absolutely insane!!! What the heck will that accomplish, other than causing severe anger and resentment... Do you disagree with the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis when he said , "Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." ? I personally live by and believe we should heed those words :smiley20:

Just for arguments sake.... Moheganson and bkcloud are the fourth and fifth people I was talking about.... The only reason I say they are your buddIES is because you all showed up within a week of each other and started disrupting this board.... All save BKcloud, but he says he knows you too. Alls I know is I use to enjoy this site, and these past few days have not been enjoyable to say the least...

This is a Internet (Cigar) CHAT ROOM Not some third world country struggle for power !!!
Let's light up and chill out.

P.S. If you don't like the way this site is run, you have the Freedom to go somewhere else...
Start your own if you like.......

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Originally Posted by smokeyJoe

This is a Internet (Cigar) CHAT ROOM Not some third world country struggle for power !!!
Let's light up and chill out.

P.S. If you don't like the way this site is run, you have the Freedom to go somewhere else...
Start your own if you like.......

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That's exactly what I meant. There is no reason to air disagreements, etc.

I don't know how much simpler to say this: If you don't like participating on this board, then leave. If you stay, let's talk cigars. If you don't, we will still talk cigars.

These board wars are what's insane. This is hex's site. He shouldn't have to put up with it and if he wants to ban every damn one of us, including me, then do so. He wants to talk cigars; I want to talk cigars. None of us want to talk about this load.

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Originally Posted by CoventryCat86

B]POSTS SHOULD NOT BE DELETED OR ALTERED BY A MODERATOR[/B]

unless they violate the law or some board policy. All of the posts that have been deleted by Oblik haven't even come close to that. He abused his mod privileges and deleted posts because he simply didn't like them.

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You speak as though you have a right to post on hex's board. He can delete whatever he wants because it is his board and your privilege to post here.

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Originally Posted by ggiese

I think your idea is absolutely insane!!! What the heck will that accomplish, other than causing severe anger and resentment... Do you disagree with the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis when he said , "Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." ? I personally live by and believe we should heed those words :smiley20:

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Quoting Brandeis is a little over the top. It makes me think of Learned Hand when he said:

"The mid-day sun is too much for most eyes; one is dazzled even with its reflection. Be careful that too broad and high an aim does not paralyze your effort and clog your springs of action."

Or better yet, he said: "No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture."

My point is simply: Lighten up and let's talk about cigars.

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins

Quoting Brandeis is a little over the top. It makes me think of Learned Hand when he said:

"The mid-day sun is too much for most eyes; one is dazzled even with its reflection. Be careful that too broad and high an aim does not paralyze your effort and clog your springs of action."

Or better yet, he said: "No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture."

My point is simply: Lighten up and let's talk about cigars.

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Aside from the few posts in here and a couple of other thread, I think you can see we ARE talking about cigars - just not all the time (for example, the thread you're involved in about the NFL draft). I'm sure at some point you'll be faced with political discussions between members - it's bound to happen. You want to see feathers fly?

I agree: "No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture." So in response to your first quote: Please don't paint this dispute into an all consuming, destructive war - that's not what it is. It's a disagreement, pure and simple, trying to bring ONE circumstance to light. It's never been a broad attack on this board. I'm not some kind of enforcer, who doesn't enjoy cigars, coming in here to wreak havoc. Please don't label me as such. It hurts my feelings :smiley19:

And we are not focusing on disrupting the board as Roham would suggest. I know a lot of people on other boards - and they know me. So they show up here and say "hi"? Does that now mean they mean harm? You don't know BKcloud - are you prejudiced? You certainly are prejudging him. You should get to know him - he's really a great guy!!! He's fairly new at cigars, but has the same passion for them as you do.

I've spoken my peace an some issues, so I can see where you might be a little irritated by my comments if you don't necessarily agree with them. But that doesn't make me a bad person, does it? A number of you disagreed with me, and I don't view you as a bad people.

So what should we do Cocky? Delete, Delete, Delete, ban, lock down, make the board private? Lock me out - shut the site down - become paranoid - "there's bad people on the internet that will come in here and say bad things". C'mon - you seem a bit wiser then that. You know what the end result of that would be... I don't need to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Roham

Just for arguments sake.... Moheganson and bkcloud are the fourth and fifth people I was talking about.... The only reason I say they are your buddIES is because you all showed up within a week of each other and started disrupting this board.... All save BKcloud, but he says he knows you too. Alls I know is I use to enjoy this site, and these past few days have not been enjoyable to say the least...

