No more cigars, is that humor? LOL

[Smoked!]

The Pew Charitable Trust and Julia Isaac's report. That sure would be "plenty" of information...

Yep - your'e right - nothing on Fox...

Of course - Nothing on ABC, CBS...

Oh, Look! Nothing on NBC... Strange...

And - most importantly - nothing on CNN either !!!

...as a matter of fact. Aside from a few NPR stations carrying the info, it was nowhere else. Geez... I wonder why???

Gents,
I like this thread. I have no interest in the politics, but you may find some useful and current information on wealth published by those who deal with the wealthy. I suggest researching such sources as Merrill Lynch/Capgemini annual wealth reports (ML is now under the umbrella of Bank of America), Goldman Sachs wealth management division, and possibly Credit Suisse private banking. For starters, a quick google search returned the following: http://www.ml.com/media/79882.pdf

It is difficult to respond to an assertion that most wealthy individuals have inherited their money without first defining wealth. I know a few self-made millionaires. None inherited a significant sum from his family. Not one considers himself "wealthy."

It seems, too, that we tend to restrict our thinking to the sphere in which we travel; specifically, we think in terms of wealth in North America. A great deal of wealth and riches have been created around the globe due to the commodity boom/bust and very inexpensive credit. Just my 0.02.

[ggiese]

I suspect there was not a LOT of research put into his theory about inherited wealth...

Per Forbes (in its dicussion of the worlds 400 richest people):

Two-thirds of the members of The Forbes 400 have fortunes that are entirely self-made, while only 19% of the group inherited their entire fortunes.

Link to the Forbes article

Which leads me back to the original hypothesis put forward by my grandfather (as salty as he was)...

If you strip the wealthy and distribute it evenly - what it took to be a billioniare does not change. The billionaire will use his business saavy and prowess to again become a billionaire - most likely off of the person who does not possess that same skillset. Contrary to what some like Julia Issacs may say - history has repeatedly taught us - it more truly about passion, and much less about "silver spoons"...

[Artyman1200]

Why was I scolded for discussing politics? Is this a privilege for senior members only?

[heftysmokes]

I think a discussion about wealth and how one gets it isn't necessarily a discussion of politics and I'm hopeful those who weigh in won't lead it back that way.


George, I'm pretty sure I read your Grandpa's theory elsewhere but it was attributed to J. Paul Getty.

[ggiese]

I think a discussion about wealth and how one gets it isn't necessarily a discussion of politics and I'm hopeful those who weigh in won't lead it back that way.


George, I'm pretty sure I read your Grandpa's theory elsewhere but it was attributed to J. Paul Getty.

...and here all these years I thought it was that wiley grandpa of mine... It also explains why barry thought it to be an ignorant statement.

Long story, Arty - and I really do not have the time nor inclination to detail it here. Suffice it to say - and you're going to have to trust the community a bit on this - it is best not to discuss politics on this board.

[CoventryCat86]

Why was I scolded for discussing politics? Is this a privilege for senior members only?

They don't allow Democrats in Eastern Tennessee, do they?

[Artyman1200]

Everyone knows that the creation of wealth comes from reading "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"!

[Artyman1200]

They don't allow Democrats in Eastern Tennessee, do they?

They're allowed, they just don't want to be here...there's plenty of ignorance to go around.

[SmokinDVM]

I suspect there was not a LOT of research put into his theory about inherited wealth...

Per Forbes (in its dicussion of the worlds 400 richest people):



Link to the Forbes article

Which leads me back to the original hypothesis put forward by my grandfather (as salty as he was)...

If you strip the wealthy and distribute it evenly - what it took to be a billioniare does not change. The billionaire will use his business saavy and prowess to again become a billionaire - most likely off of the person who does not possess that same skillset. Contrary to what some like Julia Issacs may say - history has repeatedly taught us - it more truly about passion, and much less about "silver spoons"...

Oh yes, the forbes list. You do realize that the only thing that was used to qualify as inherited money was for those people to have gained ALL of it without working for themselves. The vast majority still come from old money, they just have interests of their own also. So, just because someone has a job title, doesn't mean they didn't get it due to their family social status, or that most of their money didn't come directly from inheritance.
Lets use your favorite politician as an example. Old dumbya wouldn't have made 2 cents if it wasn't for his family money and status. He never would have been accepted to ANY major college in the U.S., something about him being a complete idiot.

[SmokinDVM]

I agree with you Barry on all of these.

Barry, you point out that most of the "rich" inherited their money, what's wrong with that? Can you explain why you perceive this as a problem that needs to be remedied?

That is truly one thing I truly don't understand about liberalism/communism/socialism.

You need to reread the entire thread, but let me paraphrase.

gg said that rich people were rich because they had some innate ability to make money, and I said that that was a pile of bs. Most rich people are rich because they had the advantage of social status and wealth without really having to work for it.

