The Death Penalty, Kids being charged as Adults

[basil]

Ha!

I'm COMPLETELY opposed to the death penalty.

I also think it's rediculous to charge kids as adults.

J Edgar Hoover renamed all our prisons to "Correctional Facilities" and I really think he was on to something (about the correctional facilities, not cross-dressing). However, I think the prison system is a COMPLETE failure...

I had a revelation a couple years back. I was watching a documentary on Parris Island and one of the drill sargeants mentioned that roughly half the kids joining the Marines realize that they need discipline; they realize that they can either join the military or end up in prison. So what do you do with the people that go to prison instead? Treat them like Marines!

My "system" puts inmates through a 6 week boot camp loosely based on the Marine Corps model. Once the inmate passes boot (which, like actual boot, may take more than one attempt), the inmate can then join the prison system. The emphasis of the prison system would change as well. Education and hard work are stressed. Inmates are educated in a trade beneficial to the state and put to work. The work should be largely creative in nature: building bridges, levees, repairing municipal buildings, etc. The idea here is to create an understanding of improving society.

The current system brings 'em in, ferments them, and lets them out. Bring 'em in, fix 'em, and get 'em out.

I've never understood charging a child as an adult.
As a society, we have determined that a 15 year old kid does not have the understanding of right and wrong.
Yet, we decide that, if they do something REALLY bad, they MUST have full understanding.
That just doesn't make sense.

An army officer once explained why the army doesn't accept people older than 24 (or whatever the age is). If you tell a 17 year old to take that hill, they don't ask questions. If you tell a 27 year old to take that hill, they'll tell you no fucking way, there are guys shooting up there. The 17 year old understands that there are people up there shooting, but doesn't understand what it MEANS to wind up in a body bag. A 27 year old is typically more mature and self-protective.

If I had the same intellect I had at 15, I'd be dead.

The boot camp thing has been tried. The last one was dismantled a couple of months ago - it was in CA and was part of the Bureau of Prisons (BOP - Federal). The "creative labor" thing is and has been part of prison systems for decades. I don't know the stats re: what has been helpful and what hasn't. I do believe strongly that prison has become simply a bandaid for a symptom of much larger problem; you're right about the fact that the prison systems, federal AND state, are largely failures. The problem: lack of accountability.

On whether an adolescent has an abstract grasp of death, right and wrong, or whatever, varies from one person to the next.

[SuperChuck]

The boot camp thing has been tried. The last one was dismantled a couple of months ago - it was in CA and was part of the Bureau of Prisons (BOP - Federal).

Weren't those the crazy tent city things? I think the guy that was running those was a total nut... I believe they were effective, but the guy running them was whacky.

The "creative labor" thing is and has been part of prison systems for decades.

I've seen a lot of labor, but not a lot of creative labor.
Picking up garbage and doing laundry doesn't really give you a feeling of building something, something to be proud of. There's just going to be more litter and laundry tomorrow...

[cigarsarge]

Fifteen year olds know right from wrong. If they don't why do so many of em run from crime scenes when authorities approach?

Death Penalty

Juveniles Charged As Adults

[SuperChuck]

I think there's a big difference between "knowing right from wrong" and having a full understanding of right and wrong.

As a kid, I knew it was "wrong" to kill someone, but I had NO CONCEPT of the repercussions of actually killing someone.

I had all these valiant ideas in my head about dying in the line of duty and laying down my life for the good of the nation. Now as an old guy, you couldn't drag my ass into Iraq. I understood that dying was a bad thing, but I didn't really understand the permanence of death.

[cigarsarge]

I think there's a big difference between "knowing right from wrong" and having a full understanding of right and wrong.

As a kid, I knew it was "wrong" to kill someone, but I had NO CONCEPT of the repercussions of actually killing someone.

You sadly under estimate the teenagers of today. The kids I deal with know exactly what they are doing and repercussions. The typical "gangster" kid I deal with knows full well death is final, the repercussions in the famly of the deceased, and what could happen to them if caught. They just don't give a crap. The only exception being mentally challenged kids.

[SuperChuck]

The typical "gangster" kid I deal with knows full well death is final, the repercussions in the famly of the deceased, and what could happen to them if caught. They just don't give a crap.

That's what I mean, though. On paper, I understood all that death being final stuff, but I didn't care. Now, being older, I do "give a crap". I understand how valuable and precious life is.

If you talk to these same kids in 10 or 20 years (those who are lucky enough to start over), they'll tell you how stupid they think all that was and that they're glad they made it out alive, etc.

It's not relegated to the criminal, either. If you've ever met anyone that was involved with some of the more messed up secret government projects, they have the same mindset, like it wasn't them doing it. Even people that have been in combat are the same way.

[reaganyouth84]

The Attorney General here in Tennessee was in town today. He says he wants the kid that caused the school shooting here yesterday to be tried as an adult.

-Mike