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By the way - when you made your initial post about 5 of us coming over here, BKcloud hadn't even signed up yet... I think you're trying to paint a picture here that's not quite accurate to support your position of a bunch of bad people coming in here to destroy this happy home. Not my intent, not CoventryCat's, nor Moheganson's either - and I can tell you, not BKcloud's either. Nor Leebo (I guess you'd call him the 6th), or AlexGTP (the 7th) - they're new and said "hi" too.

And I agree with you Roham - conflict is not enjoyable. But, hopefully, it is shortlived - as long as it is let to run its course. Patience is the key here - those involved will resolve their differences one way or the other. And through the process we will all learn something - whether it's trading etiquette, handling conflict, how to spot fake cigars - or more importantly, who we are as INDIVIDUALS. You may not like what I say, but I'm sure you will come to appreciate who I am. Conversely, I do not like all you say, but I will come to appreciate who you are. Life would be boring if we were all exactly alike...

ggiese, I accept your argument. Now, give me areview of what you smoked last night :smiley20:

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins

You speak as though you have a right to post on hex's board. He can delete whatever he wants because it is his board and your privilege to post here.

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hex1848 is not deleteing posts, Oblik is. This is NOT Oblik's board and neither he nor you should delete other member's posts.

My guess is that hex1848 does not condone deleting posts. Face is cocky, Oblik is wrong for engaging in such rude behavior and it should stop immediately.

And yes cocky, hex can do whatever he want's because it's his board. Well, it's not YOUR board nor is it Oblik's board either.

It's story time cocky so sit back and read on (this was posted on CigarPass in a thread where SFG75 ultimately wound up being banned from CigarPass because of his $hitty attitude and smart mouthed comments):

When I was 10 I had a fort in my backyard. When a fella has a fort, a club is soon to follow; I got myself a club. Now, as I was one of the club's founders, I had the jurisdiction to kick people out of the club without provocation. Of course, I eventually exercised my right until I was the only one in my club... and I like it that way tongue.gif
Time passed and somehow I had worked my way through to high school where the club of choice was the Key Club. Unfortunately, the Key Club had been firmly established long before I got there and so I had to suck up to those who had sucked up before me. I had to mind myself and act like somebody. I hated the thought that I could be banned - to suffer the same humilation as the many (2, maybe 3) who I had banned from my fort years before. Soon I was a senior and vp of the K.Club. The procedures of banning a person wasn't as simple as I thought - I mean, you couldn't just snap your fingers and he was gone - but neverless quite doable. You would simply tell the other seniors that you wanted him banned, they wouldn't care, and a lie would be concocted to present to the school's review board. Any senior could ban any underclassman for any (or no) reason. Those were our (unofficial) rules.
In college the clubs were, of course, fraternities - and the same pattern continues. Except here, the upperclassmen not only have the authority to ban (or, blackball, as was the jargon of fraternity choice) but could also beat the sh!t out of you during commercials. As a pledge, it was now especially necessary to swallow your pride, or the one-way sign that had always done a fine job of directing your a$$ traffic would be turned to face the opposite way. Years later, as a senior I would try to do a thing that, while so simple before, was now a complete pain in the ass: ban a jackass member. He was a loud-mouth sophomore and a social retard. He made the whole fraternity look bad. The problem was, he had done nothing illegal... As it happens, you can't ban a member - only a pledge - because he has paid the fraternity dues: about $3,000 a semester. So, how did we get rid of him? We just kept telling him that he's a dumb-as$, relentlessly, until he quit (or "went inactive", as it was called).

END OF STORY, now back to my post......

Back a few months ago, there was a lame-assed site run by a couple of children in California called "LetsTalkCigars." The site owner, a jerkoff named "Zac" spammed a bunch of other cigar sites (including this one) in order to get people to join his site. He did this at the suggestion of another clown on that site who was trying to push his junk Panamanian cigars. The Panamanian cigar clown had a reputation of saying "I'll send you some cigars" and he seldom if ever did. So Zac, being the immature sucker that he is, went around spamming other cigar sites. This pissed some people off. Many members from other sites went over to LTC and voiced their concerns. Well guess freakin' WHO was a "moderator" over there? None other that Oblik and he was rude and nasty to people, he altered and deleted other member's posts, was instrumental in getting people banned and so forth and so on, the same crap he's pulling or trying to pull here.

