An Official Web-wide Apology

First off I would like to say that what has happened over the last several days is one of the most embarrassing and unwanted thing to have happened. This ordeal started out as an argument between myself and a fellow member on stoggiechat.com. There was no way I would know that it would carry this far. I very sincerely and sympathetically apologize for what has gone on recently.

Before I purchased the Cohibas in question I had done a significant amount of research on spotting fakes. When I first bought a box of Cohiba Robustos I was very careful to observe all of the things that you should look for. I undoubtedly was convinced that they were the real deal and shortly after purchased a box of Espledidos. Unfortunately as you have all seen it has been determined that they are fake. The box that they came in, the seals, the papers that came with them, the box codes, the holograms, the presence of triple caps, and even the presentation were all real. The band resembles a real Cohiba quite well to the untrained eye. Many of you will agree with me on that. But, to a person who has much more experience with Cohiba it is fairly obvious that they are not the real bands. I was fooled, Dave was fooled at first and some of you may have been fooled even up to this point.

I am not here to plead a case. I am now a statistic and I feel very bad about the trades that I have made. I in no way, shape or form EVER intended to burn anyone of my fellow BOTLs. This was not intentional in any way. At first I refused to believe that it was true, but now after all of this mess has gone web wide and I have seen all of the evidence to show me my faults, I freely admit that they are in fact fake Cohibas. I am truly sorry for the fuss that I have caused.

To my knowledge I have traded out 5 of them, one in a pass that I started, two more in two other passes and two in a private trade. My offer to anyone who has one of these (and yes this includes you Dave) is to contact me at oblik23@yahoo.com and I will work out something with you to square things up.

In this I was a victim and I also created victims. I was wrong and I admit that now. To the people who I have wronged and to the communities that this has affected, I sincerely apologize and hope that all of you can forgive me. I can be very hard headed at times, but when I am wrong, I am wrong. This is one of those times. Please accept this apology and let’s get back to being a good BOTL community.

Carlos Velasquez

Thank you Carlos. And I'm sorry I've been awfully hard on you.

I've been convinced pretty much all along that you didn't really INTENTIONALLY trade cigars you KNEW were bad, you just got taken by a vendor who sells fake cigars. Hey, I'll be the first to admit, I've come across Havanas that I thought were real and it turned out they were very questionable and I wasn't too happy.

Please don't feel embarrassed, it happens all too often in the cigar world.

To my knowledge I have traded out 5 of them, one in a pass that I started, two more in two other passes and two in a private trade. My offer to anyone who has one of these (and yes this includes you Dave) is to contact me at oblik23@yahoo.com and I will work out something with you to square things up.


Carlos Velasquez[/QUOTE]


I have been to several schools on interviewing. I was taught when someone says," To my knowledge", they are being evasive or not completely truthful. Carlos, I don't know if you are being completely truthful about this. If there are anymore fakes from you out there your post could come back to haunt you. If there is no more out there this is a good start on cleaning up your mess.

[/QUOTE]
I have been to several schools on interviewing. I was taught when someone says," To my knowledge", they are being evasive or not completely truthful. Carlos, I don't know if you are being completely truthful about this. If there are anymore fakes from you out there your post could come back to haunt you. If there is no more out there this is a good start on cleaning up your mess.[/QUOTE]

I use that phrase all the time and in fact did today testifying on the stand in court.....federal court at that. I can tell you that I was being 100% honest when I was saying "To my knowledge" or "Not to my knowledge". I think you would have to actually be face to face with the guy to be able to tell if he were being evasive while using such a phrase or any other phrase for that matter. This of course is just my opinion.

Puff your opinion is valid and noted. I am saying people should use caution until all the cards have been played. You have to admit this whole thing stinks. Would you trade with him now without reservation?

It takes courage to apologize when you are wrong most people just ditch and run. Thanks for the apology and glad this had a good ending. Some of the fakes are getting good enough that the only way you can tell the difference is to smoke them. Good luck in your future trades and purchases.

hmmm... i musta missed out on all the E-drama...

anyways it takes some pretty big balls to own up to a mistake that got blown up so big :smiley32:

I think that merits a round of applause...

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

Puff your opinion is valid and noted. I am saying people should use caution until all the cards have been played. You have to admit this whole thing stinks. Would you trade with him now without reservation?

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Well, honestly, being new to the forums, I am not really familiar with exactly what happened. I do think that an apology goes a long way in saying that Oblik really did not intend to rip anyone off. But then again, maybe he just wants us to think that..........j/k bro.

