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Thread: Are you a member?

  1. #1

    Default Are you a member?

    Cigar Rights of America

    I'm a natural skeptic who doesn't take well to being blindly led. Until today, I would not affiliate with CRA because they would not answer "what exactly do you do?" to my satisfaction. Today, Glynn Loope, Executive Director of CRA answered me most satisfactorily. I joined this morning. Here is the thread on CP where this was posted.


    Please forgive the delay in this response to the discussion regarding CRA, which I've actually enjoyed reading, and been looking forward to posting this reply. First, like anything that touches the political arena, I believe all those that enjoy great cigars should be a part of this process, whether through CRA or their own personal actions. This is truly the "perfect storm" with regard to tobacco issues, at every level of government.

    Smoking ban and taxation battles loom across the country, and it will only get worse. It's the reason CRA exists, and the reason the industry came together to form it. From a personal perspective, it's one the largest industries of its kind without a grassroots movement to back it up. We intend to change that. First, "what are we doing?" and why should you join? Let me put this in some perspective.

    As I lobbied for the Cigar Association of Virginia before joining CRA, I stated that the cigar industry needed to politically allign themselves with forces greater than themselves. They needed to team up and build coalitions, in order to win on the issues most important to it. That has been the cornerstone of my strategy since joining the organization in December '08. "What are we doing?": I have been meeting with organizations, developing research and executing a new approach to building coalitions for the industry. That includes: Meeting with the National Restaurants Association, American Gaming Association, Licensed Beverage Councils, National Federation of Independent Businesses, and communication with groups such as the US Chamber and related pro-business groups that philosophically ought to be allies of the cigar industry.

    Further, I have met with the embassies of Honduras, Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic to address the role of this industry in their national and regional economies. We intend to work with them to convey to Congress that further adverse taxation and regulatory measures from them, will do (more) harm to the Central American economy, and the related supply chain in this nation, all the way to the local community cigar shop.

    Without strong support from the retail tobacconist community, it will be far more difficult to have an effective effort for CRA. To that end, we launched the National Tobacconist Program, which has as its centerpiece the Great American Cigar Shop program, which will simultaneously be a political network for cigar retailers, and offer a new marketing venue via the CRA web site for your community cigar shop. It also includes the first ever advisory board for retailers across the country to be engaged in the work of CRA. We have now built an electronic network that has been engaged in tax and smoking ban battles in over a dozen states, while working to link retailer and consumer, to the elected officials in their respective capitol or courthouse, with the same being the case at the federal level.

    We launched the creation of the Cigar Rights Political Action Council, as a means for our Ambassador program participants to be more involved in the local political process. There are smoking ban battles in over a dozen states, and OTP tax battles in another dozen. To that end, we are teaming up with groups such as state tavern and bar associations, gaming associations, cigar bars and lounges, and where they accept our position, restaurant associations to fight or work to roll back existing smoking ban statutes. Just today, I was on the phone with the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority on such a bill, and the same with fighting tax legislation in Florida, working to team up with the Florida Chamber of Commerce.

    We are gradually building a national network of retailers and consumers that have proven to be quite responsive to our calls to communicate with elected officials on pending legislation. We're also working to form state retailer associations, such as the new effort in North Carolina, and with technical assistance in another half-dozen states, as well. This will allow tobacconists at the state and local level to form their own political action committees, and hence begin more direct involvement at that level. We are connecting them to legal and lobbying representation, and facilitating meetings with concerned parties throughout the country. We are also providing model legislation for exemptions and amendments to existing legislation, that work in the favor of retailer, consumer, and manufacturer.

    As for SCHIP and what I read here, it certainly is not true that "they" said to "be happy" with the .40 per cigar. In fact, every person close to this battle was fighting any tax at all, and/or fight for the best possible deal with Congress. Believe me, NO ONE close to this industry is happy with the current SCHIP rate or process, which has only been further complicated by the plethora of state OTP increase proposals. It's (SCHIP) also what helped bring them together for the next fight...and there will be another.

    As for Matt and "blind adherence," I wouldn't follow any organization with such "blind adherence" either. But I would work to be involved; to be engaged in the process; and yes - give time and resoures toward the fight to preserve the "right" to enjoy a cigar in those places that also welcome me. Yes, there is power in numbers, and yes, we want to demonstrate a strong political base to get our message across. That is PoliSci 101.

    I further believe that one should give to a cause that works to defend something that presents the solitude that enjoying a cigar does for one's life. As another "tangible" in that regard, I would hope that in short order, that CRA can properly capitalize its Political Action Committee so that it can be directly engaged in supporting and defeating candidates for public office based upon their views on "our issues." That will, indeed, come.

