Any custom computer builders out there?

**ggiese** · 05-24-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by MarineOne

Oh where to begin?

First thing first .... I've been building/rebuilding computers since the early 1990's. Some of the computers I've worked on are the Zenith Z-248, Kaypro 8086/8088, ALR, AST, Packard-Bell, Banyan CNS, and of course today's mainstream stuff like Dell, Compaq, HP, Gateway, etc. My first custom build was a Pentium 120 MHz white box I used for playing StarCraft. I have a Zenith 300 baud modem, a Pentium 60 motherboard and chip, and a Compaq "Lunchbox" 386/16 running Windows 3.1 on an amber screen that I use as memento's from my early days in IT.

Second, I don't like your "indirect" statement that I haven't done my research on this cooler. I already know about it because one of my hobbies is online gaming. I either create parts lists or will hands on build a system for my friends that are gamers and are members of either of the two gaming guilds that I've been a member of for almost 10 years now.

Third, this TEC cooler turns itself on to provide additional cooling once the CPU hits 50% of it's operating temps. Intel CPU's run hot because of how they're built, which means it will always be running at 50% of its operating temp, so the Peltier will always be on because the CPU will always be running hot.

OMG - a trip down memory lane!!! Windows 3.1 on an amber screen - 300 baud modem (although mine was a Radio Shack - which is still in one of my closets because it's an antique now) - Kaypro!!! Holy crap!!! CPM stuff!!! eight inch floppies!!! Optical drives!!! It's all coming back!!! I don't know if I have it in any of my junk piles, but at one time I was in possession of the first production memory boards - carbon rings wrapped with copper wires. I don't quite remember all of the mechanics of it, but it was revolutionary at the time!

I forgot all about those, but it certainly brings back memories! Thanks for trip down memory lane!!!

Dreadog - you're in the presence of the trailblazers. Take your due place in that lineage, but don't forget from whence you came...

**MarineOne** · 05-25-2009, 02:35 AM

LMAO !!!

You know, I've got an 8 inch floppy from a Telex 274 mainframe controller.

-K

**daredog4** · 05-27-2009, 02:09 PM

Well im taking on a new build for my brother. He asked me to put a price on an entire new setup with all the hardware including the monitor, speakers, and mouse/keyboard and the OS and software all priced together. I managed to come up with (what i think) is a fairly decent system for around 1000. Since I have not done an entire system recently (just upgraded mine when it was needed) I didn't realize how much a good system costs these days. It also makes me wonder how the name brands like Dell, Compaq, HP, and others get their prices so low. They must be putting the cheapest components they can in theirs. It would be nice if most people would realize that the only thing they are buying that is Dell, HP, etc.....is the case. Everything else is cheapo crap for the most part.

I figure since you guys have been doing this way longer than me you could give me some pointers on the hardware. Here is a list of the parts I have been considering. My only real requirement is that it has to be close to or less than 1000.

Case CoolerMaster Centurion 5 CAC-T05 Black with side window $59.99

Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX $119.99

Power Supply Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550 Watt ATX 12v $99.99

CPU Intel E7400 Wolfdale 2.8Ghz LGA775
$119.99

Memory G-Skill 2GB (2x1 GB) 240 Pin DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) $34.99

Graphics Card HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD4670 IceQ Turbo 512MB$74.99

Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar SE 320GB 8mb Cache 7200RPM SATA 3.0$49.99

DVD Drive Sony Optiarc Black DVDR/RW 24x/8x/12x
$26.99

Keyboard/Mouse Logitech LX 710 Laser Black USB
$64.99

Monitor Acer X223Wbd Black 22" Widescreen 5ms
$149.99

Speakers Creative Inspire T3100 2-Way with Subwoofer
$49.99

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3 OEM $89.99

Virus/Firewall ESET Smart Security 1 year subscription $59.99
Total
$1,001.87

**badwhale** · 05-27-2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by daredog4

Well im taking on a new build for my brother. He asked me to put a price on an entire new setup with all the hardware including the monitor, speakers, and mouse/keyboard and the OS and software all priced together. I managed to come up with (what i think) is a fairly decent system for around 1000. Since I have not done an entire system recently (just upgraded mine when it was needed) I didn't realize how much a good system costs these days. It also makes me wonder how the name brands like Dell, Compaq, HP, and others get their prices so low. They must be putting the cheapest components they can in theirs. It would be nice if most people would realize that the only thing they are buying that is Dell, HP, etc.....is the case. Everything else is cheapo crap for the most part.

I figure since you guys have been doing this way longer than me you could give me some pointers on the hardware. Here is a list of the parts I have been considering. My only real requirement is that it has to be close to or less than 1000.

snip

Maybe its the difference of you buying, let's say, 1 MoBo at 160 bucks, and Dell buying 40,000 @ 60 bucks? I believe its called retail vs. wholesale.

I'll be interested to see if anyone comments on your build list, as I think you can build something pretty kickass for 1grand.

Will

**daredog4** · 05-27-2009, 09:01 PM

Yeah that is a good point. I should not say that everything they use is junk but lately i have been replacing parts on my wifes HP and some of the stuff that has been crapping out i can not even recognise the brand name of.