Take a rich mans money and social connections away, and at the same time take someone from the opposite socioeconomic position and do the same. The ex-rich guy will be totally lost. And the other guy...just another day in paradise.

[ggiese]

Oh yes, the forbes list. You do realize that the only thing that was used to qualify as inherited money was for those people to have gained ALL of it without working for themselves. The vast majority still come from old money, they just have interests of their own also. So, just because someone has a job title, doesn't mean they didn't get it due to their family social status, or that most of their money didn't come directly from inheritance.
Lets use your favorite politician as an example. Old dumbya wouldn't have made 2 cents if it wasn't for his family money and status. He never would have been accepted to ANY major college in the U.S., something about him being a complete idiot.

...I guess you missed the part about "entirely self made".

...and I'm quite sure you have something to support your assertion that Mr. Bush would not have been accepted at ANY major college and had to rely on his family's wealth to survive. A NPR broadcast, no doubt!

Your example is very telling, though - it gets to the heart of a conspiracy I know you would like us to buy into - that our industry leaders - and EVEN the President of the United States are part of the "good ol' boy" welath passed between generations club. If you're not a member - you will not succeed.

Sorry, barry - go back and do your homework. Your "theory" doesn't flesh out. If you read the list of names in the Forbes 400 - there are no doubt a few with inherited wealth, while the majority of billionaires on that list made their money the plain ol' fashioned way - they earned it...

[ggiese]

You need to reread the entire thread, but let me paraphrase.

gg said that rich people were rich because they had some innate ability to make money, and I said that that was a pile of bs. Most rich people are rich because they had the advantage of social status and wealth without really having to work for it.

Take a rich mans money and social connections away, and at the same time take someone from the opposite socioeconomic position and do the same. The ex-rich guy will be totally lost. And the other guy...just another day in paradise.

Oh poor, poor barry...

Ok - Let us paraphrase what was said in this thread...

• You said my grandfather's observations on redistribution of wealth (take it away from the rich - give it to the poor - yada yada) were "ignorant".
  
• Heftysmokes corrected me - my grandfather's theory should be properly attributed to J. Paul Getty.
  
• So - by default I suppose - you called Mr. Getty "ignorant".

...there's something about J. Paul Getty I just can't put my finger on... Hmmm... "self made"?

The latest "theory" on the table was that Bush is only "wealthy" because of his family's "wealth". He would not have been wealthy otherwise because he was too "dumb" to be wealthy because he couldn't go to college without his parents money?

[heftysmokes]

Oh poor, poor barry...

Ok - Let us paraphrase what was said in this thread...

• You said my grandfather's observations on redistribution of wealth (take it away from the rich - give it to the poor - yada yada) were "ignorant".
  
• Heftysmokes corrected me - my grandfather's theory should be properly attributed to J. Paul Getty.
  
• So - by default I suppose - you called Mr. Getty "ignorant".

...there's something about J. Paul Getty I just can't put my finger on... Hmmm... "self made"?

The latest "theory" on the table was that Bush is only "wealthy" because of his family's "wealth". He would not have been wealthy otherwise because he was too "dumb" to be wealthy because he couldn't go to college without his parents money?

Not entirely...the family was in the oil business and was doing well before J. Paul came along. J. Paul amassed a fortune through his own industry, but the foundation of that fortune was built on his family's money.


Edit to add:

From Wikipedia...

Getty wrote a very successful book entitled How to Be Rich. Note that it was not How to Get Rich. His oil business was handed to him by his father, who started the business.

Getty acknowledges this in his autobiography:

I enjoyed the advantage of being born into an already-wealthy family, and when I began my business career I was subsidized by my father. While I did make money—and quite a bit of it—on my own, I doubt if there would be a 'Getty Empire' today if I had not taken over my father's thriving oil business after his death. (Getty, 1976, pg.336).

[heftysmokes]

Oh yes, the forbes list. You do realize that the only thing that was used to qualify as inherited money was for those people to have gained ALL of it without working for themselves. The vast majority still come from old money, they just have interests of their own also. So, just because someone has a job title, doesn't mean they didn't get it due to their family social status, or that most of their money didn't come directly from inheritance.
Lets use your favorite politician as an example. Old dumbya wouldn't have made 2 cents if it wasn't for his family money and status. He never would have been accepted to ANY major college in the U.S., something about him being a complete idiot.

You couldn't just make your argument without throwing this in could you? That, and not your political views, is why you're a douchebag.

[ashauler]

Leopards and spots.

[knightnorth]

How did Obama become powerful when his parents aren't wealthy? That doesn't make sense. Didn't George W. Bush get better grades then John Kerry at school - the same school - at about the same time? How did John Kerry become wealthy? He's spent almost his entire adult life as a public servant. Kerry's daddy wasn't rich, but oh wait, he married into wealth.