    Secondly, I want to see CRA create a Legal Defense Fund, to that we can begin engaging some of these smoking ban battles in court. If you follow the CRA web site, in the last 60 days, numerous smoking ban battles have been taken to court, and we should be a part of that process, too. That is not a "brazen" request for money. That's putting dollars to work to defend our ability to enjoy cigars, to help elect politicians that can assist our cause (and defeat them, as well), and building a national network of retailers and consumers, working on concert with the manufacturers, for the good of this cause. Nothing "clandestine" about that. We want to win, Gary. I believe that's explaining, in part, what funds would be used for. But there's more.

    Yes, we're throwing some parties, participating in Big Smokes, giving away some tee shirts and working on some "fun" events for members. That's just good outreach; good marketing; and membership development. There will be dinners, cigar events with manufacturers, and opportunities to promote the issues close to us, while having a cocktail and cigar. Further, for that $35, CRA members are about to have the opportunity to have (less transportation) expense covered trips to the Latin American countries producing those cigars. Through our new State Cigar Rights Clubs, and a national drawing, we will be giving away over a dozen trips to Honduras, Nicaragua, Bahamas and the Dominican Republic, so that members can see first hand, what goes into making those cigars you enjoy. Further, we're about to roll out the first "members only" cigars, where our member manufacturers are blending cigars just for CRA and its members. Sorry, you have to be a member to get them. It also has its privilages.

    We will be adding a section to the web site soon on how you, personally, can be engaged in the process on the issues closest to us. It will be a section dedicated to the "how we work," to some degree. One thing is for sure, though, in short order we hope to galvanize cigar smokers across the country that are tired of nanny government dictating where we can enjoy a cigar, and tired of targeted taxation that can destroy an economic staple of this hemisphere's economy. We can change some elections, and we will. Just ask "former" state senator Brandon Bell of Virginia, and I would be glad to send you the story of how one local cigar shop changed an election. That's money well spent - creating a "former" state senator and the godfather of smoking ban legislation in Virginia.

    We will keep this forum posted on our efforts, and we hope that you will be a part of that process....It's going to be exciting.
    J. Glynn Loope, Executive Director
    Cigar Rights of America
    Bruce

    Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
    Hanlon's Razor


  2. #2
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    Too much reading. I'll just go along with whatever you say.

    Will
    The powers that be might take it all away
    Together we burn, together we burn away

    Uncle Tupelo

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by badwhale View Post
    Too much reading. I'll just go along with whatever you say.

    Will
    Believe me, I'd be the first person to ream him for being verbose, but it was a very necessary essay.
    Bruce

    Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
    Hanlon's Razor


  4. #4
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    ....MORE skeptical than EVER before......


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  5. #5

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    cliff notes?

  6. #6

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    Jeeze, what a bunch of slackers!

    Read the post. Its worth it.
    Bruce

    Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
    Hanlon's Razor


  7. #7
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    I read it. I just don't agree with it. I stated my overall opinion, and moved on. I wouldn't even mind editing and forming some "Cliff Notes", but I don't think I could do it without bias.

    Just to clarify.


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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtr33 View Post
    I read it. I just don't agree with it. I stated my overall opinion, and moved on. I wouldn't even mind editing and forming some "Cliff Notes", but I don't think I could do it without bias.

    Just to clarify.
    I'm not looking to sway you, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
    Bruce

    Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
    Hanlon's Razor


  9. #9
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    To keep in line with the long-winded them of the post.....

    The CRA sounds like a union to me. I have never been a member of a union where I felt they were ever looking out for my best interests. In several cases, I was required to pay member dues as a condition of employment, when I knew non-union members working for other organizations not only had better benefits, but better pay as well. I chose to work where I did because I believed in the work I was doing (at the time – another story). The point being, the union only acted in a way that would keep the union alive – its members be damned. If they could have appealed their case to people outside of their organization as to the necessity of their purpose, they could have potentially had a better argument for existence.

    The CRA has “met with the embassies of Honduras, Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic to address the role of this industry in their national and regional economies”? Did we need the CRA to tell them that? According to the CIA World Factbook, along with coffee and sugar, the DR and Nicaragua base their economy on exporting tobacco. Nicaragua and Honduras are some of the poorest companies in the western hemisphere. They would gladly welcome any opportunities to export any of their wares to Americans, and abroad. I’m not quite sure we need the CRA to explain this to them. What kind of sway does the tobacco industry of these countries have with the United States Congress? Again, these are individuals close to the tobacco industry. To generate mass support, you need to appeal to a broader constituent base. Cigar smokers rallying with fellow cigar smokers only interest other cigar smokers to their interests.