And about the build, i just priced it from Newegg because i have had good luck with them and their prices are pretty competitive. However, if one of you guys knows of a better place or some type of combo deal if you buy several components together i would sure be up for that. As you can see I am an Intel fan and i don't think anyone can change my mind on that, but I am open to all other suggestions.

Thanks

**mrtr33** · 05-28-2009, 10:17 AM

The only thing I see that I probably would drop would be the firewall software. I have had much more luck with hardware firewalls - a good router will do the trick. Take that $60 and buy a good Linksys router. It will be easier to troubleshoot, upgrade, won't bog your system down, and won't bombard you with subscription updates and upgrades.

I guess it would ultimately come down to what your brother wants to do with a computer. Is he going to play games with it? What kinds? Some games require that your system be top of the line, other games require that your network connection be top speed. It just depends. Is he going to be doing software development? Again, it will depend on what kind of software he's writing. If it's CSS/XML stuff, he won't need much. If it's high-end XNA/C# stuff using MVS2K8, well, he'll need more of a system. Most of the time, however, these machines are used for relatively "light" computing - it's basically an e-mail machine that can also play movies. Because he's getting a 22" screen, I'm guessing he's not even going to be watching movies.

If you find the above to be true, I would argue that it's much more beneficial to buy a Dell laptop. They can be had for around $500, and you'll probably get 3 years out of it if he takes good care of it. But again, it just depends on what he's going to do with it.

My 2 cents.........

**daredog4** · 05-28-2009, 07:03 PM

My brothers wife will primarily be using it. She is enrolled in a bunch of online classes. Also they download and play a lot of music. I don't know if they will use it much for gaming since my brother has a Nintendo Wii but it is a posibility. Im sure they would really like a bigger monitor but with the budget i was given i hated to sacrifice performance for screen size. Granted that with most of what they will be doing they won't need the perfomace as much but after having had both types myself, you really appreciate the speed/performance when you are using certain applications. There is nothing worse than trying to use several programs at one time and having the thing bog down. I will be sure to mention the laptop though. We have a Toshiba that i really like. With the advances in the memory and processor speeds, and wifi connectivity I have really learned to like them. My wife takes ours to school everyday for notes and for research. Most campuses nowdays have wireless internet. My next project is to hook up a wireless router in my home so she can sit and watch her favorite soap and surf the web at the same time. Man i love technology!

**Shelby07** · 05-28-2009, 11:02 PM

I think that building a system from scratch makes very little sense unless you have a very specific use in mind that a OTT system won't satisfy. I'd rather buy a pre built system and upgrade the pieces I need when I need them. Eventually even the fastest computer out there will be obsolete.

**MarineOne** · 05-29-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by daredog4

I figure since you guys have been doing this way longer than me you could give me some pointers on the hardware. Here is a list of the parts I have been considering. My only real requirement is that it has to be close to or less than 1000.

Case CoolerMaster Centurion 5 CAC-T05 Black with side window $59.99

Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX $119.99

Power Supply Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550 Watt ATX 12v $99.99

CPU Intel E7400 Wolfdale 2.8Ghz LGA775
$119.99

Memory G-Skill 2GB (2x1 GB) 240 Pin DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) $34.99

Graphics Card HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD4670 IceQ Turbo 512MB$74.99

Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar SE 320GB 8mb Cache 7200RPM SATA 3.0$49.99

DVD Drive Sony Optiarc Black DVDR/RW 24x/8x/12x
$26.99

Keyboard/Mouse Logitech LX 710 Laser Black USB
$64.99

Monitor Acer X223Wbd Black 22" Widescreen 5ms
$149.99

Speakers Creative Inspire T3100 2-Way with Subwoofer
$49.99

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3 OEM $89.99

Virus/Firewall ESET Smart Security 1 year subscription $59.99
Total
$1,001.87

You did really good for someone that's never done a build before. Let me make a couple of recommendations that will help make this rig a bit better.

Lose the CoolerMaster case in favor of the Antec Three Hundred. It's a dollar or two less, plus free shipping. The other plus is you get more cooling options with the Antec case and it's 3 fans versus the CoolerMaster and it's one "okay" fan. Oh, and sell or give away the power supply that comes with this case .... you won't need it.

Skip the Gigabyte board in favor of an Asus. If you'd like I can give you a couple good model numbers. I'd also lose the G-Skill RAM in favor of some Corsair XMS for about the same price.

For an LCD, the Acer is okay .... I would go with a Samsung. I've got the 206BW and it's about a year old, but it's an incredible LCD.

For the Logitech mouse, try the G5 wired mouse as its weight adjustable, cheaper than the 710, and it's still a laser.

For the power supply, replace the Corsair with one from PC Power and Cooling, like the 650 watt version. This is where alot of people will go cheap and ruin a decent computer with a sub-par PSU. I used to be a fan of cheap power supplies until I had one let go and took a motherboard, CPU, 2 optical drives and a hard drive with it when it exited the building. Your power requirements will run the Corsair 550 watt near it's max so you'll need to bump it up.

Lastly, get AVG for your anti-virus. It's lighter (uses less resources) and you can get updates hourly, daily, or weekly.

