Cognac

[DanB6177]

Used the search function but not finding what i want. Looking to try cognac cigar pairing. So from what i can find online high end cognacs are often recommended. While I dont mind high end I cannot spend 100+ dollars on something I may not enjoy. So for the cognac guys here whats my less expensive alternative? Is there a more reasonable priced cognac I can try with a cigar? Any help is appreciated.

[kingbeefy]

I went through a bottle of Courvoisier VSOP a year or so ago. It was fine, but a bit too sweet for me. I have had couple of the pricier cognacs at Casa Fuente, can't remember which ones, and they too were good, but still too sweet to be anything I would regularly want to have. I understand I have just rambled here and probably haven't helped at all, but it's been a while since I posted on anything but "Today's Smokes". I figured it was time.

[DanB6177]

No, that does help. The Courvoisier VSOP is less expensive-about 50 bux it looks like. Would like to get into the 20$ range for trying it out but maybe Ill just get a glass of some at the cigar bar. Im sure they will have some there. Just need to find time to go there.

[kingbeefy]

It seems like I paid $30 ish. It's been a while so I could be wrong.

[ggiese]

The killer with spending $20 on a bottle of cognac, chances are you'll waste $20. The whole purpose of enjoying a cognac is the sip on something with complexity - a cognac that has significant age to it (e.g. VSOP or XO at a minimum). It's very rare to have an exceptional VS cognac.

In that price range - and I think a "nice" cognac - is Claude Chatelier VS Cognac. The only place you can find it is at Trader Joe's I believe. It's about $22 a bottle and I would pair it with a Arturo Fuente Anejo because of the nicely aged wrapper that also has a nice sweetness to it.

I really enjoy a more full body cigar with fine cognac - something like the Padron 1926 Maduro or a Cuban Montecristo. Those combos works very well.

If you're interested in that kind of cognac like "sweetness" (and I know it's not an exact match) - as a cheaper alternative I really enjoy pairing a full body cigar with Amaretto. Not to toot the horn of Trader Joe's, but I have found a gem there in a $8 Amaretto. It's a great alternative to the much more expensive DiSoronno (though noticeably thinner in consistency).

BTW - Trader Joe's also has a 10 yr old Single Malt Highland Scotch bottled under their own name in the $23 range that is just killer. I don't know which distillery is producing it, but it no doubt competes with the best.

[CoventryCat86]

Don't drink $20.00 bottles of Cognac, that's like saying you'd like to get into drinking wine and "not wanting to spend much" you go buy a bottle of Thunderbird or MadDog 20/20 and then conclude that wine "sucks."

The three lowest grades of Cognac are:

V.S.
V.S.O.P.
X.O.

in that order.

I'm a Remy Martin fan and I personally don't really like the V.S. at all. The V.S.O.P. is better but still not to my liking. The X.O. is very good but it's going to run you over $100.00 a bottle. Remy Martin has two higher Cognacs, the Millennium (which I think has been replaced by Coupe Shanghai) and Louis XIII. The Louis XIII is over two grand (closer to $3K actually) a bottle and the Coupe Shanghai runs about $600.00. I had the opportunity to enjoy a glass of Louis XIII once in my life and it was extraordinary and I loved it. I've also had the old Millennium on a few occasions and yes, it's good but not six times better than the XO.

Go to a bar or a restaurant and buy a glass of each and you'll see for yourself. Who knows, maybe you'll be able to stomach the V.S.O.P and maybe even the V.S. but don't go buy a bottle of any ole V.S. Cognac unless of course you truly do like Thunderbird and MadDog 20/20.

EDIT: In a restaurant, a small glass of the Millennium or now the Coupe Shanghai will run you around $65.00. I was at a restaurant once that had that listed and I asked them if they had any Louis XIII. They said they did, I said "How much?" the answer was "$125.00" which I've heard is a deal since some high end restaurants are known to charge $200.00 a glass. I had enough points on my casino comp. card a few years ago to be able to enjoy a glass of the Millennium for free. As I mentioned, it's very good but not six times better than the Remy Martin XO.

[DanB6177]

Great info much appreciated. Good to know whats what. Thats what I think I will do, wait to buy a bottle until ive tried them in singles. Or I may just get a bottle of one of the ones you guys mentioned.Thanx

[ggiese]

So I'm experimenting for Dan, pairing the Trader Joe's Claude Chatelier Cognac with a FF Opus X Losy City Lancero. The Cognac was priced at $21.99 - right in Dan's price range and by all other measures, should be a decent cognac for the price (I'm generally impressed with the Trader Joe's exclusive brands - they tend to be reasonably priced, and of good quality).

This Cognac is of good quality - it is not a Brandy, but truly a Cognac (Brandy being produced anywhere, while Cognac being produced only in certain areas of France). It compares very well to other VS Cognacs I've had, but is definitely not aged as well as I like. It has a distinct spiciness to it owing to it's youth - Yet a complexity that I did not expect from such a young Cognac. I just wish it was not so young to really enjoy the complexity of the Cognac (to CC86's point about not drinking a cognac of less than at least a VSOP or XO. Likely if this Cognac was well aged, it would be exceptional.

