Riots in France

reaganyouth84 · 11-08-2005, 12:11 AM

I was reluctant to call them "French Riots" because the French aren't the ones causing the riots. I was just wondering if anyone here was keeping up with what is going on over there.

-Mike

**Shagaroo** · 11-08-2005, 08:14 AM

I myself am stunned France hasn't surrendered yet.

**nhcigarfan** · 11-08-2005, 09:31 AM

They generally surrender through acquiescence anyway.

reaganyouth84 · 11-08-2005, 12:44 PM

I know the French aren't all that ballsy, but come on...they could've stopped this days ago.

-Mike

**Jonsey5484** · 11-08-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Shagaroo

I myself am stunned France hasn't surrendered yet.

**Cohibanut** · 11-09-2005, 06:19 AM

I do realise that I hardly ever contribute to this forum. Indeed I love cigars but do not feel I have the expertise to contribute anything more or on top of very knowledgeable people of this site. As such I am quite content to learn from you people and keep my mouth shut. I consider it is better to do so than submit you to my points of view regarding something I know very little about.

This is why I do feel on this occasion I have to say something to the four cretins above. Who are you to criticise a country you most probably know nothing about apart from the stuff you see on TV?

“Not ballsy”, “generally surrender” I am sick to the back teeth with hearing such moronic comments day in day out from people who know absolutely bugger all about it.

How can you blame a people who had to face the wrath of the mightiest army in Europe at that time with the most incompetent government they’d ever had?. Yes mistakes were made. The biggest of all being putting their faith in an 85 ish head of state who was more or less senile and surrendered at the first opportunity. Does it mean the whole of France was behind him? Does it mean each and every Frenchman (and woman) was a coward? Does it mean they are all cowards now? Come on! Get a grip and stop this bloody nonsense!

Approximately 1,350,000 French people died during the FIRST world war*. Almost one million of them on the battle field.

Battle of Ypres (Oct.-Nov. 1914): 50,000 French Soldiers died fighting
Battle of the frontiers (Aug 1914): 211,000 French soldiers died fighting
Gallipoli (19 Feb. 1915-9 Jan. 1916): 27,000 all casualty types whilst fighting
Battle of the Marne 1 (Sept 1914): 80,000 French soldiers died fighting.
Battle of the Marne 2 ( July – Aug 1918) : 95,200 French Soldiers died or wounded fighting
Passchendaele (or 3rd Ypres) (31 July-12 Nov. 1917): 112,000 Wounded (no data for the dead)
Battle of the Somme (1 July-18 Nov. 1916) : just over 50,000 French soldiers died fighting
Battle of Verdun: 162,308 French soldiers dead or missing fighting
Battle of the Marne: 50,000 French soldiers died fighting
Battle of Aisne: 182,000 French soldiers died fighting

*http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
Sources and data do vary greatly. I have picked this one. You may wish to pick another and yes figures will differ. But only slightly. What no-one will question was the absolute butchery that was WW1.

You can call the French what you like, God knows they are far from being perfect. But you can't call them cowards.

One parting word: As we remember our dead on Friday, do bear these figures in mind.

Not for me. Not for you. For THEM.

**Shagaroo** · 11-09-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Cohibanut

Come on! Get a grip and stop this bloody nonsense!

Get a sense of humor jackass!

**Shagaroo** · 11-09-2005, 10:04 AM

Nice....... deleted your second message.....

**Cohibanut** · 11-09-2005, 10:12 AM

Absolutely. Didn't think your "reply" warranted a comment from my part.

**cigar no baka** · 11-09-2005, 12:10 PM

Screw the French. They're a former great power with nothing but memories and a burning desire to oppose and trash things American.

**Jonsey5484** · 11-09-2005, 12:25 PM

When the US was at war with Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom), the French ran away with their tales between their legs. Now that it is Post War Time and time to rebuild Iraq and set up government, now all of a sudden France wants a piece of the action. They would not help us take control, and now they want control in re establishing Iraq, so they can look like the heros. I say if the French want to help rebuild, let them reconstruct the sewers, shit belongs with shit anyways.

reaganyouth84 · 11-09-2005, 02:56 PM

What I love the most about France is that during World War 2 Americans and the Allied Forces were their last hope. DDay is a day that will never be forgotten, and all of you know that our boys that died over there on the sandy beaches of Normandy, but do you know that EVERY American (Allied Force) solider that is buried in France is charged a tax for BEING BURIED THERE!!! Yeah, it is true, America is charged an annual tax by the country of France for our dead soldiers that are buried there. Why are they buried there? Because they gave their lives to fight in the name of freedom, and to free the French of the advancement of Hitler. Isn't the fact that they gave their life for a country other than their own, and for people they didn't even know taxation enough? Apparently not.

My grandfather is French, and I am of direct French descent. My grandfather is disgusted with France and their actions, and I myself feel so blessed that I am an American instead of wishy washy French douche.

-Mike

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 03:45 AM

Regarding the war in Iraq I still would like to point out that one million people marched in London against it and that the overwhelming majority of the British people were against it. It is still to this day a cross to bear for Tony Blair and the single most negative point of his entire leadership. He went to war AGAINST the will of the people he is supposed to represent and most people here still feel the war was an illegal one.