I didn't look at the CPU, but make sure you get a "retail" processor instead of an "OEM". The big difference here is the "OEM" version doesn't come with a heatsink so you'll need to drop another 30 to 50 bucks for a good quality heatsink fan combo.

I'd also get a small tube of Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound and use it instead of the stuff that comes on the heatsink. I've had more than a few heatsinks fuse themselves to a CPU .... I've even got some good scars from using a razor knife trying to separate them.

If you need help or advice, just ask. The only stupid question is the one you won't/don't ask.

Kris

**daredog4** · 05-29-2009, 11:26 AM

I was considering the Antec, so i think that will be my first switch. I have heard their cases are very heavy duty and are easy to use. I priced the Corsair PSU because i purchase an 850 watt for my case earlier this year and i have really liked it, plus they come with a great warranty. I will defenitly consider the PC Power and Cooling model. I have also heard good things about Thermaltake PSU's.

And about the RAM, i think the speed on those were 1066 Mhz. Is that going to be sufficient? The BUS speed on the processor is also 1066. I think the board supports up to 1600 but im not sure. What Asus boards would you suggest? I think I had looked at a few models in the P5Q line. I don't know that I will be doing much overclocking, mostly because I don't have much experience and i don't want to fry anything.

I will also take a look at the monitor and mouse you suggested.

Thanks

**Kenyth** · 05-29-2009, 03:52 PM

I quit building rigs a long time ago. Pre-built is cheaper, has a better warranty plan, and doesn't cost you in unpaid time. Hobby enjoyment is the only compelling reason to buld now.

Sure, cheapo Dell's are crap, but they're fully warrantied crap and comparable in quality to most of the economical PC builder parts on the market. I've had decent name brand parts fail just as often. I get a feeling most of the discrete components for low to mid range parts are all manufactured at the same factories. The only significant quality increase you see is when you go for the premium parts, and they cost a pretty penny. In my experience, the worst parts for failure are main boards (followed closely by mechanical HDD's), and the most common component failures on the mainboards are the electrolytic caps in the voltage regulator circuits for the various MB component power supplies. If you identify the bad one's in time, and are handy with a soldering iron, you can even replace them yourself! Electrolytic caps are one of the more expensive discrete components, so it's easy to see why they are used in as minimal a fashion as possible to save money. Since they are made by the cheapest bidder, and engineered to constantly run at their maximum specs, they fail. Why? The marketing point of MB's is the chipset. Who buys mainboards because of quality capacitors?

**daredog4** · 05-29-2009, 05:16 PM

I know where you are coming from. However, lately i have been finding out that alot of the warranties these days are becoming more and more shady. You have to jump through hoops to register your product and if you ever have any problems you have to sit with your ear glued to a phone for 6 hours while they take you through all the tests and diagnostics so that they know for sure what the problem really is........eventhough you have already pinpointed the problem yourself. Infact I am so tired of warranties that at this point i would rather pay twice the price for something that lasts twice as long.

As far as the quality of components I agree completely. When i had to replace my PSU I did a ton of research about what types of components the varius brands used. Websites like Toms Hardware, Tech Support Forum, and many others have great reviews and actually take the item apart to see what the guts are comprised of. I think more and more people are starting to pay attention to those things, realizing that one small little capacitor can be the downfall of a three hundred dollar item.

But i still greatly enjoy tinkering with PCs and will enjoy building one for my brother. It may end up being way over priced compared to a premade system but i will have made it and will know every component thats in it.

**Kenyth** · 06-01-2009, 07:30 AM

Dell, by far, has the best warranty support I've experienced. I can have a new part overnighted within an hour. At the same time, some of the worst parts I've experienced came from Dell. I guess it's a toss up. Building PC's and spending the money is fine, if it's a hobby you enjoy. I'm just saying if you're trying to save money, buy pre-built and a decent warranty.

fubulrup · 09-25-2009, 09:52 PM

I'm very interested! I would love to find out more inforamtion related to this topic. Thanks in advance.
me too, I need more detailed info

**badwhale** · 09-25-2009, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by fubulrup

I'm very interested! I would love to find out more inforamtion related to this topic. Thanks in advance.
me too, I need more detailed info

Welcome from Spamville, PA

**MarineOne** · 09-26-2009, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by fubulrup

I'm very interested! I would love to find out more inforamtion related to this topic. Thanks in advance.
me too, I need more detailed info

Wassa matter you? You got dem multiple personalities problem?

-K

**hex1848** · 09-26-2009, 07:55 AM

He made it through the filter.. Sneaky...

**MarineOne** · 09-28-2009, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by hex1848

He made it through the filter.. Sneaky...

And he goes DEEEEEEPPPPP over the wall into right field!!

Nice job on booting him.

**Kenyth** · 09-29-2009, 09:07 AM

Dude! You still in Iraq? Don't they give you the occasional stateside tour?

**Kenyth** · 09-29-2009, 09:12 AM

BTW, Dell refurb replacement warranty parts (MBs in particular) are still crap. I'm thinking all they do is replace the burned out caps and clean them up before sending them out again. They last maybe a year before going bad again.