Riots in France

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 10:13 AM

Hey guys

.

I am REALLY grateful for that. I absolutely agree that none of this is personal. Just different points of view and I am really glad we can exchange them.

Hell, if we didn't live so far appart we could have a chat over a few beers and a fine cigars!!!

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by reaganyouth84

I'm not trying to spread rumors, it is a fact, pure and simple though. I will say that the French did help us gain our independence, even though they did it in spite of the British because they hated them, but I am greatful that the French did help. I don't want to cause trouble though, you seem like an alright guy. Are you French? My grandfather and his side of the family are. We should chat about it sometime.

-Mike

Hey Reagan, yes I am French (I guess my rants were a bit of a giveaway huh

).

Where does your Grandad come from?

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 10:15 AM

Yes, I guess using the phrase "dirty work is done" is sort of false. There are still terror bombings all over, what ticks me off the most though is that French want in now that we are in decision making process, they would not help us take over Iraq and now they want to help us make decisions on how to turn it back to the people. They have no right in any decision making.

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jonsey5484

Maybe you will find this helpful. http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...omtimeline.pdf
A complete timeline of events of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Read the whole thing. I bet you can find the word French mentioned once in there. You will see the British.....but no French! I wonder why that is!!!

Jonsey,

I agree that you won't find the word French in there once. After all we all know they refused to partake in the war. I think the point we were discussing was around the reasons why they didn't partake in it.

It still doesn't show me where France is now supposed to want "a bit of the action".

God I need a beer.

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cohibanut

God I need a beer.

I agree with you there!!!

When I was talking about "a bit of the action" I meant helping with post war Iraq and making decisions regarding government and rebuilding.

Unless there is anything else to say, let's just leave it at a disagreement. If not we will just go around and around in circles and get dizzy

In talking with you, you have enlightened me on some facts that I did not know. Thank you. If you are ever in the Wisconsin area, give me a shout and I will buy you a beer!

reaganyouth84 · 11-10-2005, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Cohibanut

You say "after the dirty work was done" it is NOT done. Look at the state of Iraq!!! It's a total mess. THAT is the reason why France wanted to use diplomacy in the first place.

I will say that we are a long way away from securing Iraq, but people in this day and age are impatient. They don't understand things on a grand scale. What the U.S. is trying to do in Iraq is to give them a new government, a better way of life. We aren't out trying to just blow the whole place up, if we were, we could have done that in a couple of days. The thing is, a war like this is on a grand scale, we will be there for decades. Look at WWII, there are American forces STILL IN EUROPE 50 YEARS LATER trying to secure the peace, trying to rebuild. I believe we are in Iraq for the right cause. I will never forget seeing this little Iraqi boy on t.v. one night, holding a sign that said, "Thank you Mr. Bush", God, it broke my heart.

-Mike

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 10:30 AM

Hey guys, I think I agree that we'll agree to disagree (

).

It has indeed been a pleasure to have this lively discussion and it is a shame that we don't live closer!! We could have turned this into a (friendly ) debate over a few beers and cigars.

Or a glass of french wine perhaps?

I must add that I love the US. I have been there many times and will most definitely go back.

Keep a stack of beers in the fridge! I may knock at your doors with a couple of smokes one day!

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 10:33 AM

War is a dirty thing. There will always be deaths and hardships. Unfortunatly with the war in Iraq, and the post war. The problem is that the Liberal Media has made the decision that we have no business in Iraq, so to make it look worse than it actually is is their goal. Tell me, when was the last time you looked at a newspaper, or watched the news and the news media reported that another school has been built, or a hospital, or police station?? I bet you can say never. The news only shows the gory bombings and terror. They don't want to show you all the good that is being done. Kids and Adults being vaccinated and educated. Police trained. The news will never show you that because they want Bush to look bad. I don't believe a single thing I hear or read from the media. They are just out there to show the bad stuff.

Damn, now I got started on the Media!!! I think we need to lock out this thread!

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cohibanut

Hey guys, I think I agree that we'll agree to disagree (

).

It has indeed been a pleasure to have this lively discussion and it is a shame that we don't live closer!! We could have turned this into a (friendly ) debate over a few beers and cigars.

Or a glass of french wine perhaps?

I must add that I love the US. I have been there many times and will most definitely go back.

Keep a stack of beers in the fridge! I may knock at your doors with a couple of smokes one day!