What made matters worse was the site owner Zac, condoned this nonsense AND made two other jerkoffs moderators. Well between Oblik, SFG75, Purobrat, Zac, Corey and larrynj (a reject from Herfer's Paradise) LetsTalkCigars imploded upon itself in a matter of two months.

Cocky, you'd be wise to study threads like these rather than bitching about them or thinking you know everything because you don't.

And yes cocky, hex can do whatever he wants, he can follow Zac's lead and let a loose cannon like Oblik ruin his site or he can sit back and let civil discussions run their course and people draw their own conclusions about other members based on their posts.

I've noticed that Oblik's been awfully quiet lately, I wonder why? :smiley24:

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Originally Posted by Roham

Just for arguments sake.... Moheganson and bkcloud are the fourth and fifth people I was talking about.... The only reason I say they are your buddIES is because you all showed up within a week of each other and started disrupting this board.... All save BKcloud, but he says he knows you too. Alls I know is I use to enjoy this site, and these past few days have not been enjoyable to say the least...

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roham, once again you are posting slander. blkcloud had not signed up when you posted your slander and PLEASE tell us all exatcly which FIVE people who signed up AFTER ggiese have been "disrupting this board?

I really think you should refrain from posting further slander.

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins

That's exactly what I meant. There is no reason to air disagreements, etc.

I don't know how much simpler to say this: If you don't like participating on this board, then leave. If you stay, let's talk cigars. If you don't, we will still talk cigars.

These board wars are what's insane. This is hex's site. He shouldn't have to put up with it and if he wants to ban every damn one of us, including me, then do so. He wants to talk cigars; I want to talk cigars. None of us want to talk about this load.

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You don't want to talk about bad cigar trading? That seems to me to be pertinent information for a cigar board. It appears some are planning box passes in the near future... So then it's okay to put and take fake cigars - valuing them as originals? Would you buy a Rolex off eBay?

Most of the cigar box passes I've been involved in have had the caveat "equal puts and takes". You wanna see someone get angry, do it otherwise. There's a board I've been involved in for quite a while that just did a box pass that was an absolute joke. One of the members saw nothing wrong with taking out three limited edition, super-premium smokes (about $30 a piece), and replace them with common smokes ($5 - 8). I'd like to do that - that would be great!!! I believe the person did it out of ignorance not knowing the real value of the cigars. If I did that, it would be theft - because I KNOW better (having learned from doing box passes with others). Great for a newb to do that - not good for a vet to do that... What separates me from a newb in that - KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE, UNDERSTANDING and most of all TRUST!!! But then again, isn't that what this and other boards are about? Teaching and learning etiquette?

One of the valuable lessons I've learned on other boards (and I think you can appreciate this, Cocky) is the concept "Pay it Forward". I've learned this through words and actions. If I feel the need, I send out a group of smokes to a newb so they can sample some nice smokes. That is part of the BOTL (Brotherhood of the Leaf) we are all a member of. I have been gifted with some INCREDIBLE cigars (such as the nice box that came yesterday containing an Opus X Churchill, Diamond Crown Maximus Double Cornona, Trinidad Robusto and a Joya de Nicaragua Antano I've been dying to try). Not because I traded - not because I deserved it - just because another member decided to "Pay it Forward". I sent out two bombs a few weeks ago containing about 30 cigars. If the mood hit me, I'd send smokes to someone here as well. As a matter of fact, I see the potential for some deserving brothers (newbs) on this board who are in definite need of broadening their tastes. (Acid cigars, C'MON!!!)

You want to talk about cigars - talk about cigars. Talk about ALL aspects of cigars. If you are planning on doing any trades in here, talk about expectations. Talk about fairness. Talk about equal puts and takes. Do it in a respectful way, but don't shy away from it because it may not be nice. That's how a board becomes successful, and members get along.

BTW- Roham - me and a few of my friends have come to take care of business here...
































http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/ggiese/python2.gif

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins

ggiese, I accept your argument. Now, give me areview of what you smoked last night :smiley20:

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Sorry, bro - worked from 9 am until 11 pm yesterday - I didn't get a smoke in... But I plan to do it up right this weekend!!! :smiley20:

I'll let you know!!! :smiley2:

Now I gotta go to the humi - decisions, decisions!!!

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Would you buy a Rolex off eBay?

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HEY you makin' fun of me 'cause I bought my Rolex off of eBay?