    Just so I understand clearly: The Cigar Rights Association launched the National Tobacconist Program, whose main effort is then the Great American Cigar Shop program. Why all the bureaucracy? For a small-store tobacconist to join, there are two membership levels: platinum ($200) and gold ($100). I understand the networking potential, and being part of a voice that represents the small tobacconist, but aside from that, what does a CRA Key Tag do to further the plight of the CRA? It’s the little knick knacks that really get to me. Who else is going to see that Key Tag but other cigar enthusiasts? Better yet, where else would you wear a CRA shirt that would appeal others to the cause? A cigar store? Aren’t you again, as they say, “preaching to the choir”?

    Furthermore, t-shirts, “members only” cigars, and events I can’t physically get to, or would be financially impossible for me to attend don’t entice me, either. I can see the potential benefit of some kind of event to generate funding for the cause, but this is the cigar industry, not a political candidate or charity organization we are talking about. Simply put, I can’t understand how the inclusions of these membership gimmicks generate membership. I probably am not interested in the cigars, unless they get Carlos and Carlito (who are on the CRA Board of Directors) Fuente to produce some kind of super-cigar for this cause. Even if I could afford to fly to Connecticut tomorrow, and then stay at a hotel somewhere, then pay to get into Big Smoke, would I want to smoke cigars with complete strangers? What do I have to say to Jorge Padron or Rob Levin, should I even get the chance to talk to them? Probably nothing. That isn’t what cigar smoking is about to me – it’s about relaxing with friends, talking, enjoying a drink or playing some cards. Besides, the t-shirt more than likely won’t fit me, anyway.

    I think this fight to secure cigar smoker rights is misdirected. We don’t need to be appealing our case to other cigar smokers – a protest does nothing. Neither does combining efforts nationwide with other cigar smokers – no matter how prominent their stake within the cigar industry may be. The fight lies in convincing the voters – and more specifically, the non-smoker - that the rights of cigar smokers are valid. The anti-tobacco lobbyists have done a tremendous job convincing the general public how terrible smoking is, and the best retaliation we come up with is a rally amongst ourselves? This starts locally – not nationally. Each state’s laws work differently, and each smoker may have their own ideas on the limits of smoking laws. I, for one, am happy that smoking is banned in restaurants. I don’t like smelling the smoke where food is served. "Fair-trade" coffee has had an appeal on the coffee industry - could something like that be pursued in the tobacco industry? Maybe make more of an appeal for local action to take place - everyone on my street smokes, and I can smoke in almost every bar here in town. We had a tobacco event not too long ago, but I was unable to attend. I did send a few non-smokers, and they loved it! The point being, it seems like we've established cigar smoking as a kind of "higher class" of tobacco consumer. Maybe we need to use that to our advantage in appealing to others. That's all I'm saying.

    I just find it a hard concept to swallow – on one hand; I’m paying a higher tax for my tobacco now, with SCHIP, stating my allegiance to the tobacco industry. Then, I can pay membership dues to CRA, further cementing my beliefs in my rights as a cigar smoker. But when was the last time you paid tax on an out-of-state online purchase? There is no doubt that its taxes like these that target the local B&M tobacconist, while turning a blind eye to online retailers. As stated by ironpeddler in CP, it’s not worth it to the government to eliminate tobacco altogether – not only is the lobby strong, but people love their tobacco! They are simply getting as much from us as they can.

    In closing, they are appealing their case to the wrong demographic. Seeking to extend tobacco rights amongst only smokers will only get you half of the members you need.


    Age Quod Agis

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  10. #10

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    Can't someone just illustrate everything that was said in the OP with a PICTURE!!!

    I can't read

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtr33 View Post
    To keep in line with the long-winded them of the post.....

    The CRA sounds like a union to me. I have never been a member of a union where I felt they were ever looking out ...

    <snip>
    Ok by me.
    Bruce

    Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
    Hanlon's Razor


  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtr33 View Post
    To keep in line with the long-winded them of the post.....



    In closing, they are appealing their case to the wrong demographic. Seeking to extend tobacco rights amongst only smokers will only get you half of the members you need.
    I did not want to quote the entire post again as it is there to read the first time. I have studied the CRA and they have indeed missed the real point of what is needed and I agree with your point of view. While something like the CRA needs to exist they have failed by not thinking outside the box in furthering the rights of cigar smokers by excluding those people they need to convert or at least attempt to get information out to.

  13. #13
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    Does a tree that falls in the forest make a sound when there is no one there to hear it?

    While a united voice is whats needed, they need to model themselves more like the NRA and use that "united voice" to go after these insane tax laws and bans. After reading this, the CRA has a good idea but they fail on taking the next step, which is going after those that want the bans and taxes and swear to God that smoking is evil.

    Just like converting someone who isn't Pro-2A and taking them to the range, the CRA needs to target those against tobacco by introducing them to good times with good friends smoking good cigars.



    -K

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