I have had enough of this %#&@& winter.

[ashauler]

His state does not know what to do with salt - even if they get it! They have absolutely no trucks to spread it... LOL

No - it's us winter states that are sucking up the salt. We're in for two more snow events in the next couple of days - and we're already very dangerously low on salt.

I did notice there was a ton of beet juice they dropped on the streets last night. I hadn't seen that very much this year thus far.

It's nice to live 40 miles from salt mines. Even nicer to warehouse a few thousand pallets of ice-melter of various compositions. Salt shortage, uh-huh, we're shipping it as fast as we can....and the rail-road brings us box-cars every day.

[Mangyrat]

The southern sates do know what to do with salt we put it on french-fries

[Stoopy]

In my state salt causes cancer along with everything else.

[kevin7]

We got spreaders but we dont go apeshit spreading it. Cars actually last more than 5 years before turning into rusty pieces of shit. Kinda funny reading the local news facebook page .When were having snow and ice the transplanted yankees were saying they can drive in the bad weather. Funny to read about pileups in Philly on FB though,wonder what the fuck that was about. Dont be offended my Northern friends but unless you are a ice rally race driver nobody is an excellent snow driver.

Oh ya ,we dont fucking die en mass when the summer temp gets above 90f

[badwhale]

Sadly, it seems, that idiot drivers are the majority everywhere.

[badwhale]

So, is this more polar vortex, or is it just...cold?

[CptnBlues63]

Sadly, it seems, that idiot drivers are the majority everywhere.

I've driven in most every province in Canada and at least 7 or 8 different states in the US and I can attest to the above. It doesn't matter whether its dry, wet, ice or snow, there are useless, idiot drivers everywhere!

We got spreaders but we dont go apeshit spreading it. Cars actually last more than 5 years before turning into rusty pieces of shit. Kinda funny reading the local news facebook page .When were having snow and ice the transplanted yankees were saying they can drive in the bad weather. Funny to read about pileups in Philly on FB though,wonder what the fuck that was about. Dont be offended my Northern friends but unless you are a ice rally race driver nobody is an excellent snow driver.

Oh ya ,we dont fucking die en mass when the summer temp gets above 90f

Hmmmmm..............I've been driving in snowy conditions for about 34 years now. I spent the 80's driving semi's (logged over half a million miles behind the wheel driving professionally) through snowstorms, whiteouts and black ice and I can tell you the bolded statement above is incorrect. I'm an excellent driver in snow and have driven through conditions that would stop the average driver in their tracks. I'm not the only one either. I know quite a few people who know how to drive very well in snow.

Hell, that last trip south when we went to Savannah last March I had to drive through a snow storm and drifts about 1' deep across the highway for about 90 miles or so to get to the airport. Our plane was delayed 60 minutes because of snow and had to be deiced twice before we finally got off the ground.

If I'm not mistaken, ice rally cars have studded tires. And not the small studs you used to be able to use around here but spikes that are several inches long. Take those studs off and put them in a blizzard with whiteout conditions and they'd be no better than most average drivers.

[craig]

I was an ice rally driver (and instructor, and organizer, and steward, and...). Studs depends on the jurisdiction - so none in Ontario, for example. Spikes are for ice racing (off-road) - and there is only one venue in Canada that allow unrestricted spikes AFAIK (at Sherbrooke).

In any case, past the beginner, what are usually thought of as driver skills/talents, for example, car control, have little to do with whether one is actually a 'good' driver on the road. It isn't like one is going to deliberately drive sideways in traffic, or anywhere near the limits of the vehicle on public roads.

Anybody can concentrate only on driving while driving. Anybody can be considerate of other vehicles (including bicycles) and pedestrians. Anybody can drive conscientiously - always aware of their surroundings - other vehicles, road conditions, etc.

The "three C's" define a good driver. Concentration-consideration-conscientiousness. If one doesn't have them, then that person is a bad driver - maybe he is just a bad driver that day, or that drive - but it doesn't matter what one's skills are.