My address is inmy profile, you know where to find me!!

reaganyouth84 · 11-10-2005, 10:39 AM

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."
-Ronald Reagan

"We did not seek the role of leadership that has been thrust upon us. But whether we like it or not, the events of our time demand America's participation." -Ronald Reagan

-Mike

**watty** · 11-10-2005, 08:05 PM

Sorry to be the Englishman in the woodpile, but, if it was in the French interest, they would invade, attack, frag , nuke or generally do anything they fucking wanted to do, irrespective of international opinion. As is their want.
The French are a singularly selfish nation and never tire of demonstrating that fact.
Look at London after WW2 and look at Paris after WW2.
We in Britain could have declared our cities as OPEN, but like the Russians, WE fought on.
God bless them for it, and for the intervention of the USA, or else ALL our children would be speaking German
Sorry..ain't got a lot of time for em.

**nhcigarfan** · 11-10-2005, 11:41 PM

Lest we forget. One reason the French didn't want to invade Iraq is that they didn't know what would be found. Including any "off spring" of the " nuclear energy" installation Mr. Chirac gave to Sadam, that the Israelis destroyed in Western Iraq years ago.

**Cohibanut** · 11-11-2005, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by watty

Sorry to be the Englishman in the woodpile, but, if it was in the French interest, they would invade, attack, frag , nuke or generally do anything they fucking wanted to do, irrespective of international opinion. As is their want.

Yes. Absolutely. By "the french" I take it you mean the French Government? Yes. You are right. Exactly as Tony Blair has done by sticking with GW Bush as it was in the economical interest of the UK to do so.

The French are a singularly selfish nation and never tire of demonstrating that fact.
Look at London after WW2 and look at Paris after WW2.
We in Britain could have declared our cities as OPEN, but like the Russians, WE fought on.
God bless them for it, and for the intervention of the USA, or else ALL our children would be speaking German
Sorry..ain't got a lot of time for em.

You miss one absolutely crucial difference here. England did NOT have to suffer the devastating effect of Hitler's Bliztkrieg. In other words, he did not attempt to invade England. He bombed the hell out of it instead (and everyone will always admire the extraodinary resolve of the british throughout this awful period. You were trully a marvellous example to us all.)

This is what annoys me whenever I hear about French being cowards and surrending at the first opportunity: Hitler DID NOT TRY to invade England. He may have planned for it towards the second half of the war but certainly not at the beginning.

If it had been the case, if he'd launched a full offensive against england in 1939 with the same might and speed applied in France the result would have been somewhat different.

Rant over.

**watty** · 11-11-2005, 07:25 AM

Some of us still resent the wa y they acted during the Falklands war...
Contrast the way our two allies reacted...the USA supplied the RAF with air to air rockets and other vital ordnance as well as political and moral support.

France supplied Argentina with a continuous supply of exocet missiles AND the French technicians to fit them cos the Argentinians couldn't have done it otherwise.

Who would you have backing you in a war.
Lets face it, when the going gets tough, the tough get going...but generally not as fast as some people and not necessarily in the same direction.as the BEF found out before Dunkirk.

**Cohibanut** · 11-11-2005, 07:29 AM

Seems I haven't really mastered the art of replying with a quote. I've put a reply to the first part of your post but part of it is included in your quote. DUH!

**watty** · 11-11-2005, 07:37 AM

Hitler had to cope with the British Expeditionary Force who were fighting him from the first German foot stepping into France, otherwise the german army would have been on the channel coast in hours mate.
Britain sacrificed the best part of our tiny standing army to fight along side France and to my knowledge, they suddenly found themselves fighting alone with French politicians talking to hitler about an alternative friendly government...and all they had to do was roll over and play dead....don't get me started.
That said, there can be no braver people than those men and women of the Maquis who never gave up no matter the cost.
rant over

**watty** · 11-11-2005, 07:40 AM

I would suggest kiss and make up but I've got cigar breath and you MUST have garlic

**Cohibanut** · 11-11-2005, 07:50 AM

I will never disagree with the absolute FACT that the French Government at that time was an absolute disgrace. They did indeed roll over and sell out at the first opportunity.

As I've said before what really gets my blood boiling is hearing people describe "The French" ( meaning every single one of France's 60 million or so inhabitants) as cowards. The French GOVERNMENT was at the helm. If you ask any French person what they think about Petain they will tell you that he was a collaborationist and sold us out.

If we'd had De Gaulle instead (I'm not a Gaullist but he would not have surrendered) the situation might have been entirely different.

What an appropriate chat for today hey! Kiss and make up sounds good to me! I'll park my bike, shave my moustache and give you a great BIG FRENCH KISS!!!!!! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMWAAH!