How long did it take for you to develop your "nose"?

[Devil Doc]

Sweet, so now you're in a good mood.

Cigars don't all taste the same to me, and I would assume they don't to you either. Is taste not a subjective thing?

Of course they all don't taste the same. If they did I wouldn't need so much damn humidor space.
I grew up in my grandmothers variety store. Mini-Mart to you young fellas. Back in those days we sold over 100 brands of cigarettes. Blind, I could identify many of them. Hey, I couldn't smoke them all. With cigars, if you were to give me a Dominican puro, Nic Puro, Honduran Puro (this one might be a problem) and a Cuban, I am reasonably certain I could identify which was which. But none of them would taste like essence of chocolate or sweet cocoa. They would taste like what they were, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, and Cuban tobacco. They are all quite distinctive to me. People should concentrate their efforts on being able to distinguish those attributes, the flavors that come from the soil, not getting frustrated by not being able to taste what those hacks at CA tell us we should taste.

Doc.

[prophetic_joe]

I believe it is 90% marketing and 10% people sucking at talking. But scientifically it is possible for the same molecule that is responsble for say, the taste of citrus, to be found in a cigar. Whether this happens at a discernable level is a matter of debate (obviously). Again, marketing and people talking out their ass. Also, complex flavors like leather and oil are more difficult to describe than one dimensional flavors. I love the art/science barrier. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

See this is basically what I was meaning. There are things we taste in a cigar but you just can't put into words what it is so you grasp at something to describe it. It would really make it difficult to describe the experience to a non-cigar person by saying "Well a cigar taste like a cigar" it's like when you say a certain meat tastes like chicken, it really doesn't taste like chicken you can just pick up similarities and so because your brain can't come up with a better way to describe the experience you say "it tastes like chicken".

As far as Cubans and Cuban Americans thinking we're crazy for tasting what we taste, I have personally spoken to some of the cigar makers that were formerly from Cuba and they describe their cigars in similar ways. Now while I know this is marketing a bit but if the guys who make the cigars can't come up with a better way to describe the smoking experience to other guys that have actually smoked their products there probably is something to it.

Like I said it's like tastes like chicken, it's not exactly the same but there is something in the flavor that gives your brain a similar reaction. And every cigar does taste different.

[buzz]

I can't stand it when someone says they taste cocoa in their cigar... oh man that makes me so mad!

[badwhale]

<snip> if you were to give me a Dominican puro, Nic Puro, Honduran Puro (this one might be a problem) and a Cuban, I am reasonably certain I could identify which was which. But none of them would taste like essence of chocolate or sweet cocoa. They would taste like what they were, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, and Cuban tobacco. They are all quite distinctive to me. <snip>Doc.

Again, I'm not big on trying to match what I'm getting from someone else's flavor profile description, and some of the real oddball descriptors are ridiculous but what's wrong with going about distinguishing between tobacco origins making a mental attribute based on a flavor you recognize?

We are almost done with another Puro Pot Pass here, and this year there were a bunch of losers, including myself.

For me (and I know you're gonna love this!):
Nicaraguan: The level of pepper like spice sensation is what I recognize with these.
Honduran: More of a balance of sweet tobacco, and some bitter oil. Not as spicy.
Dominican: For me, the oil or bitterness defines these. Kind of the sensation the skin on a shelled walnut gives.
Cuban: The best way I can describe it is a saltwater taffy aftertaste. It's more a sensation. Not the candy, sugar like aspect, the saltwater part.

I don't sweat it if I don't taste hints of caramel and toffee with a touch of orange peel in a Padron '26. I can see your angle too that over time, you should be able to light one up, sit back and say, "that tastes like it has a lot of Nicaraguan tobacco in it...and based on the smoothness and complexity, they used some very choice aged tobacco in it"...or maybe just "mmmm, that tastes goddamn good"

Will

[mrtr33]

....and what if we've never read Cigar Aficionado?