However, if one wants to look at skills, etc., then yes, I agree with Kevin, (good) professional rally drivers are the 'best' drivers. Look at it this way - a fighter pilot can fly a light plane, but a light plane pilot can't fly a fighter jet (for very long :-) )

[CptnBlues63]

I was an ice rally driver (and instructor, and organizer, and steward, and...). Studs depends on the jurisdiction - so none in Ontario, for example. Spikes are for ice racing (off-road) - and there is only one venue in Canada that allow unrestricted spikes AFAIK (at Sherbrooke).

In any case, past the beginner, what are usually thought of as driver skills/talents, for example, car control, have little to do with whether one is actually a 'good' driver on the road. It isn't like one is going to deliberately drive sideways in traffic, or anywhere near the limits of the vehicle on public roads.

Anybody can concentrate only on driving while driving. Anybody can be considerate of other vehicles (including bicycles) and pedestrians. Anybody can drive conscientiously - always aware of their surroundings - other vehicles, road conditions, etc.

The "three C's" define a good driver. Concentration-consideration-conscientiousness. If one doesn't have them, then that person is a bad driver - maybe he is just a bad driver that day, or that drive - but it doesn't matter what one's skills are.

However, if one wants to look at skills, etc., then yes, I agree with Kevin, (good) professional rally drivers are the 'best' drivers. Look at it this way - a fighter pilot can fly a light plane, but a light plane pilot can't fly a fighter jet (for very long :-) )

Kevin didn't say ice rally drivers are the "best" drivers in snow. He said, "unless you are a ice rally race driver nobody is an excellent snow driver"

And I disagree completely with that statement. It's no different than saying, "Unless you're a formula 1 racer, nobody is an excellent driver"

I am an excellent driver on snow. I know many people who are excellent drivers in snow. Everybody knows that the way to get good at anything is to practice, practice, practice. And you know damn well that out here on the prairies, we have a lot of snow every single year and get lots of practice driving in it.........LOL

I'm not saying we're all good drivers. My mom for example is terrible! No confidence at all. She's ok as long as the road is clear and dry but come winter time, she hates driving.

I have one thing to add to your 3-C's above.........Patience. To be a good driver in any inclement conditions (rain, snow, sleet, hail, ice etc) one must also be patient as well.

[cinda]

I like the 3 c"s theory makes sense. The driver I love is the one that pulls out in front of you doing 40 and then drives 10 mph with his left hand signal on and turns right 3 mins from where we met. When someone starts that kind of driving I slow up and get overly cautions. My husband does the direct opposite he pulls up right on his butt and tail gates. I try to say we know that person is insane already why poke the angry bear. He says this is their pay back. I say well at any time he can slam on the brakes and pull out his had gun and show you what a pay back really is about. We fight about diving a lot.

[craig]

What is an excellent driver?

Is it driving skillset?

Is it the ability to parallel park? If so, is somebody who takes 3 minutes to parallel park just as excellent as somebody who takes 20 seconds? How about people who can parallel park using (just) a reverse-180 handbrake turn?

Is it years of accident-free driving? Mileage? Number of moving violations?

Is it speed? Is it car control?

Is it attitude? Is it talent?

If there are "excellent" drivers, then that implies a grades of drivers from excellent -> good -> average -> fair -> poor (or whatever groupings/titles you want to use) ... how do you distinguish them?

There is always the George Carlin definition: "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

I'm just saying that it appears that you and Kevin (and myself) have different definitions.

[badwhale]

I'm an excellent driver. You should all worship my driving skills. AND since I'm so excellent (many anonymous opinions back this up) I don't have to prove anything.

There, the bar is set.

[kevin7]

Relax ladies ,jeesh its obvious we arent worthy to chew the cheese off the crusty crotch of Will's jockstrap.

[badwhale]

Relax ladies ,jeesh its obvious we arent worthy to chew the cheese off the crusty crotch of Will's jockstrap.

*folds arms, and nods approvingly, looking around*

[cinda]

Relax ladies ,jeesh its obvious we arent worthy to chew the cheese off the crusty crotch of Will's jockstrap.

ewwwwww

[ggiese]

What is an excellent driver?

Is it driving skillset?

