ebay and rh beads

[BenjiM]

So, I did a search and nothing helpful came up, feel free to point me in the right direction if I missed something. I know the guy that owns Heartfelt is a member of the forum and everyone seems to buy their beads from him. I was wondering if anyone has bought the beads off of ebay? Are they the same?

[bigwhiteash]

I've never purchased beads from eBay, so I'm not much help there.

You can find a great deal on rh beads at bargainhumidors.com

LINKY

These are essentially the same as heartfelt, at about 1/2 the price.

[craig]

There are quite a few types of beads. All silica beads should work, but do not perform equally. The best performing beads for the RH ranges that we are interested in consist of Silicon dioxide tempered with Lithium Chloride, and are made by Fuji Silysia under the ArtSorb brand name. I know Mark at cigarmony.com - n2adventure on these forums - uses these beads because he has posted the performance data of his RH Beads and Puckifiers in one of my threads elsewhere (that also beat this subject to death ).

I believe that Heartfelt uses the same SiO2/LiCl beads, but I do not know for sure. His bead sheet material looks exactly like Fuji Silysia's ArtSorb bead sheet product, though.

I have no experience with the ConservaGel beads, but given the first sentence of the copy is an outright falsehood and the rest of the copy seems to make about as much sense as most cigar catalog ad copy, I wouldn't bother.

Note that SiO2/LiCl beads are generally not used for museum conservation, as there are better salts to use with Silica in the RH ranges that conservationists prefer (The SiO2/LiCl beads were developed by Fuji for museum use in Japan, when the ambient RH is 90%).

I also wouldn't bother with eBay beads because you don't know what you're getting. There are large price variations among bead types, and guess which type is the most expensive ...

The least expensive are Silica beads with no added salt, a.k.a. pearl kitty litter. These will work fine as well, you just need more beads than SiO2/LiCl beads, and you have to condition them yourself. (Conditioning is setting the RH point that the beads will work at, e.g., 65%.) The process is described on conservation sites. It is simple, but time consuming. The hard part is knowing when to stop, and that takes some practice to get right (well, it took me a few attempts before I had the RH that I wanted . ).

I have Heartfelt beads, sheets, and many pounds of kitty litter. They all work, but all work much better when combined with active humidification, e.g., CigarOasis or Hydra.

The main advantages of Heartfelt and Cigarmony beads is that the beads are conditioned to a given RH for you, and the customer service from both places is very good. Buy'em, spray'em, and use'em. The convenience is worth the price difference for many.

If you want 70%RH, some super-absorbent-polymers from a local crafts store or garden center, plus some prop. glycol from your local pharmacy, is the best bang for the buck.

[SmoknTaz]

Some great info there Craig, thanks!

When I first ventured down the "Slippery path" not long ago, I ordered some 70% beads from ebay. They worked as advertised w/o fail. My only issue with them were that they broke down and became very grainy like sand after a couple of months.

Since then after going through a bit of a "Learning curve" (not over yet) I ordered some 65% beads from Heartfelt. These beads are GREAT and worth the money. Think of them as basic insurance for your "Priceless treasures." It's all about experimenting and finding what works for you. Good luck in your search and have fun.

[BenjiM]

Holy Crap!

Craig, that kind of info is why people come to forums. Thanks for giving some actual facts. This will really help me and hopefully a lot of other people make a better decision.

[WOXOF]

There are quite a few types of beads. All silica beads should work, but do not perform equally. The best performing beads for the RH ranges that we are interested in consist of Silicon dioxide tempered with Lithium Chloride, and are made by Fuji Silysia under the ArtSorb brand name. I know Mark at cigarmony.com - n2adventure on these forums - uses these beads because he has posted the performance data of his RH Beads and Puckifiers in one of my threads elsewhere (that also beat this subject to death ).

I believe that Heartfelt uses the same SiO2/LiCl beads, but I do not know for sure. His bead sheet material looks exactly like Fuji Silysia's ArtSorb bead sheet product, though.

I have no experience with the ConservaGel beads, but given the first sentence of the copy is an outright falsehood and the rest of the copy seems to make about as much sense as most cigar catalog ad copy, I wouldn't bother.

Note that SiO2/LiCl beads are generally not used for museum conservation, as there are better salts to use with Silica in the RH ranges that conservationists prefer (The SiO2/LiCl beads were developed by Fuji for museum use in Japan, when the ambient RH is 90%).

I also wouldn't bother with eBay beads because you don't know what you're getting. There are large price variations among bead types, and guess which type is the most expensive ...

The least expensive are Silica beads with no added salt, a.k.a. pearl kitty litter. These will work fine as well, you just need more beads than SiO2/LiCl beads, and you have to condition them yourself. (Conditioning is setting the RH point that the beads will work at, e.g., 65%.) The process is described on conservation sites. It is simple, but time consuming. The hard part is knowing when to stop, and that takes some practice to get right (well, it took me a few attempts before I had the RH that I wanted . ).