There is a sweetness to it, but it is not overly sweet, and in fact it finishes pretty dry. There is a bit of a smokiness that is pairing well with the cigar. The spiciness also goes well with the Opus X - and, in fact, I'm thrilled I'm smoking a cigar that is more full bodied to well compliment the Cognac. I'm picking up hints of vanilla and I can quite put my finger on the specific flavors, but there is a bit of a buttery richness on the finish.

Bottom line - not an unpleasant experience, but would much have rather enjoyed a VSOP or an XO (or better).

[ggiese]

In retrospect - after having my cigar with this cognac - I found I enjoyed the cigar much more than the cognac... A great cigar with a decent Cognac. I would have liked to enjoy both equally. Says something about what pairings you should create- and choose a bit more mediocre cigar with a lesser aged spirit.

I also think they should license the sale of amplifiers. I'm sure the garage band in my neighborhood believes they're really rocking the world - but the vocals are leaving a lot to be desired. I'm hearing applause, but I have to believe it's really their audience encouraging them to wrap it up. I strangely feel compelled to invest in some voice lessons for their band.

Oh, crap... Now my cats and dog are harmonizing with them.

[DanB6177]

Thanx ggiese for the experiment. Been talking to a few guys I work with that enjoy cognac and have some good tips. Found a cigar bar that has VSOP and XO so popping in there hopefully this week. I wanted to try it at home ( I really dont go to bars often) but liquor stores dont sell it by the glass lol. But I think now i wanna try the lost city instead of the cognac

[illilli]

But I think now i wanna try the lost city instead of the cognac

You seem to have your priorities straight!

[DanB6177]

Finally tried some cognac. Bought a small bottle of Courvoisier VSOP. Ok so I drank it neat at room temp. It tasted pretty much like a bourbon whiskey ish liquor. Not saying I didnt like it but it wasnt great for me. I have heard that room temp isnt warm enough to bring out the real flavor and it should be warmed more with heat from your hand ? Not sure if thats true or if I would enjoy more it another way?

[Eville]

If you are lucky enough to live somewhere that permits you to receive liquor via mail, there are several websites that offer smaller samples of fine liquors. Could be something to check out rather than buying a full sized bottle. http://www.masterofmalt.com/samples/cognac-samples/

[ggiese]

Finally tried some cognac. Bought a small bottle of Courvoisier VSOP. Ok so I drank it neat at room temp. It tasted pretty much like a bourbon whiskey ish liquor. Not saying I didnt like it but it wasnt great for me. I have heard that room temp isnt warm enough to bring out the real flavor and it should be warmed more with heat from your hand ? Not sure if thats true or if I would enjoy more it another way?

I hear what you say about cognac - and it does have a whiskey-ish taste to it - but I suggest to you the reason why cognac is so popular is because it is unusually complex.

That's the funny thing about drinking straight up spirits (versus making a mixed drink) - you find yourself trying to categorize it in terms of what you already know (e.g. "much like bourbon whiskey ish liquor"). I found this incredible whiskey called "Angels Envy" - one is port finished bourbon, the other is rum finished rye. I would say the appeal to me is its complexity (thinking beyond that it tastes much like whiskey or bourbon).

Cognac - much like single malt whiskey - or a fine wine - really is more about contemplating the experience of drinking the beverage, versus slugging down a shot. What warming it up with your hands does it to better bring out the aromas in the cognac and (hopefully) create a better experience. it doesn't really change the taste, per se, it more changes the experience (taste and smell are two components of that experience, and combine to create the experience). The experience of drinking cognac can also be very affected by the situation (e.g. quiet, relaxing time versus sitting in a crowded bar watching a ball game)

And for me - the more harmonious the complexity of that spirit is (e.g. sensing notes of chocolate and vanilla and leather and citrus, etc.) - the more I enjoy the experience of drinking it. As someone suggested in another thread about smoking cigars - enjoying a glass of cognac for me is like having a great slice of apple pie with a nice cuppa coffee...

[kingbeefy]

George, you mentioned Angel's Envy a while back and I've been meaning to get some.

Boom! It just happened.

[DanB6177]

I hear what you say about cognac - and it does have a whiskey-ish taste to it - but I suggest to you the reason why cognac is so popular is because it is unusually complex.

That's the funny thing about drinking straight up spirits (versus making a mixed drink) - you find yourself trying to categorize it in terms of what you already know (e.g. "much like bourbon whiskey ish liquor"). I found this incredible whiskey called "Angels Envy" - one is port finished bourbon, the other is rum finished rye. I would say the appeal to me is its complexity (thinking beyond that it tastes much like whiskey or bourbon).

Cognac - much like single malt whiskey - or a fine wine - really is more about contemplating the experience of drinking the beverage, versus slugging down a shot. What warming it up with your hands does it to better bring out the aromas in the cognac and (hopefully) create a better experience. it doesn't really change the taste, per se, it more changes the experience (taste and smell are two components of that experience, and combine to create the experience). The experience of drinking cognac can also be very affected by the situation (e.g. quiet, relaxing time versus sitting in a crowded bar watching a ball game)

And for me - the more harmonious the complexity of that spirit is (e.g. sensing notes of chocolate and vanilla and leather and citrus, etc.) - the more I enjoy the experience of drinking it. As someone suggested in another thread about smoking cigars - enjoying a glass of cognac for me is like having a great slice of apple pie with a nice cuppa coffee...

Thanx for advice. When I give it another go Ill let ya know how it went. I get what you are saying about the experience. My setting wasnt the greatest