Ok I gotta try and stop talking politics I'll go on for hours.

Take a rich mans money and social connections away, and at the same time take someone from the opposite socioeconomic position and do the same. The ex-rich guy will be totally lost. And the other guy...just another day in paradise.

I saw that movie. Dan Aykroyd/Eddie Murphy - Trading Places. Classic. But still a movie like the Terminator and Space Balls.

On wealth - c'mon. We're not wealthy? We're on a computers, talking about cigars, living in America. Most of us probably drive cars and live in houses. We all probably have TVs. I personally have two very nice 19" big tube color TVs. Our daddy's didn't give us all this wealth. I drive through Washington DC every day where they use homeless people as speed bumps. I feel extremely lucky for what I have and worked hard for. Don't take that away from me by saying I must of had rich parents. We need to stop arguing semantics about who's the uber rich and middle class. That's class warfare. Rich people don't think they're rich. They just know they've worked hard for what they got. Where is the line to rich? Who makes too much money. We make what we're worth. And those that inherit it - if they don't deserve it they'll lose it. Like the Powerball winners who are broke in a year. Those that deserve it will earn it. Donald Trumps been bankrupt a couple of times - he's just too stubborn to be poor. Do not covet thy neighbors possessions or something like that. I feel take care of you're own self and the rest will work itself out.

But hey - c'mon. We're not going to change anyone's minds here. We came to talk smoke - right?

[ashauler]

How did Obama become powerful when his parents aren't wealthy? That doesn't make sense. Didn't George W. Bush get better grades then John Kerry at school - the same school - at about the same time? How did John Kerry become wealthy? He's spent almost his entire adult life as a public servant. Kerry's daddy wasn't rich, but oh wait, he married into wealth.

Ok I gotta try and stop talking politics I'll go on for hours


I saw that movie. Dan Aykroyd/Eddie Murphy - Trading Places. Classic. But still a movie like the Terminator and Space Balls.

On wealth - c'mon. We're not wealthy? We're on a computers, talking about cigars, living in America. Most of us probably drive cars and live in houses. We all probably have TVs. I personally have two very nice 19" big tube color TVs. Our daddy's didn't give us all this wealth. I drive through Washington DC every day where they use homeless people as speed bumps. I feel extremely lucky for what I have and worked hard for. Don't take that away from me by saying I must of had rich parents. We need to stop arguing semantics about who's the uber rich and middle class. That's class warfare. Rich people don't think they're rich. They just know they've worked hard for what they got. Where is the line to rich? Who makes too much money. We make what we're worth. And those that inherit it - if they don't deserve it they'll lose it. Like the Powerball winners who are broke in a year. Those that deserve it will earn it. Donald Trumps been bankrupt a couple of times - he's just too stubborn to be poor. Do not covet thy neighbors possessions or something like that. I feel take care of you're own self and the rest will work itself out.

But hey - c'mon. We're not going to change anyone's minds here. We came to talk smoke - right?

Yeah.....what a bunch of bullshit. I have no need for your condescending "we are all wealthy" shit. I have no need for "life lessons" and class definitions or any other such "can't we all get along" crap.

When you typed the last sentence in your post, you should have realized the pointless nature of everything before it. Unless of course you're just trollin'. In which case we'll know soon enough.

George said it earlier:

snip..... Long story, Arty - and I really do not have the time nor inclination to detail it here. Suffice it to say - and you're going to have to trust the community a bit on this - it is best not to discuss politics on this board

My advice is to take his wisdom to heart and read some previous posts by the members in this thread. Then make a decision if you want to involve yourself in this.

[SmokinDVM]

You couldn't just make your argument without throwing this in could you? That, and not your political views, is why you're a douchebag.

those shit-stained fuckers must be knotted up real tight.

[SmokinDVM]

Oh poor, poor barry...

Ok - Let us paraphrase what was said in this thread...

• You said my grandfather's observations on redistribution of wealth (take it away from the rich - give it to the poor - yada yada) were "ignorant".
  
• Heftysmokes corrected me - my grandfather's theory should be properly attributed to J. Paul Getty.
  
• So - by default I suppose - you called Mr. Getty "ignorant".

...there's something about J. Paul Getty I just can't put my finger on... Hmmm... "self made"?

The latest "theory" on the table was that Bush is only "wealthy" because of his family's "wealth". He would not have been wealthy otherwise because he was too "dumb" to be wealthy because he couldn't go to college without his parents money?

I knew there would be those here too ignorant to understand a simple fact.
Getty a self made man
And I'd bet none of those billionaires on forbes list had help from any family money or name either.

[ggiese]

You couldn't just make your argument without throwing this in could you? That, and not your political views, is why you're a douchebag.