All cigars only ever taste like tobacco to me. That's why I smoke cigars, and not Mars bars.

I'll admit I don't have as sophisticated of a palate as many do here. But there is no other way for me to plainly describe the taste I detect. Is it chocolate I taste? No, of course not. Is it a flavor I closely associate with chocolate? some kind of spiciness? leather? It's a flavor I can associate to what I'm experiencing - not so much that exact flavor. That's left up to my white owl smoking experiences. It's what I experience. Maybe one day, I'll be able to characterize my cigars by the soil they come from. Today, I associate with flavors I'm more familiar with. It's also important to note that it's only what things taste like to me - not necessarily to you.

Wine is the same way - I might pick up the following scents in both smell and taste: floral, berry (other than grape - strawberry, currant, blackberry), spice, etc. Did they infuse my wine with flowers? Slip a bottle of Boone's Farm in my stash? No. It's how I can describe what I'm tasting.

I mean, there's no other way I know to put it.

[prophetic_joe]

....and what if we've never read Cigar Aficionado?

All cigars only ever taste like tobacco to me. That's why I smoke cigars, and not Mars bars.

I'll admit I don't have as sophisticated of a palate as many do here. But there is no other way for me to plainly describe the taste I detect. Is it chocolate I taste? No, of course not. Is it a flavor I closely associate with chocolate? some kind of spiciness? leather? It's a flavor I can associate to what I'm experiencing - not so much that exact flavor. That's left up to my white owl smoking experiences. It's what I experience. Maybe one day, I'll be able to characterize my cigars by the soil they come from. Today, I associate with flavors I'm more familiar with. It's also important to note that it's only what things taste like to me - not necessarily to you.

Wine is the same way - I might pick up the following scents in both smell and taste: floral, berry (other than grape - strawberry, currant, blackberry), spice, etc. Did they infuse my wine with flowers? Slip a bottle of Boone's Farm in my stash? No. It's how I can describe what I'm tasting.

I mean, there's no other way I know to put it.

I think he put his idea out there better than me but this is exactly, 100% what I mean.

[Devil Doc]

The esters responsible for flavors in wine and scotch actually exist in those two drinks, and are not destroyed when consumed. I don't believe they do in tobacco and even if they did, it wouldn't take a degree in organic chemistry to realize what happens to organic compounds when set on fire.

Doc.

[ashauler]

Of course they all don't taste the same. If they did I wouldn't need so much damn humidor space.
I grew up in my grandmothers variety store. Mini-Mart to you young fellas. Back in those days we sold over 100 brands of cigarettes. Blind, I could identify many of them. Hey, I couldn't smoke them all. With cigars, if you were to give me a Dominican puro, Nic Puro, Honduran Puro (this one might be a problem) and a Cuban, I am reasonably certain I could identify which was which. But none of them would taste like essence of chocolate or sweet cocoa. They would taste like what they were, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, and Cuban tobacco. They are all quite distinctive to me. People should concentrate their efforts on being able to distinguish those attributes, the flavors that come from the soil, not getting frustrated by not being able to taste what those hacks at CA tell us we should taste.

Doc.

No disagreement here. I do, however, think there are valid comparisons between the flavors tasted in tobacco and other familiar tastes/aromas.

For an example, sweetness or sugar, or particularly burnt sugar. I can see where a tobacco strain with a high sugar content, if processed in a manner to preserve the sugar content during fermentation, might remind one of a burnt sugar taste.

[ashauler]

The esters responsible for flavors in wine and scotch actually exist in those two drinks, and are not destroyed when consumed. I don't believe they do in tobacco and even if they did, it wouldn't take a degree in organic chemistry to realize what happens to organic compounds when set on fire.

Doc.

Indeed tobacco does contain sucroester to varying degrees. Here's a link to one strain of burley tobacco's chemical analysis:
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/obs.pl?1129698

[buzz]

They better not be putting flowers in my floral-tasting wine/scotch...

or easter eggs.

