Humidors, ministers, kaelarias, and the way some cigar communities work
Okay, Kaelaria doesn't understand why this community was - and is - so negative to Humidor Minister. Here's why, IMHO.
First of all, let's look at the product:
- the exterior work is beautiful;
- it is not clear how what he makes works as a humidor, as the construction norms do not agree with what is done on all other high-end humidors;
- he started making humidors a few months ago, so there is no track record; and
- he has posted (on CP) information that demonstrates that what he has made doesn't work as well as other high-end humidors work.
Now, none of the above would matter if a hobbyist was making a humidor for himself, or a few buddies, etc. However, this isn't the case at the moment. $800+ gets you a humidor advertised as being "heirloom-quality." That's a high standard, and his humidors don't appear to work like humidors that sell in that price range. Aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder, of course, and I'm not commenting on that. Some folks may have no problem paying for something beautiful that in some ways appears to work no better than an import that costs 1/10th the price.
So, that's the product side; let's look at the person.
- he joined boards as soon as he started making humidors, yet says he was smoking for years before that (nine, IIRC). Evidently, there was no reason to join communities beforehand.
- since joining, he has aggressively marketed his humidors and his expertise, all the time as a hobby.
- people who gently questioned whether he should be in the vendor section were repeated ignored.
- only after being bluntly called out by multiple folks did he even entertain being considered a vendor, and even then, it required admin intervention to force him to post as a vendor, and he still didn't appear to understand why.
- once on the vendor side, he revealed that he was making money. Now, the line between 'hobby' and 'part-time source of income' is legally/morally vague, but we are talking about over $600 income per humidor, net of materials (based on the numbers he posted at CP). Add in the income from ashtrays, and I wouldn't call it a living, or even a good business model, but it is a part-time source of income, IMHO.
All that happened before he joined here.
A quick digression about this community. Cigar boards like this one rely on some simple principles. First, when it comes to B/S/T, you don't make a dime - a penny even, off of your fellow BOTL. People who ask for $5 shipping get called on the carpet (the cost is $4.80). If you get a deal on some cigars, you pass on your exact cost or less, not what the market will bear. You don't pass on any auxiliary costs (gas to the post office, packaging, etc.) Essentially, if you are selling cigars and making any profit, then you should not be selling here - unless you are a vendor - and even vendors will get called out if they gouge.
Another principle is one's participation in the community is exactly that - participation. Giving, not taking. Every couple of months, there will some person coming on here for the sole and/or primary purpose of selling something - often it is <cough> a Canadian selling some Cohiba's that they bought cheap on a beach in Cuba. These people are not treated well - anyone who is suspected of trying to benefit from the community is not treated well.
Now, as noted above, Humidor Minister was called out rather bluntly over at CP. He then signed up here. The timing is a bit too coincidental, don't you think? His motives were immediately questioned, questioned hard, and, to be blunt, a pile-on ensued. Why? Two reasons: 1. the history was already known; and 2. it appeared that Humidor Minister didn't grasp the principles above, i.e., he doesn't "get it," to use a term often stated on cigar forums such as this one. (www.cigarbbguide.com is a good newbie guide to such terminology, and further explanations about communities like this.)
Now, I'm sure that Humidor Minister is a fine person. Communications often get misinterpreted when based solely on forum interaction. All of us can only go by what is written. There are other communities - other cigar communities - where he has been, and will be, welcomed. However, the history and what appeared to be his sense of what it meant for him to belong to a community meant that he really didn't belong in this particular community, given the community's standards for integrity. That may change in the future, and that hope has been expressed. People change, communities change. However, personal integrity never changes.
I hope this helps - maybe it will help more to re-read the threads in question now, making light of the more tobasco parts - because I don't think I'm saying anything new, just saying it differently. This is just MHO. YMMV.
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Originally Posted by ashauler
I don't think you'll find any instances of me baiting anyone, if you can, please post them up. Confronting dishonest individuals with questionable character.....yep, I'm guilty of that. Also people that come here to take from the community as opposed to being contributing members are similarly confronted, not just by me, but rather by the community. 
Now I'm hurt. For some reason though, I don't think I'm the only one you'll have to be putting on ignore since you refuse to answer any of the questions posed to you.
- I can only rename the post now.
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