Is it the ability to parallel park? If so, is somebody who takes 3 minutes to parallel park just as excellent as somebody who takes 20 seconds? How about people who can parallel park using (just) a reverse-180 handbrake turn?

Is it years of accident-free driving? Mileage? Number of moving violations?

Is it speed? Is it car control?

Is it attitude? Is it talent?

If there are "excellent" drivers, then that implies a grades of drivers from excellent -> good -> average -> fair -> poor (or whatever groupings/titles you want to use) ... how do you distinguish them?

There is always the George Carlin definition: "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

I'm just saying that it appears that you and Kevin (and myself) have different definitions.

Bingo!

[badwhale]

Bingo!

Jamie, you must have missed my post.

Brent

[craig]

96 car pile up north of Toronto Thursday on the 400 (like an Interstate), 'caused' by a localized, sudden, white out.
Or maybe just too many cheese-chewers.

-30 earlier today here, at the end of February. I need a cigar.

FWIW, I know that I am not a good driver. At least the proof of that is slowly fading from the Internet.

[CptnBlues63]

What is an excellent driver?

Is it driving skillset?

Is it the ability to parallel park? If so, is somebody who takes 3 minutes to parallel park just as excellent as somebody who takes 20 seconds? How about people who can parallel park using (just) a reverse-180 handbrake turn?

Is it years of accident-free driving? Mileage? Number of moving violations?

Is it speed? Is it car control?

Is it attitude? Is it talent?

If there are "excellent" drivers, then that implies a grades of drivers from excellent -> good -> average -> fair -> poor (or whatever groupings/titles you want to use) ... how do you distinguish them?

There is always the George Carlin definition: "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

I'm just saying that it appears that you and Kevin (and myself) have different definitions.

George is one of my all time favorites!

You've pretty much itemized a list of what it takes to be an "excellent" driver so I'm not going to repeat it. It's all the above and the 3-C's and patience

Relax ladies ,jeesh its obvious we arent worthy to chew the cheese off the crusty crotch of Will's jockstrap.

I'm sooooo glad I didn't have coffee in my mouth when I saw this or I'd have been cleaning my monitors

96 car pile up north of Toronto Thursday on the 400 (like an Interstate), 'caused' by a localized, sudden, white out.
Or maybe just too many cheese-chewers.

-30 earlier today here, at the end of February. I need a cigar.

FWIW, I know that I am not a good driver. At least the proof of that is slowly fading from the Internet.

I saw that on the news. It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't know what "safe following distance" means. What it is....and why it's a terrific idea to maintain it! You'll know it's me ahead of you on a freeway because I'm the dude with enough room in front of his vehicle to stop should somebody have an accident in front of him.

-32 here this morning (not including the windchill) and I'm darn good and ready for some spring *sighing* Meeting a couple friends for a cigar at my one friends shop......looking forward to that!

I suspect you're a much better driver than you're admitting............LOL...........but I'd be interested in seeing some links............

You tell me your stupid driving stories and I'll tell you mine!

[Sailor71]

George is one of my all time favorites!

You've pretty much itemized a list of what it takes to be an "excellent" driver so I'm not going to repeat it. It's all the above and the 3-C's and patience




I'm sooooo glad I didn't have coffee in my mouth when I saw this or I'd have been cleaning my monitors




I saw that on the news. It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't know what "safe following distance" means. What it is....and why it's a terrific idea to maintain it! You'll know it's me ahead of you on a freeway because I'm the dude with enough room in front of his vehicle to stop should somebody have an accident in front of him.

-32 here this morning (not including the windchill) and I'm darn good and ready for some spring *sighing* Meeting a couple friends for a cigar at my one friends shop......looking forward to that!

I suspect you're a much better driver than you're admitting............LOL...........but I'd be interested in seeing some links............

You tell me your stupid driving stories and I'll tell you mine!

It absolutely amazes me some of the driving in the Greater Toronto area. You can try to leave space between the car in front and sure enough, someone that has somewhere to be that's verrrrrry important pulls in front of you. For your info CptnBlues63, hwy 400 here is like the stretch of hwy2 between Red Deer and Calgary just add 4 more lanes and 10x the number of vehicles.