[Mizicke5273]

I can't stand it when someone says they taste cocoa in their cigar... oh man that makes me so mad!

I take offense to that. I've tasted coco in a few cigars. Now it might not be choco chocolatey chocolate truffles, but some hints of coco none the less.

Now I'm beginning to think you don't like my reviews. Guess I'll be sitting the next MEGA Review out.


Btw ->


There have been times where I'll pick up a flavor I can't describe too well, so I do my best. And I may come up with an obscure description like coco or citrus, but normally those are only "hints of" that particular flavor or are reminiscent of it.

[buzz]

For the next Mega Review your choices of taste will be limited to: slight tobacco, faint tobacco, hints of tobacco, and tobacco.

[WinstonSpencer]

The esters responsible for flavors in wine and scotch actually exist in those two drinks, and are not destroyed when consumed. I don't believe they do in tobacco and even if they did, it wouldn't take a degree in organic chemistry to realize what happens to organic compounds when set on fire.

Doc.

Combustion doesn't necessarily decompose all organic compounds into "tasteless entities". Not only can combustion create new molecules (e.g. salts) but preexisting volatile organic compounds can adsorb to larger solid particles in smoke and therefore travel to your taste receptors.

Also, I would love to get to the point where I could comfortably say "this tastes like Honduran tobacco" but IMO that is a much more esoteric descriptor than "chocolate" and much less specific.

[buzz]

I think this might explain where Doc is coming from. Definitely no cocoa taste from those Kinky's.

[Devil Doc]

I think this might explain where Doc is coming from. Definitely no cocoa taste from those Kinky's.

You got too much time on your hands. There were no Kinky Friedman cigars in existence at the time of that post. If you're going to be the board clown, ya got to do better.
Edited to add: Your the only poster who hasn't made a cogent argument in defense of your position. Just wise ass remarks. Now I understand that, I'm a board clown on other cigar boards, but once in a while you need to show you got something between your ears besides swiss cheese. Just a little friendly advice from someone who has just a touch more experience than you. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

Doc.

[buzz]

You got too much time on your hands. There were no Kinky Friedman cigars in existence at the time of that post. If you're going to be the board clown, ya got to do better.
Edited to add: Your the only poster who hasn't made a cogent argument in defense of your position. Just wise ass remarks. Now I understand that, I'm a board clown on other cigar boards, but once in a while you need to show you got something between your ears besides swiss cheese. Just a little friendly advice from someone who has just a touch more experience than you. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

Doc.

Thicker skin, Doc - thicker skin. I know you think you are wiser than everyone else here, but lighten up.

By the way, poking fun at your condescending attitude towards people who like to describe cigar tastes using words like "chocolate" isn't being a clown.

[Devil Doc]

Not everyone Buzz, just you.

Doc.

[ashauler]

Of course they all don't taste the same. If they did I wouldn't need so much damn humidor space.
I grew up in my grandmothers variety store. Mini-Mart to you young fellas. Back in those days we sold over 100 brands of cigarettes. Blind, I could identify many of them. Hey, I couldn't smoke them all. With cigars, if you were to give me a Dominican puro, Nic Puro, Honduran Puro (this one might be a problem) and a Cuban, I am reasonably certain I could identify which was which. But none of them would taste like essence of chocolate or sweet cocoa. They would taste like what they were, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, and Cuban tobacco. They are all quite distinctive to me. People should concentrate their efforts on being able to distinguish those attributes, the flavors that come from the soil, not getting frustrated by not being able to taste what those hacks at CA tell us we should taste.

Doc.

Why not try it in the Puro Pot Pass? Tell ya what, I'll add a 5'er to the prize pack if you play and win.

[nhcigarfan]

I can sometimes taste flavors but I attribute it more to the smoke/leaf combo triggering multiple taste bud types at the same time and in roughly the same quantity as the flavor it is mimicking. Like sweet and bitter along with a thicker smoke gives 'hints' of cocoa.