You are a mean, mean man George :smiley19: :smiley19: :smiley19:

I'm gonna go lie on the couch and sulk all day AFTER I pick up my Rolex from the jeweler's from being serviced AND getting the crystal repaired that I smashed. :smiley17:

I see my friends CoventryCat86 and ggiese are here along with others. Good to see you guys again

Hey Kevin!!

Good to see you too :smiley20:

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Originally Posted by kevin7

I see my friends CoventryCat86 and ggiese are here along with others. Good to see you guys again

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Hey, Kevin!!! Good to see you too!!! :smiley31:

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Originally Posted by CoventryCat86

HEY you makin' fun of me 'cause I bought my Rolex off of eBay?

You are a mean, mean man George :

I'm gonna go lie on the couch and sulk all day AFTER I pick up my Rolex from the jeweler's from being serviced AND getting the crystal repaired that I smashed. :smiley17:

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I hope you didn't get one of those "genuine" Rolex's that sell for $19.99.... I think the same poster is selling the glass-top Cohiba's :smiley36:

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Originally Posted by ggiese

I hope you didn't get one of those "genuine" Rolex's that sell for $19.99.... I think the same poster is selling the glass-top Cohiba's :smiley36:

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Honest, no it's a real one. A model 6694, Stainless Steel one and it's OLD, probably from the late 1960s or early 1970s. Unfortunately it's NOT the "perpetual motion" or self winding one so I have to wind the damn thing every day. It keeps PERFECT time and I love it.

Mine has the black dial which makes for a nice looking watch BUT the black dial makes it hard to read especially since my vision is getting bad. I can't see a damn thing without a pair of drug store reading glasses.

Yeah you youngsters are probably snickering at me right now :smiley36: but just wait until YOU turn forty and see how funny you think this all is :smiley4: :smiley4:

I've got the Rolex Submariner - black face / stainless steel. A present from my father. The self-winders are not all they crack up to be. Mine loses about 2 minutes a month....

The best watch I've ever owned came from the Seiko outlet - paid $99 for an $800.00 watch - The Titanium Kinetic. It's self winding mechanism actually charges a capacitor, which powers the watch. That baby has been right on (time wise), is durable as hell (it's my everyday watch - and I go through watches like crazy), and is nice looking.

I, too (I'm sorry to say) am starting to have trouble seeing the watch face as well - even with my reading glasses...

Roham... You don't know me and to include me in something that has nothing to do with me or you is stupid. "All save BKcloud", please tell me that is a typo.... if not I might just tell you to STFU .... I have never said anything bad about anybody on this board and I do not have any intentions on doing so unless it is done to me or my opinion is asked. You are sticking your nose in where it does not belong. I was banned from LTC for associating with certain people, not for what I said. Is that what you are attempting to turn this board into. Please find a post by me where I flamed somebody that makes this so unenjoyable for you. :smiley19: If ya can't find one I believe an apology is in order. Let's see how long it takes for our posts to be deleted or for us too be banned.....

Maybe I'll go back to the other BB's where there is no pansy ass bullshit

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Originally Posted by Roham

Just for arguments sake.... Moheganson and bkcloud are the fourth and fifth people I was talking about.... The only reason I say they are your buddIES is because you all showed up within a week of each other and started disrupting this board.... All save BKcloud, but he says he knows you too. Alls I know is I use to enjoy this site, and these past few days have not been enjoyable to say the least...

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edited for spelling, I know CC will find more

I'm reading through posts on the board and I come across a thread I had earlier read, but just glossed over. Then I read the thread in depth... And lo and behold - it's absolutely what I was talking about earlier...

I saw a little bit of fur fly - that would seem to be expected. Things seemed to be a bit uncomfortable for a time.

Oblik wrote:

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We need to get ahold of all the people who have had the pass so far to figure out what happpened to the Partagas.

Anyone want to come clean and tell us that you have them or that they "accidentaly" were left out when you shipped the box off and that you will send them to the next person in line?

Come on...that is just rediculous people...someone step up and tell us where they are and we will move on.

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Ashman writes:

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Oblik,

WOW! settle down...it will turn up, and if not, really what can you do about it. One or two sticks are really not worth getting all worked up about.

I can not definately verify that the Partagas was in the pass when I got it or not, it to long ago and to small of a detail for my memory. I know and posted what I took. I know and posrted what I put and a Partagas was not in either of my lists. I do not have one, and have not smoked one. So I know It was not me who removed it from the pass.

I personally gave in a humidor box to salvage the transport of the pass and put in extra sticks, above my number of takes, in the this pass.

I was having fun with it until all of the finger pointing...