France was by no means the only country to oppose an american-led (or any single/dual country led for that matter) war. It would have agreed to it had the UN agreed to it. Once again: On which grounds was the war declared? On the grounds that Saddam was a threat to the world and possessed weapons capable of striking London within minutes.

Where are the weapons?

Do you feel safer now?

Reaganyouth, this is exactly what I'm talking about!!!! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!!!!! I keep hearing so much crap about the French I don't even know where to start. The rumour you are spreading is just that. A rumour. Fuelled by ignorance and spread by the media all to happy to jump at any opportunity to make a quick buck by sustaining stereotypes.

The United States has been granted tax-free and rent-free use of all these cemetery sites, in perpetuity, by their host governments (french or others)!!!

Take a look at this and let me know what you think. Especially towards the end bit about the so called "rent".

http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/graves.asp

**SuperChuck** · 11-10-2005, 07:41 AM

The French learned their lesson with the Statue of Liberty... Can't give those damned Americans ANYTHING for free!

You know, in the grand scheme of things, we should probably just make Iraq a US colony. We are really not good at setting up puppet governments. Look at Afghanistan and Iraq! At least colonies have a traditional history of forming and organized group to stand up against their oppressor. At least then you have a natural government stepping in. :)

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Cohibanut

Regarding the war in Iraq I still would like to point out that one million people marched in London against it and that the overwhelming majority of the British people were against it. It is still to this day a cross to bear for Tony Blair and the single most negative point of his entire leadership. He went to war AGAINST the will of the people he is supposed to represent and most people here still feel the war was an illegal one.

France was by no means the only country to oppose an american-led (or any single/dual country led for that matter) war. It would have agreed to it had the UN agreed to it. Once again: On which grounds was the war declared? On the grounds that Saddam was a threat to the world and possessed weapons capable of striking London within minutes.

Where are the weapons?

Do you feel safer now?

Reaganyouth, this is exactly what I'm talking about!!!! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!!!!! I keep hearing so much crap about the French I don't even know where to start. The rumour you are spreading is just that. A rumour. Fuelled by ignorance and spread by the media all to happy to jump at any opportunity to make a quick buck by sustaining stereotypes.

The United States has been granted tax-free and rent-free use of all these cemetery sites, in perpetuity, by their host governments (french or others)!!!

Take a look at this and let me know what you think. Especially towards the end bit about the so called "rent".

http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/graves.asp

It is fine that the French did not want to help the Americans with the war in Iraq. That was not my point, my point is that after all of the dirty work was done, then they wanted a piece of the action.

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 09:52 AM

Care to show me which reliable , reputable sources you found this information in?

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 10:04 AM

Maybe you will find this helpful. http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...omtimeline.pdf
A complete timeline of events of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Read the whole thing. I bet you can find the word French mentioned once in there. You will see the British.....but no French! I wonder why that is!!!

reaganyouth84 · 11-10-2005, 10:05 AM

I'm not trying to spread rumors, it is a fact, pure and simple though. I will say that the French did help us gain our independence, even though they did it in spite of the British because they hated them, but I am greatful that the French did help. I don't want to cause trouble though, you seem like an alright guy. Are you French? My grandfather and his side of the family are. We should chat about it sometime.

-Mike

**Jonsey5484** · 11-10-2005, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by reaganyouth84

I'm not trying to spread rumors, it is a fact, pure and simple though. I will say that the French did help us gain our independence, even though they did it in spite of the British because they hated them, but I am greatful that the French did help. I don't want to cause trouble though, you seem like an alright guy. Are you French? My grandfather and his side of the family are. We should chat about it sometime.

-Mike

I agree with you....The French have helped us tremendously in the past. Since then we have also helped them a great deal. That is what Allies do for each other. And I don't blame them for not wanting to help us in Iraq. What pisses me off is the fact that then after it was all over and the part of rebuilding, now they want in. They turned their backs on us when we had to fight, now they want to help. That is bullshit.

Also, I also think that you seem like an alright guy Cohibanut, and none of this is personal....just two people with different viewpoints.

**Cohibanut** · 11-10-2005, 10:11 AM

Let me expand on this. I am in no way saying that France is the best country on earth and that the French are free of any weaknesses. What I’m saying is that I am sick to death with people calling them cowards. Cowards they are not. They are a proud people with a huge history and hold a place in history past, present and future which can rival that of any great country on earth.

They are a rational people as opposed to a people enclined to follow its guts and Independence-Day-like rhetoric at the first sign of trouble.

Talking about wars, do not forget that the whole of europe in its 2000 years of history has seen more deaths through wars, genocides and various other horrors than the US ever will. This weight on our (Europe’s) shoulder combined with the 1,000,000 million death of the first world war, the 700,000 or so deaths of the second world war may go some way to explain France’s reluctance to engage in a conflict without careful thinking and , yes, reasoning.

Do you only realise how much in the shit the US is at the moment? With borrowing at an all time high, two natural disasters of epic scale to deal with running into billions of dollars, a war in Iraq it is incapable of finishing and a conflict in Afghanistan it doesn’t even know how to deal with?

You say "after the dirty work was done" it is NOT done. Look at the state of Iraq!!! It's a total mess. THAT is the reason why France wanted to use diplomacy in the first place.