That's about as much thinking as I'm going to do on the subject.

[mrtr33]

You got too much time on your hands. There were no Kinky Friedman cigars in existence at the time of that post. If you're going to be the board clown, ya got to do better.
Edited to add: Your the only poster who hasn't made a cogent argument in defense of your position. Just wise ass remarks. Now I understand that, I'm a board clown on other cigar boards, but once in a while you need to show you got something between your ears besides swiss cheese. Just a little friendly advice from someone who has just a touch more experience than you. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

Doc.

This is uncalled for. So is this entire rant about others opinions. If you don't share the same opinion, that's fine. But to label the rest of us as antagonists in your "crusade against those who would perpetrate their pathologhy, gustatory hallucinations, upon the more rational among us." is ridiculous.

I would point out two things to you gentlemen. If you weren't a cigar smoker prior to CA's inception, you've been influenced whether you read the rag or not. And two, from what I've read and personally experienced, Cuban and Cuban Americans think we're nuts for tasting the things we think we taste in cigars.

Doc.

More bullshit. My father-in-law, who introduced me to cigars, is a very descriptive person when it comes to flavors - be it food, cigars, wine, coffee, whatever. I don't share his opinions. But I certainly don't ridicule him for it. You should hear the crazy terms he uses to describe flavors. I certainly don't share them, but it's interesting to hear what flavors he gets from them. My father thinks that cigars taste like shit. He describes flavors of putrid crap, like diapers full of Indian food over flooding a septic tank near a paper factory. I don't share those flavors with him, either, but respect his opinion and his tastes.

Now I can stop worrying about it and just relax and continue to enjoy a good cigar without feeling like I'm lacking in something, or losing out on something.

This seems to be the overall attitude all other posters have had in this thread - no one smokes cigars for a chocolate taste, or spiciness, or lemon sour ball flavor. They smoke because the aromas and experience is pleasurable to them. That's what's great about this hobby - it's completely subjective and only the smoker is left to discern their opinion. Disagreeing with a opinion is one thing - ridiculing it is something different.

Of course they all don't taste the same. If they did I wouldn't need so much damn humidor space.
I grew up in my grandmothers variety store. Mini-Mart to you young fellas. Back in those days we sold over 100 brands of cigarettes. Blind, I could identify many of them. Hey, I couldn't smoke them all. With cigars, if you were to give me a Dominican puro, Nic Puro, Honduran Puro (this one might be a problem) and a Cuban, I am reasonably certain I could identify which was which. But none of them would taste like essence of chocolate or sweet cocoa. They would taste like what they were, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, and Cuban tobacco. They are all quite distinctive to me. People should concentrate their efforts on being able to distinguish those attributes, the flavors that come from the soil, not getting frustrated by not being able to taste what those hacks at CA tell us we should taste.

Doc.

Probably the most sensible post you've made in this thread thus far. No one else is attacking your opinion. You portray yourself as this wise old man, referring to everyone here as a "young fella", but you're leaking respect in this thread. Lighten up a little. Wisdom and experience go a long way only sometimes.

And if you think it's just Buzz, you're not paying attention to other posts that have been made in other threads.

ETA: It's not that I personally wouldn't prefer to identify the origin of the tobacco I'm smoking - quite the contrary. One of the reasons I brought back the Puro Pot Pass was an effort to help everyone identify the cigars they were smoking. I asked for almost a mini-review of each blind puro smoked, in an effort to capture the smoker's experiences in smoking that puro. Badwhale pointed out some taste consistencies above that I agree with. So it's certainly not that we're keeping a blind eye towards the flavor profiles we're experiencing, and are trying to improve.
The same goes with growing the tobacco - that was an incredible experience for me, to watch that process develop. My only regret was that I didn't salvage any of that dried tobacco to make something smokable. It's not like I'm not trying to develop my expertise in this hobby.