I think that as well backed as Oblik is by an overwhelming majority of the board, I would more than likely trust him as long as no further incidences took place.

But I also see your point of view and it is also noted. :smiley20:

As a lawyer and real estate broker, I use "To my knowledge" all the time; when you are certifying in a contract to purchase that there are no environmental hazards on a property, etc., you can only do so "to your knowledge".

Big round of applause for Oblik. :smiley32: :smiley32: :smiley32: :smiley32:

Who's ready for boxpass Ver 2.0? It should be awesome this time!

I am just trying to say he should be totally aware of what he sent out in such a short period of time. I'm not trying to bash him...seems like he used a a poor choice of words. Truth be known, I would probably trade with him.

AMEN,

Carlos..See it was not so hard.
We have all bene had..somehwere along our smoking journies.. There is nothing wrong with that. I am glad that you have finally realized your mistake and have acknowledged it.

I had asked you on a cple occasions to verify your canadiad source with me (on LTC)..because the cigar was to suspect but you insisited it was legit.


Well i know for sure you wont be using that tool anymore.!

Its nice to make a fresh start.. Now keep your self in the loop and enjoy what this community is all about.

Oblik . . . I applaud your very sincere and heartfelt apology. I appreciate your efforts to remedy a situation that you wer ento entirely at fault for. I was not even one of your unintended "victims" but your apology is still very much appreciated and I for one have moved you up on the respect scale :smiley20:

To answer a previous post here . . . I would trade with you (Oblik) any time and would welcome you in a box pass. I just hope I make appropriate puts and takes when my turn rolls around :smiley13:

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I had asked you on a cple occasions to verify your canadiad source with me (on LTC)..because the cigar was to suspect but you insisited it was legit.


Well i know for sure you wont be using that tool anymore.!

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Is it at all possible that the supplier you got them from was "duped" as well. Your decription of the box, holograms, seals, packaging, construction seems as if it could have fooled all but the most well trained eye.

The "trickery" may go beyond your supplier :smiley25:

I'd just like to state that I know Oblik from another board and that he is in my pass which is nearing completion. Carlos took some serious heat and responded with true poise and class. A lot of people in his situation would've opted to cut and run. I know it, I've seen a few do that. Carlos is working to rectify the situation and I think that says a lot about him. While I've never had the same kind of problem as him, I'm sure that it could happen to any of us and that the only reason it hasn't, is due to pure luck when we all started out in the hobby.

P.S.- "Scarface" is an excellent movie. I couldn't help but think of your siggy as I watched "Meet the Fockers," which featured a part where the little boy was watching "Scarface" when grandpa warned Focker to not let the child watch t.v. In walks grandpa and me falling to the floor in laughter. :smiley36:

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P.S.- "Scarface" is an excellent movie. I couldn't help but think of your siggy as I watched "Meet the Fockers," which featured a part where the little boy was watching "Scarface" when grandpa warned Focker to not let the child watch t.v. In walks grandpa and me falling to the floor in laughter. :smiley36:

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One of the best movies of all time.

This is a great example of why one shouldn't waste their time buying Cuban's at this point in time.

In all sincerity I don't mean to sound like I'm saying "I told you so".

I could never understand all the supposed trouble that the Cuban manufacturers go through to make their cigar packaging difficult to duplicate. Seals, codes, holograms, etc. Because it is ALL readily available printing technology that is accessible to anyone, anywhere on the market. Even the mylar hologram seals are nothing special and I'm sure are easily duplicated. I mean we're talking about a cigar box and bands here. Not counterfeit money!

My advice, and I've said it many times. Spend your money on a great box of Dominican or Nicaraguan cigars instead. When the embargo is over, then we can all buy Cuban's with a lot less worrying.

Oblik, I admire you for your honesty. :smiley32:

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Originally Posted by MMAB

This is a great example of why one shouldn't waste their time buying Cuban's at this point in time.

In all sincerity I don't mean to sound like I'm saying "I told you so".

I could never understand all the supposed trouble that the Cuban manufacturers go through to make their cigar packaging difficult to duplicate. Seals, codes, holograms, etc. Because it is ALL readily available printing technology that is accessible to anyone, anywhere on the market. Even the mylar hologram seals are nothing special and I'm sure are easily duplicated. I mean we're talking about a cigar box and bands here. Not counterfeit money!

My advice, and I've said it many times. Spend your money on a great box of Dominican or Nicaraguan cigars instead. When the embargo is over, then we can all buy Cuban's with a lot less worrying.

Oblik, I admire you for your honesty. :smiley32:

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There are many, many people who think Cuban cigars are far superior to Dominican or Nicaraguan and if you're experienced enough with Cuban cigars and venodrs who do not sell fakes, there's really no problem here.

Many great Cuban cigars are far less expensive than "great" boxes of Dominicans and Nicaraguan cigars.

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Originally Posted by MMAB

This is a great example of why one shouldn't waste their time buying Cuban's at this point in time.

In all sincerity I don't mean to sound like I'm saying "I told you so".

I could never understand all the supposed trouble that the Cuban manufacturers go through to make their cigar packaging difficult to duplicate. Seals, codes, holograms, etc. Because it is ALL readily available printing technology that is accessible to anyone, anywhere on the market. Even the mylar hologram seals are nothing special and I'm sure are easily duplicated. I mean we're talking about a cigar box and bands here. Not counterfeit money!

My advice, and I've said it many times. Spend your money on a great box of Dominican or Nicaraguan cigars instead. When the embargo is over, then we can all buy Cuban's with a lot less worrying.

Oblik, I admire you for your honesty. :smiley32:

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On the other side of that coin is the fact that we have BOTL's on these boards to "watch our backs", so to speak. There are "trusted" vendors - ones that have been used by other BOTL's that do ship quality product, at a decent price. The FOG's on the boards know who these sources are, and will help in making sure YOU don't get ripped off. Hence, the start of this whole mess with Carlos. These guys can be especially helpful if you're not sure of your source. And I would strongly suggest you check with them, even though you think you've found a great new source. Most of these guys have traded with, or know of, the vendor and can quickly tell you if it is legit.

You do what you want as far as cigar purchases. The beauty of our society is we have a whole lot of choices. This includes the Cuban cigars (even though trading, buying or selling is illegal). Some swear by them, others can take 'em or leave 'em. Personally, I think they are a nice cigar - some of the BEST, most consistent construction I've ever seen in a cigar (something they are known for), but there are some non-Cubans that blow the socks off of most Cubans - for about the same price

But in those choices you have, there are the glass-top Cohiba's a number of people swear are legit - even though it is widely publicized they are not. And the reason we join the cigar boards, admittedly, is to learn more about our "hobby" (more like "passion" for me). Every cigar person should be able to pick out a fake from a real one (Cuban and Non-Cuban - and, yes, there ARE fake Non-Cubans). And you should be able to tell how to pick out the fakes. This is an acquired (learned) skill - certainly the easiest way is to have a legit and counterfeit side by side...

As far as seals, bands, etc. - check out eBay. From time to time there are those that post "legit" Cuban cigar bands, seals (including the hologram) and boxes. It's not hard for any of us to set up a fake Cuban operation. And there is serious money to be made in this trade - which can go virtually unpunished!!! (Even though they are ripping you off!). These boards are what protect us from being ripped off - as ugly as it gets from time to time.

Carlos - thank you for your apology - it took a LOT of guts to post that. And I saw you did it elsewhere as well... :smiley20: I hope ALL of us have learned a valuable lesson from this episode. Any one of us can make mistakes - it's really not that hard to do - especially if you're new at this game. But, if you want to be recongnized as a stand up person - accept reponsibility, make it right - and MOVE ONE!!!

And also suggest any one on this board take from Oblik's situation

- Develop a thick skin There are bound to be those out there that will piss you off!!

- Don't be arrogant or rude when things are pointed out to you, in other words, openly accept and evaluate criticism without getting your shorts in a bundle.

- Remember, this is just a cigar discussion board - nothing more!!!

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Originally Posted by ggiese

- Don't be arrogant or rude when things are pointed out to you, in other words, openly accept and evaluate criticism without getting your shorts in a bundle.

- Remember, this is just a cigar discussion board - nothing more!!!

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Amen to that! :smiley20:

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- Don't be arrogant or rude when things are pointed out to you, in other words, openly accept and evaluate criticism without getting your shorts in a bundle.

- Remember, this is just a cigar discussion board - nothing more!!!

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Originally Posted by labmonkey

Amen to that! :smiley20:

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You forgot this one...

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- Develop a thick skin There are bound to be those out there that will piss you off!!

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:smiley20:

I agree with that one also, but the two I quoted were the ones I felt that EVERYONE involved in the earlier B.S. ignored or "forgot" somewhere along the way.

