Please help me understand high quality vs low quality tobacco

**Combat_chuck** · 04-27-2013, 12:17 PM

Hey everyone, im new here so idk if this gets asked all the time, but i couldn't find the answer by searching. And im sorry for such a long description but im hoping to get an answer to a very specific question because its kinda the key to all my cigar choices and i can only find very general descriptions on the internet.

Im wondering what it is that makes good quality cigar tobacco or low quality tobacco. I know a lot of it is personal taste, but mostly what im referring to is the harshness some cigars have. Example: i like mild and smooth cigars (my favorite is RP vintage 1999 Connecticut) so i ordered a sampler pack touting mild and mellow cigars. It was $30 for 20 of them so i wasn't expecting them to be top of the line; however i did like 3 of the brands. But when i got to the last brand i hadn't tried it was very harsh and mostly flavorless. I know sometimes this can caused by low humidity but i put that cigar out after about half way through and went and grabbed a Cuba Libre One (very dark wrapper) out of the same humidor and i was MUCH better. I know you cant go entirely by the wrapper color, but its not that this Cuba was light and mellow but it was so much smoother and there were flavors other than harsh smoke/tar flavor. Ive also found RP vintage 1992s to be wonderful in the same sense even though they are heavier than i prefer.

So i guess what i actually like is just high quality tobacco rather than a particular type or flavor. But i dont think i can just go by price (or can i?) and i certainly cant go by the product description on a website because they all are described as the greatest cigar in the world. There must be something that distinguished harshness vs heaviness or flavor.

Does anyone know a way i can figure out the quality of tobacco used in a cigar before i buy it? If so, thank you!

**craig** · 04-29-2013, 12:45 AM

The kind of cigars you refer to (mild) typically use a Connecticut Shade wrapper. The best CT shade wrappers are almost like silk in appearance, with barely-noticeable veins.

Of course, it isn't a perfect indicator, but it would be rare for a manufacturer to use a gorgeous wrapper with low-quality filler. Compare the wrapper on a Davidoff to a RP 1999. The Davidoff is Silk, the RP is plastic.

An additional complication is wrappers may be dyed('painted') or mechanically pressed to improve appearance.

**Combat_chuck** · 04-29-2013, 03:03 PM

Well, the problem is that they all look good in the pictures and i used to go by the Connecticut rule, but i asked this because that didnt work. Besides, i have found that more mild i prefer smooth and ive had that come from every type of wrapper. Maybe a certain type of filler or binder tends to be harsh?

**Cody44** · 04-29-2013, 04:29 PM

As for the quality, I would imagine that it would stem directly from the seeds that were used to grow a certain type of tobacco and differences in soil between that of Cuba, the DR or Nicaragua. Also another factor that might significantly change the taste of the cigar is aging. Aging, besides the seed and location, is what smooths out and often changes the taste of the tobacco.

I guess to answer your question, you will be paying higher for quality aged tobacco than you will for cheaper tobacco. However that does not mean the cigar will be more smooth.

What I would recommend is to read reviews on the cigars that you are trying, and find with which filler and wrapper you most enjoy. You may notice that you have a natural preference towards cigars from the Nicaragua (such as Padron) over stronger Ligero cigars grown by La Flor Dominicana in the Dominican Republic (for example). It's important to find out what you like, because mild is often a term I find a lot of people use based on their own cigar smoking context.

One last thing to keep in mind, the color of the wrapper does not always coincide with the strength.

**ggiese** · 04-30-2013, 06:24 AM

How do you tell, by looking at the bottle, which wine is going to be great versus what's going to be crap? Certainly the price tag is a great place to start. Bargain bin wines are generally in the bargain bin for a reason.

There are too many variables to answer you question easily. If you typically look for your cigars in the bargain bin, chances are pretty good you'll smoke some crap cigars. Then again - there's nothing like finding a diamond in the cesspool!

The best advice I can give - find a handful of cigar brands you really like and keep those on hand. That way while you're smoking through the bargain bin cigars and fire up a real crap smoke - at least you can pull one of the good ones out to save what would have been an otherwise crap experience.