I have Heartfelt beads, sheets, and many pounds of kitty litter. They all work, but all work much better when combined with active humidification, e.g., CigarOasis or Hydra.

The main advantages of Heartfelt and Cigarmony beads is that the beads are conditioned to a given RH for you, and the customer service from both places is very good. Buy'em, spray'em, and use'em. The convenience is worth the price difference for many.

If you want 70%RH, some super-absorbent-polymers from a local crafts store or garden center, plus some prop. glycol from your local pharmacy, is the best bang for the buck.

Excellent post Craig.

[bigwhiteash]

Very nice post indeed!

I will add that I, and others I know have used the conservagel beads for quite some time with zero detectable difference from the heartfelt item. I have used both for close to two years in different coolerdors with the exact same performance. just food for thought

Someday, I'd like to condition some kitty litter, but my needs haven't advanced past the four pounds of beads I'm currently using.

[craig]

Very nice post indeed!

I will add that I, and others I know have used the conservagel beads for quite some time with zero detectable difference from the heartfelt item. I have used both for close to two years in different coolerdors with the exact same performance. just food for thought

Someday, I'd like to condition some kitty litter, but my needs haven't advanced past the four pounds of beads I'm currently using.

Interesting!

"performance" - a whole 'nother topic! Without controlled tests, I've found it impossible to differentiate how much the beads are taking care of the cigars, versus the cigars taking care of the beads My solution for coolerdors was to store all cigars inside boxes, only store boxes inside the coolerdor, and keep the volume of airspace to a minimum by using something like old glass jars to occupy space.

[bigwhiteash]

Interesting!

"performance" - a whole 'nother topic! Without controlled tests, I've found it impossible to differentiate how much the beads are taking care of the cigars, versus the cigars taking care of the beads My solution for coolerdors was to store all cigars inside boxes, only store boxes inside the coolerdor, and keep the volume of airspace to a minimum by using something like old glass jars to occupy space.

It's actually quite simple...

If the hygrometers in both coolers remain steady for about the same length of time, and at the specified rh, it's plenty good enough for the storage of cigars.

This subject is WAAAY over-analyzed IMHO. Find something that works, and fits your budget, and run with it. No need to delve into quantum physics over something that until the last 30 years was often handled by slices of apple in your humidor.

I store boxes, singles in trays made from the bottom of boxes, singles in plastic bins from wal mart, coffins, whatever and wherever they fit in the coolers, I'd say 90% of the volume is occupied at any given time. Beads are stored in 2 or 3 glad storage containers with holes drilled in the lids, spread throughout each cooler, no active humidification.

I do however, live in the south, where humidity can average from 80% to 95% for long periods in the summer, and drop to the low 40's and below in the winter. this REALLY gives the beads a workout. I keep about 1.5 lbs in each cooler for this reason.

[FactoredReality]

Interesting!

"performance" - a whole 'nother topic! Without controlled tests, I've found it impossible to differentiate how much the beads are taking care of the cigars, versus the cigars taking care of the beads My solution for coolerdors was to store all cigars inside boxes, only store boxes inside the coolerdor, and keep the volume of airspace to a minimum by using something like old glass jars to occupy space.

I have a few of those plastic bags of air that I use in my coolerdor to take up extra space.

[craig]

It's actually quite simple...

If the hygrometers in both coolers remain steady for about the same length of time, and at the specified rh, it's plenty good enough for the storage of cigars.

This subject is WAAAY over-analyzed IMHO. Find something that works, and fits your budget, and run with it. No need to delve into quantum physics over something that until the last 30 years was often handled by slices of apple in your humidor.

I store boxes, singles in trays made from the bottom of boxes, singles in plastic bins from wal mart, coffins, whatever and wherever they fit in the coolers, I'd say 90% of the volume is occupied at any given time. Beads are stored in 2 or 3 glad storage containers with holes drilled in the lids, spread throughout each cooler, no active humidification.

I do however, live in the south, where humidity can average from 80% to 95% for long periods in the summer, and drop to the low 40's and below in the winter. this REALLY gives the beads a workout. I keep about 1.5 lbs in each cooler for this reason.

I respectfully disagree - somewhat. I use the metrics the conservation people use, e.g., how quickly the item recovers after its environment has been disturbed, as opposed to how long an environment can be maintained.

I guess how anal one wants to be depends on whether you're interested in storing cigars for days vs. months vs. years vs. decades, cello on vs cello off, American practices vs. RoW, when to store at 60% vs. 65% vs. 69% vs 72%, storage temps, Cubans vs. non (well, not really, but it is a convenient proxy for tobacco high in tannins), a/c or not, type of home heating, etc.

However, I think that we both agree that the short answer is: use 65% beads, use more than the minimum, use them in a cooler, and keep that cooler fairly full