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Originally Posted by labmonkey

I agree with that one also, but the two I quoted were the ones I felt that EVERYONE involved in the earlier B.S. ignored or "forgot" somewhere along the way.

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The earlier posts in this thread were well thought out ideas,contributions and points ov view by members of this community and classifing them as "B.S." is rude. So it might be nice if you'd follow the rules that you want everyoneelse to abide by.

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Originally Posted by CoventryCat86

The earlier posts in this thread were well thought out ideas,contributions and points ov view by members of this community and classifing them as "B.S." is rude. So it might be nice if you'd follow the rules that you want everyoneelse to abide by.

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The B.S. I referred to was the arguments that ensued afterwards, not the ideas or contributions of any members....and I was not talking about THIS particular thread.

CC, quit trying to pick fights :smiley24:

as ggeise put it "openly accept and evaluate criticism without getting your shorts in a bundle."

I am NOT trying to be rude, and if you are that sensitive maybe you should take ggeise's other bit of wisdom...

"- Develop a thick skin There are bound to be those out there that will piss you off!! "

Once again, I am not trying to start anything, just stating a point of view...my apologies if any comments were misconstrued, but I feel any misunderstandings were fabricated for the sake of argument in this case....once again, my point of view based on prior experience.

My main point in all of this was that I agree whole heartedly with ggeises points listed at the end of his post.

now c'mon Coventry....gimme a big 'ol hug!!!!! :smiley31:

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Originally Posted by labmonkey

The B.S. I referred to was the arguments that ensued afterwards, not the ideas or contributions of any members....and I was not talking about THIS particular thread.

CC, quit trying to pick fights :smiley24:

as ggeise put it "openly accept and evaluate criticism without getting your shorts in a bundle."

I am NOT trying to be rude, and if you are that sensitive maybe you should take ggeise's other bit of wisdom...

"- Develop a thick skin There are bound to be those out there that will piss you off!! "

Once again, I am not trying to start anything, just stating a point of view...my apologies if any comments were misconstrued, but I feel any misunderstandings were fabricated for the sake of argument in this case....once again, my point of view based on prior experience.

My main point in all of this was that I agree whole heartedly with ggeises points listed at the end of his post.

now c'mon Coventry....gimme a big 'ol hug!!!!! :smiley31:

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I did not post my comments to create a spring point for others to jump on and create new arguments. That's why I pointed out you only chose two of the three points to post in your quote. I believe each are equally important, and they should not be quoted except together and in their entirety.

I'm struggling to figure you out in this situation, LabMon"K"ey - whether you're agreeing with my post because it's good wisdom for all members of this board, or you're agreeing with pieces of my post because they suit your argument, and the rest of the post to you is meaningless. Especially when you write, "My main point in all of this was that I agree whole heartedly with ggeises points listed at the end of his post."

I would hope the first were true - but I don't think so based upon the banter that you had with CC after my post. I think CC sensed what I felt, and called you on it. Is CC wrong?



And CC - only hug this guy if he spells my name right!!! :smiley17: :smiley36:

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Originally Posted by ggiese

I did not post my comments to create a spring point for others to jump on and create new arguments. That's why I pointed out you only chose two of the three points to post in your quote. I believe each are equally important, and they should not be quoted except together and in their entirety.

I'm struggling to figure you out in this situation, LabMon"K"ey - whether you're agreeing with my post because it's good wisdom for all members of this board, or you're agreeing with pieces of my post because they suit your argument, and the rest of the post to you is meaningless. Especially when you write, "My main point in all of this was that I agree whole heartedly with ggeises points listed at the end of his post."

I would hope the first were true - but I don't think so based upon the banter that you had with CC after my post. I think CC sensed what I felt, and called you on it. Is CC wrong?



And CC - only hug this guy if he spells my name right!!! :smiley17: :smiley36:

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I absolutlely think all three of the points are good wisdom for ALL members of this board and I have no argument to support, so I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. I also had no idea we had rules regarding how we can quote...I seem to have seen lots of people use partial quotes all over this board....yourself included. But I meant no disrespect and only quoted that part to emphasize my agreement...that in no way invalidates the rest of your post and was not meant to.....you guys are touchy.....jeeeez....i cant even AGREE with you without you jumping all over me.

and sorry about the name too gg"I"ese.... :smiley36:

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Originally Posted by labmonkey

I absolutlely think all three of the points are good wisdom for ALL members of this board and I have no argument to support, so I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. I also had no idea we had rules regarding how we can quote...I seem to have seen lots of people use partial quotes all over this board....yourself included. But I meant no disrespect and only quoted that part to emphasize my agreement...that in no way invalidates the rest of your post and was not meant to.....you guys are touchy.....jeeeez....i cant even AGREE with you without you jumping all over me.

and sorry about the name too gg"I"ese.... :smiley36:

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:smiley36: Now where's that hug???

I ain't hugging no damn body. :smiley21:

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

I ain't hugging no damn body. :smiley21:

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You sound like one of the sergeants I work with - "I ain't having my locker near the 'swinging dick' lockers..." (the ones closest to the shower)


I feel like that akward moment in "Planes, Trains and Automobiles", where Steve Martin wakes up in the arms of John Candy...



:smiley31:



HOW 'BOUT THEM BEARS!!!!

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Originally Posted by cigarsarge

I ain't hugging no damn body. :smiley21:

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You were that sargeant that was featured in "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" weren't you? :smiley2: You know, the guy who pulled over Hunter S. Thompson and then offered to let him off the hook if he could get a peck on the cheek. :smiley36: :smiley36: Can't remember who played the sgt. in that movie, but he's a good actor. Nick Nolte?

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Originally Posted by labmonkey

The B.S. I referred to was the arguments that ensued afterwards, not the ideas or contributions of any members....and I was not talking about THIS particular thread.

CC, quit trying to pick fights :smiley24:

as ggeise put it "openly accept and evaluate criticism without getting your shorts in a bundle."

I am NOT trying to be rude, and if you are that sensitive maybe you should take ggeise's other bit of wisdom...

"- Develop a thick skin There are bound to be those out there that will piss you off!! "

Once again, I am not trying to start anything, just stating a point of view...my apologies if any comments were misconstrued, but I feel any misunderstandings were fabricated for the sake of argument in this case....once again, my point of view based on prior experience.

My main point in all of this was that I agree whole heartedly with ggeises points listed at the end of his post.

now c'mon Coventry....gimme a big 'ol hug!!!!! :smiley31:

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The B.S. I referred to was the arguments that ensued afterwards, not the ideas or contributions of any members....and I was not talking about THIS particular thread.

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Oh really, not this particular thread? Coulda fooled me. :smiley5:
It sure seemed to me and I venture to guess everyone else concluded that you meant this thread as well because THIS is what you said:

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I agree with that one also, but the two I quoted were the ones I felt that EVERYONE involved in the earlier B.S. ignored or "forgot" somewhere along the way.

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Well you say you are not trying to be rude but you are indeed being rude and now your being disrespectful.

I'm not being "sensitive" nor am I trying to "pick fights. I'm merely pointing out that your were being rude. On the contrary, your reaction to my post is indicitive of someone with an oversensitive personality trait.

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Originally Posted by CoventryCat86

Oh really, not this particular thread? Coulda fooled me. :smiley5:
It sure seemed to me and I venture to guess everyone else concluded that you meant this thread as well because THIS is what you said:


Well you say you are not trying to be rude but you are indeed being rude and now your being disrespectful.

I'm not being "sensitive" nor am I trying to "pick fights. I'm merely pointing out that your were being rude. On the contrary, your reaction to my post is indicitive of someone with an oversensitive personality trait.

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:smiley24: oh god....here we go again....................

look.....chill out......I am being niether rude nor disrespectful and you ARE being sensitive....I am merely expressing my opinion on the matter, and have not said anything at all in a rude way.

now as a wise man once told me...(you CC) if my posts upset you that much (which for the life of me the only reason I can figure out why is because you WANT to raise hell with me) then don't read them.

You are creating conflict where there is none, and i'm :smiley29: .........over it!

c-ya DOOD! :smiley8:

The patrolman in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" was played by Gary Busey. Gary Busey can hug me anyday!

:smiley15:

( I am a Depp fan but Bill Murray did Thompson better I think)

Oh wait....am I sidetracking this post?

:smiley2:

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Originally Posted by MMAB

The patrolman in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" was played by Gary Busey. Gary Busey can hug me anyday!

:smiley15:

( I am a Depp fan but Bill Murray did Thompson better I think)

Oh wait....am I sidetracking this post?

:smiley2:

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I don't know...I'm not the biggest Johnny Depp fan in the world, but I think he did an excellent job as thompson....Great flick two thumbs up :smiley20: :smiley20:

Benicio Del Toro was great too....