**craig** · 04-30-2013, 09:59 AM

For wine, the price, the year, and the label (assuming that it is controlled by the government) is a fairly decent indicator of crap vs. not crap. However, there is a lot of error as well, so, while technically a good indicator, it isn't very useful for buying.

For cigars, the controlled labels are for cigars that aren't available, or aren't sold, in the US.

For the OP, buying cigars based on pictures is a sucker's game - actually, buying most anything consumable based on a picture isn't informative. Does a picture of a restaurant entrée tell you what it will taste like?

**ggiese** · 04-30-2013, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by craig

For the OP, buying cigars based on pictures is a sucker's game - actually, buying most anything consumable based on a picture isn't informative. Does a picture of a restaurant entrée tell you what it will taste like?

THAT best illustrates what I was trying to communicate... Even looking at a cigar and holding it in you hand doesn't speak to how it will taste.

**Combat_chuck** · 04-30-2013, 04:09 PM

Well i did try to point out that i know you cant go just by price or picture or wrapper color so i'm not sure why everyone explained that to me again. But im starting to think that the key may just be aging them. But short of doing significant reseach on each cigar, price may be the best indicator. Or better yet, how often they go on sale. Rocky Patel vintage series is never on sale because they are so good they dont need to be.

**ggiese** · 04-30-2013, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Combat_chuck

Well i did try to point out that i know you cant go just by price or picture or wrapper color so i'm not sure why everyone explained that to me again. But im starting to think that the key may just be aging them. But short of doing significant reseach on each cigar, price may be the best indicator. Or better yet, how often they go on sale. Rocky Patel vintage series is never on sale because they are so good they dont need to be.

Sorry if you were misunderstood, but your post suggested you did not understand why certain cigars were good, versus other cigars that were not (e.g. "Harsh"). I'm not sure you understand what your asking for, and additionally looking for a simple answer.

I don't know there could possibly be a simple answer to that question. Somewhat like asking, "why does this one brand of beer taste so good, but this other one is so bitter and nasty". No one knows what you tasted, and whether it was bitter, sweet, harsh or whatever. Certainly, any cigar manufacturer would be crazy to create a cigar that tasted "harsh" - so why would a cigar taste "harsh"?

Age will mellow a cigar, but so much that it takes a cigar that tastes like crap and makes them pleasant? I don't know about that...

**Cody44** · 04-30-2013, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by ggiese

I don't know there could possibly be a simple answer to that question. Somewhat like asking, "why does this one brand of beer taste so good, but this other one is so bitter and nasty". No one knows what you tasted, and whether it was bitter, sweet, harsh or whatever. Certainly, any cigar manufacturer would be crazy to create a cigar that tasted "harsh" - so why would a cigar taste "harsh"?

Words of wisdom.

**craig** · 04-30-2013, 09:20 PM

If you like RP Vintage, Famous or CI (I can't remember which) carries Vintage cosmetic seconds in bundles of 15 for about $3-$4 a cigar. No box, no band, same construction, same quality, same cigar, just colour variations (according to Rocky). I have had a few bundles in the past. They do (did?) have a very nice room note.

**badwhale** · 04-30-2013, 10:32 PM

I had a 5 Vegas "A" with about 3 years on it, it sucked.

I had a Padron 3000 maduro with about 6months on it and it was great.

I had a Johnny O with a year on it, it was great.

I had a Villager short filler, it sucked.

I had this, I had that. Just smoke some cigars and you'll figure it out.

**ggiese** · 05-01-2013, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by badwhale

I had a 5 Vegas "A" with about 3 years on it, it sucked.

I had a Padron 3000 maduro with about 6months on it and it was great.

I had a Johnny O with a year on it, it was great.

I had a Villager short filler, it sucked.

I had this, I had that. Just smoke some cigars and you'll figure it out.

There's one cigar in that group that defines aging a cigar - the Johnny O. I've NEVER been very impressed with his "young" cigars. They're cheap. At least - cheaper than most other similarly rolled cigars (shoot - I remember when they were REAL cheap). They're not bad fresh, mind you - just not what I'd say would be "great". But - after they've had at least a year's rest? Two or three years?!? Well... They're Mmmm, Mmmm, Good!

Badwhale's spot on - just smoke em, save and smoke the good ones and toss the crap.