Am I a smoker?

[BigDaddyJG]

I'm almost 39 years old and I have spent my whole life hating cigarettes. I took 2 puffs once when I was drunk at a party in high school. Coughed my head off. I thought cigars smelt like dog turds. I wouldn't even date girls that smoke.

But several months ago I was at a friends house and he was smoking a cigar. For the first time I thought it smelled good. Needless to say I have been enjoying cigars ever since. I have 2 humidors full and I'm looking for a larger one. I only smoke once or twice a week though. I enjoy it when I can relax and sip on some Crown Royal.

My doctor told me that he would categorize anyone that smokes cigars more than once a month as a "smoker". Of course, I didn't tell him I smoke cigars. But I was floored.... How could I be put in the same category as a 2 pack a day smoker. I don't even inhale. The doctor's forms ask "do you smoke... Never, always and used to". What!!??!! That was the only choices? Ugh!!

What do you think? I'm I a smoker? Do you consider yourself a smoker? Do you agree with the doctors assessment?

[Roham]

In my opinion, you're not. And if I where you, I wouldn't listen to what any ONE has to say, but listen to every one, and make your own decision....


There is a difference between an art form that is hand rolled, grown without pesticides etc, wrapped in a totally natural leaf, not meant to be inhaled cigar and a machine rolled, mass produced, chemically infused, dried, wrapped in PAPER and meant to be inhaled cigarette......

The mass public groups cigars with cigarettes because they are ignorant, as they are with a lot of things in this world:(


Whats the deal with the life insurance in America guys, I heard on this board years ago that there is an amount you can smoke(cigars) before THEY consider you a smoker.....

[craig]

If you smoke inside, then, even if you don't directly inhale, you're typically the same or worse than a cigarette smoker for all-cause mortality, as the quantity of second-hand or slipstream cigar smoke is much higher than typical quantities of cigarette smoke (and you inhale that second-hand smoke. One corona-sized cigar has more smoke than a pack of cigarettes). The idea that "no inhaling" doesn't affect lung cancer rates only applies if you smoke outside or in an extremely well-ventilated area. (A/C or flitration/smoke-eaters don't count, unfortunately. Think big noisy box fans exhausting outside.) YMMV - search Medline and learn for yourself.

[ggiese]

If you smoke inside, then, even if you don't directly inhale, you're typically the same or worse than a cigarette smoker for all-cause mortality, as the quantity of second-hand or slipstream cigar smoke is much higher than typical quantities of cigarette smoke (and you inhale that second-hand smoke. One corona-sized cigar has more smoke than a pack of cigarettes). The idea that "no inhaling" doesn't affect lung cancer rates only applies if you smoke outside or in an extremely well-ventilated area. (A/C or flitration/smoke-eaters don't count, unfortunately. Think big noisy box fans exhausting outside.) YMMV - search Medline and learn for yourself.

I hear this argument occasionally from various parts of the medical community, but there does not seem to be any studies or correlation between cigar smoke and instances of disease particular to cigar second hand smoke. And there is controversy with the studies on second hand cigarette smoke as being accurate (though I have to admit that I really do enjoy not being "smoked out" of any public place I like to go).

If you review the list of chemicals and other "add-ins" in cigarette smoke and compare that to the list in cigar smoke - I think it is fair to say that cigarette smoke is far more detrimental than cigar smoke. Besides - cigar smoke smells much nicer than cigarette smoke, wouldn't you agree?

Finally - my doctor (I believe) gave me sage advice about smoking cigars. He told me that it is not the act of smoking a cigar that is hazardous to a person, it is the way in which cigar is smoked that is detrimental. His meaning: if a cigar smoker is not "excessive" and only "occasional", with smoking the cigar for the sole purpose of relaxing and reflecting - the health benefits outweigh the risk of disease.

[craig]

Lots of studies of smoke (incompletely burnt organic matter). Doesn't make a huge difference if it is leaves, wood, BBQ, etc. Slipstream exposure is a quantity thing, and cigars produce a lot of smoke. Ventilation is a good thing. I used to think high-quality filtration was good enough (it gets cold here,eh?), but I just read a study a couple weeks ago that showed high-quality filtration of cigarette tobacco smoke had no (statistically significant) effect on childrens' asthma episodes, so ...

As for controversy, the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement exposed the documents showed that the controversy was generated by tobacco companies. Deliberate manipulation - and still floating around the Internet.

The chemicals in cigarettes have some effect, but not as much as would be intuitive in terms of slipstream smoke. Almost the entire tobacco industry doesn't use food-grade fertilizer, and tobacco needs a lot of fertilizer. Hence there is radon exposure, albeit at low levels - however ground radon exposure is also low-level, and it is scary to map ground radon levels vs. cancer incidence rates. (As an aside, make sure your basement is sealed if you live in a high radon area! We have maps here, I'm guessing USGS must have similar). Secondly, once/if the FDA gets control of tobacco, you'll see what's really in cigars. We may not be smoking Acids, but there are cigars that have tobacco that has been 'helped' (because the FDA-equivalents in other countries do get the ingredients, but it is considered proprietary and not publicly available).

As for your doctor, moderation in many things is healthy, even if more is detrimental!

[ashauler]

snip........ Almost the entire tobacco industry doesn't use food-grade fertilizer, and tobacco needs a lot of fertilizer. snip........

Um, well, tobacco is indeed a glutton, however, I'm not exactly sure what you would consider "a lot" of fertilizer.

To what "food grade" fertilizers do you refer? Fertilizers that are appropriate for use on tomatoes are applicable to tobacco since they are in the same family.

[Devil Doc]

I met an 87 yr. old woman over the weekend. She still chain smokes Benson & Hedges and has for 70 years, My sister-in-law died in her mid forties from lung cancer. She never, ever smoked anything. I suspect there's a lesson to be learned there.

Doc

[craig]

About a ton an acre for Virginia tobacco, but I took soil science 30 years ago, so my memory is not that great.

And, I made an error, as food-grade is not the right term because that means something else. What I meant was, the kinds of phosphate fertilizer used in tobacco production are (hopefully) not used for food or feed production. Within the US, the source is, IIRC, apatite from the south-eastern US. Other countries have other sources.

General discussion of the American context (US EPA): http://www.epa.gov/radiation/sources...rial_cigarette Note the end note. Nobody really knows what is in US-market cigars.

... and Doc, the normal curve is bell_shaped, not brick-shaped. What is applicable to the population does not apply with certainty to any individual. Somebody wins the lottery, it doesn't mean that everyone will win the lottery. Some people taste chocolate in cigars; it doesn't mean you will. ;-)

[ggiese]

In youth - I jumped on theories and believed them to be Gospel. Wisdom, though, comes a healthy amount of skepticism. For example - eating mashed potatoes causes criminal behavior. I can produce research that seems to bear that out, but is it true?

I don't know what this "slipstream smoke" issue is, but I do know that it is not best to be in a smoky environment where the source of the smoke is something that is laden with chemicals. Intuition (and scientific studies that back up that intuition) tells me there's a greater chance of developing some serious health issues after sucking in smoke that somes from that burning plastic chair, versus an equaly quantity of smoke from a burning cigar. Someone bitching at me because they live 3 doors down and "smell" my cigar smoke and it's a "health hazard" is just plain old CRAZY!!!

And to Doc's point - bell shaped or brick shaped curve aside. I know those individuals that smoke like a chimney and have no apparent ill effect - yet I know others that have seemingly smoke free lives that caused lung cancer. Intuition (backed up by scientific study) shows there is definitely a genetic component to disease process, and not everyone is affected by smoke in the same way. Intution leads me to the conclusion that a smoke free environment would be better than a smoke filled environment to decrease the chance that those genetically susceptible to disease are not unusually exposed.

[JiveTurkey]

Well by definition one who smokes a cigar is a smoker. But, I would definitely agree there's a huge difference between the typical cigar smoker and typical cigarette smoker, when it comes to frequency, health, compulsion, etc. Of course there are exceptions to each. It's not fair or accurate to lump most cigar smokers and the very occasional cigarette smoker with the stereotypical, pack or two a day, cigarette smoker.

[BigDaddyJG]

Maybe I'm just in denial but I'm not a smoker. I can live with herfer though.

[Roger]

I often wonder how much car pollution attributes to cancer... Sometimes I wonder if that is more problematic than cigars and cigarettes together. It seems to me that focusing on smoking may be an alternative to causing the auto industry and oil companies from getting hit with lawsuits. Everyone is effected by gas fumes and smog but now adays very limited groups are effected by cigar and cigarrette smoke. When or if they make smoking illegal where will they place the blame for lung cancer next? Just a strange thought

[badwhale]

Maybe I'm just in deneil but I'm not a smoker. I can live with herfer though.

You smoke cigars. You're a smoker. The problem you have is you've attached a stigma to smoking...just like the anti-smoking camp.

Will

[ggiese]

I am of the philosophy that the leading cause of death is living.

[BigDaddyJG]

You smoke cigars. You're a smoker. The problem you have is you've attached a stigma to smoking...just like the anti-smoking camp.

Will

I'm only commenting on the stigma to smoking that my doctor has told me about. He is the one with the stupid questions. Are you a smoke Never, always and used to. Ha. I will continue to enjoy my cigars but it is no ones business if I'm asked if I smoke. The answer is NO and I'm good with that. I feel that i need to work on the other areas of my life that will kill me, like: eating to much and not exercising. I'm a big guy and I don't want to be a diabetic. Cigars help me relax. When I sit down for a hour or more with a stogie, it's like deflating the stress for awhile.

[ggiese]

I'm only commenting on the stigma to smoking that my doctor has told me about. He is the one with the stupid questions. Are you a smoke Never, always and used to. Ha. I will continue to enjoy my cigars but it is no ones business if I'm asked if I smoke. The answer is NO and I'm good with that. I feel that i need to work on the other areas of my life that will kill me, like: eating to much and not exercising. I'm a big guy and I don't want to be a diabetic. Cigars help me relax. When I sit down for a hour or more with a stogie, it's like deflating the stress for awhile.

You need to see my doctor. He is of the opinion that smoking is only assessed by the act If you consume a pack of cigarettes a day - you're a smoker if you have an occasional cigar to relax - you're not,

To all those haters - put that in your pipe and smoke it!