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And, of course, no one fessed up to the disappearance.

But, Cocky wrote:

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Hey guys, no biggie. This is the first one. We all have some learning to do (whoever took them just needs to know that it is not acceptable behavior). If it happens again, they won't be included in the next pass.

Let's get through it and move on to the next one. I wouldn't have put them in if I couldn't afford to lose them.

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So, Oblik being the great BOTL he is, steps up:

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I feel really bad for what happened to the ISOMs so I decided to be generous. Here is what I did.

Takes:
-Pinar
-Carlos Torano Exodous 1959
-Punch Gran Puro
-Bohemia

Puts:
-Cohiba Robusto ISOM(2003)
-H. Upmann Vintage Cameroon
-Cusano 18 Robusto
-Joya De Nicaragua Antano Machito

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How very generous of brother Oblik. From what I've seen, it remains to be seen as to how generous he truly was... The issue of the faux Cohiba's from a previous trade has yet to be settled. It appeared to be in the right track, but now appears to be heading south quickly...

Quote:

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No Dave, everything that I have said here was said to you in the emails. If you would get the anger out of your eyes and read them for what they are you would see that.

Why do you continue to yell at me? You are very degrading, not that I care.

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...from that post, it appears it will remain unresolved, PERIOD (his last comment, "not that I care" speaks volumes of what his intentions are in that matter).

Cocky - I'm a little shocked that you said the things you did to me in this thread when you lost two ISOM cigars in your box pass - at least it appears they're still missing... Did they ever turn up? No one seems to know what happened to them... I know - you said, "I wouldn't have put them into the pass if I couldn't afford to lose them." But, why should you be out any sticks in that pass? You were generous enough with your cigars to send them off for others to enjoy. I guess if the whole box turned up missing, that would be okay too?

This is why this bad trader list exists. You didn't know all the participants in this box pass. One of them could have easily just grabbed the box and disappeared. Someone could place a cheap cigar, claiming it to be valuable - and then professing ingnorance when asked about it. That would be especially troubling if it was later learned the person doing that did in fact know better. Wouldn't it have been nice to check to see if anyone was on that list before you sent out your cigars?

Oblik did a trade on another board and stiffed a member. Publicly, at first, he was talking about making it right. I haven't seen that happen. Now it appears he has no intention of making it right.

What if you were able to identify the person who took the ISOM's out of your box pass? And they said they would make it right? But they didn't. And you saw them on another board engaging in the same behavior they exhibited here. You mean to say you wouldn't be kind enough to let others know what the person had done?

Taking it a bit further - it appears Oblik has a reasonably sized collection of cigars, and has actively participated in several box passes here and on another board. It seems to me he has the means of repaying Dave Razz the smokes Dave is owed. But there is a stumbling block - Oblik now feels he is "owed" something. That's strikes me a bit odd... Owed what?

Oblik had been told by another member his cigars were counterfeit - yet he goes ahead and does a trade with Dave with the same cigars another member told him were counterfeit? And he feels he is "owed" something... C'mon!!!

I don't know about you and your sense of fairness, but for me - mistakes happen. The easiest way to make up for a mistake is to apologize, and square with the person who was on the receiving end of the mistake. By square, I mean send the person something that will make up for the mistake. This goes back to lessons we learned as children - admit you made the mistake, accept reponsibility (which includes making it good), and learn from the mistake.

Well, that post about sums it up. I am one of many that have been burned by Carlos. He will always have a tough time trading, etc in the future I suppose..now on the other hand, if he was to come clean with those he has burned..including cockyhoskins....he may have a chance to remeed himself. He is way to immature for that to happen however.

I am off to the course....FORE!!!!!!!!!! :smiley31:

Oblik, just make things right here, okay? This is NOT the Island of the Misfit Toys so you won't get away with it here.

You'd do yourself and this place a huge favor by just admitting your mistakes and rectifying them to the satisfaction of those whom you've burned.

Just a word of advice, listening to your buddies advice on the Island is NOT going to rectify things. If you want to listen to them then you will wind up like them, universally hated in the cigar community by everyone else and not welcome on any other cigar boards.

Personally as much as I'm not happy with you, I truly believe there is hope for you. You just have a lot of growing up to do and you need a heck of a lot more experience with cigars and with cigar BB's

Top for jrewing and labmoney :smiley17:

C'mon I know you two MUST have something to add to this thread. And if you don't, I'm sure someone will bring the both of you up here. :smiley4: