Arrest Eight In Counterfeit Cuban Cigar Ring

**Shakespeare** · 12-16-2005, 09:19 AM

So lets see. Police arrest 8 people for something legal for saying it's something illegal; and people are buying something legal because they thought it was something illegal.

And here I was just ramping up to sell oregano online as Marijuana.
Click Here for Sun Sentinel Article that basically doesn't tell you shit

**godfather** · 12-16-2005, 11:35 AM

Since you put it that way, how unusual/confusing indeed....

Interesting find, thanks for sharing.

**SuperChuck** · 12-16-2005, 12:54 PM

Heh, never thought of it like that...

"Your honor, it would be illegal if we sold actual cuban cigars... We were only trying to follow the law!"

**Shakespeare** · 12-16-2005, 01:19 PM

I believe most of the so called "Cuban" cigars sold around the US are actually fake.

The real irony is that the closer you get to Cuba; ie Miami, the higher propensity of running into fakes.

The counterfeiters have become so good, that it is almost impossible to tell the difference unless you are a highly trained expert...until you smoke it.

Prices for Cuban cigars are high, even where they are legally sold. This gives the counterfeiters incentive to invest in high quality duplication of bands, box art, size, shape and color to look like the real thing.

Even with going over the top to make the fakes look real, they can turn a 1000% profit. (I'll have to see if the article says anything about this.)

Most smokers of premium cigars pay an average of $5-$9 for a high quality stick.

Some of the excellent quality legal cigars such as Padron 1964 Anniversay can sell for up to $25 a stick and they are worth it.

If I were to go to Canada and buy real Cubans there, most of them would cost US$20-30.

Unsuspecting US consumers eager to get their hands on the "forbidden fruit" pay $30 for a fake Cuban cigar that cost the counterfeiter $3.00 to produce.

**Shakespeare** · 12-16-2005, 01:21 PM

Here's a story that makes more sense.

They don't mention Cubans, but they tell you the brand names of Monte Cristo, H. Upmann, Romeo y Julieta and that the charges are forging or counterfeiting private labels and vending goods with counterfeit trademarks.

http://www.local10.com/news/5546728/detail.html

Moheganson · 12-18-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shakespeare

I believe most of the so called "Cuban" cigars sold around the US are actually fake.

The real irony is that the closer you get to Cuba; ie Miami, the higher propensity of running into fakes.

The counterfeiters have become so good, that it is almost impossible to tell the difference unless you are a highly trained expert...until you smoke it.

Prices for Cuban cigars are high, even where they are legally sold. This gives the counterfeiters incentive to invest in high quality duplication of bands, box art, size, shape and color to look like the real thing.

Even with going over the top to make the fakes look real, they can turn a 1000% profit. (I'll have to see if the article says anything about this.)

Most smokers of premium cigars pay an average of $5-$9 for a high quality stick.

Some of the excellent quality legal cigars such as Padron 1964 Anniversay can sell for up to $25 a stick and they are worth it.

If I were to go to Canada and buy real Cubans there, most of them would cost US$20-30.

Unsuspecting US consumers eager to get their hands on the "forbidden fruit" pay $30 for a fake Cuban cigar that cost the counterfeiter $3.00 to produce.

"I believe most of the so called "Cuban" cigars sold around the US are actually fake."
I don't believe that for one minute. This is pure speculation on the part of anyone who makes this statement and quite frankly, I'm kind of sick and tired of hearing it.

"Some of the excellent quality legal cigars such as Padron 1964 Anniversay can sell for up to $25 a stick and they are worth it."
You may think they are worth it but I don't and neither to many other people too.

"If I were to go to Canada and buy real Cubans there, most of them would cost US$20-30."
No kidding, that's CANADA where they tax the living shit out of everything because it's a country that is one step removed from socialism.

"Unsuspecting US consumers eager to get their hands on the "forbidden fruit" pay $30 for a fake Cuban cigar that cost the counterfeiter $3.00 to produce"
Hey, what was that expression PT Barnum used to say? Something about a sucker born every minute, I forgot.........

I guess my point here is it might be a good idea to tone down your rhetoric.

**BigMacFU** · 12-18-2005, 01:11 PM

It didn't seem to me like any rhetoric, just general facts and figures that are very true. Counterfeiting is a huuuuuuge business.

Why did you get all jumpy Mohegan? Also, yes, on quite a few sizes of PAM, PAN, PA 64, PA 26's, prices can average around 25 and people do think they are worth it. Same with some opus X's and rare fuente's. And besides, he stated premium average between 5-9 dollars, but some go as high as 25 and are considered worth it by many aficionados, so he wasn't saying every premium was that much.

Just take a big sip of your finest alcoholic beverage, sit back in a big leather chair and smoke a stogie Mohegan, nothing wrong with what Shakespeare posted.

Moheganson · 12-18-2005, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by BigMacFU

It didn't seem to me like any rhetoric, just general facts and figures that are very true. Counterfeiting is a huuuuuuge business.

Why did you get all jumpy Mohegan? Also, yes, on quite a few sizes of PAM, PAN, PA 64, PA 26's, prices can average around 25 and people do think they are worth it. Same with some opus X's and rare fuente's. And besides, he stated premium average between 5-9 dollars, but some go as high as 25 and are considered worth it by many aficionados, so he wasn't saying every premium was that much.

Just take a big sip of your finest alcoholic beverage, sit back in a big leather chair and smoke a stogie Mohegan, nothing wrong with what Shakespeare posted.

It's not a matter of being "all jumpy" so there's no need for your snide comment. Most of his comments were NOT "facts and figures" as you said, but rather his opinions cleverly disguised as facts and it looks you took the bait, hook, line and sinker. He was repeating the common misconception that "most of the so called "Cuban" cigars sold around the US are actually fake" and I stated that I don't believe that for one minute. He also went on to make other statements which tried to convince the reader that Cuban cigars cost many times more than they really do.

I think is disingenuous for an American cigar merchant who obviously cannot sell Cuban cigars to start spewing the "rhetoric" by using scare tactics and half truths which certainly seems designed to discourage people from seeking out Cuban cigars so im my opinion there is indeed something "wrong" with what he posted.

Please spare me your condescending advice about sitting in a leather chair.

**TheSilentChamber** · 12-18-2005, 02:26 PM

--- look I'm pointed.

**Island Epicurean** · 12-18-2005, 03:35 PM

Hey;

I do take exception that Canada is one step away from socialism. The reason we tax cigars and booze so heavily is because we have an incredibly comprehensive health care system. The logic behind the gigantic tobacco taxes is that they cause poor health which in turns strains the health care system. While I don't think cigars are a major cause of poor health, cigarettes definitly are. So, in order to offset the cost of tobacco related illnesses, both the Federal and Provincial governments tax the hell out of tobacco. We are NOT socialist.

**TheSilentChamber** · 12-18-2005, 03:43 PM

Canada = Comunist Come on now... the "=" sign does not lie

**Island Epicurean** · 12-18-2005, 03:46 PM

Ha ha ha, well if there is an equal sign I guess it must be true........

**CoventryCat86** · 12-18-2005, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Island Epicurean

Hey;

I do take exception that Canada is one step away from socialism. The reason we tax cigars and booze so heavily is because we have an incredibly comprehensive health care system. The logic behind the gigantic tobacco taxes is that they cause poor health which in turns strains the health care system. While I don't think cigars are a major cause of poor health, cigarettes definitly are. So, in order to offset the cost of tobacco related illnesses, both the Federal and Provincial governments tax the hell out of tobacco. We are NOT socialist.

I don't think anyone said Canada was "Socialist" but Canada is probably more socialist leaning than the United States. Canada's "comprehensive health care system" has its good points but it's a system that has many, many problems as well and is far from perfect. I would suggest that if you'd like to debate the pros and cons of it that you start a thread in the "Politics" forum.

Shakespere seems like a nice person but I wasn't particularly taken with statements and opinions on Cuban cigars which I see way too many times from other United States cigar vendors.

**Island Epicurean** · 12-18-2005, 05:22 PM

While I am a little busy now, I think you hit the nail on the head CC. While our health care system is somewhat beneficial, given its poor efficency rating, it needs much improvement. When work slacks up a bit I think I may go on a bit of a rant in the politics forum. It should be interesting to get the American perspective.

**CoventryCat86** · 12-18-2005, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Island Epicurean

While I am a little busy now, I think you hit the nail on the head CC. While our health care system is somewhat beneficial, given its poor efficency rating, it needs much improvement. When work slacks up a bit I think I may go on a bit of a rant in the politics forum. It should be interesting to get the American perspective.

LOL!! Hey, the whole health care debate is certainlly an interesting one AND it is on the minds more and more these days with the average American citizen. I probably won't get involved in a discussion here on it because I just like talking about cigars here and only enjoy the "Politics" forum on CSmokers for the needed beatdowns of my "favorite"

people like fpdoc and the like.

**hp-^** · 12-18-2005, 09:19 PM

I don't have a problem with Shakespeare's post.

**Shakespeare** · 12-19-2005, 08:48 AM

This turned into a good thread. One of the things that makes good threads are differences of opinions. It's much easier to keep a topic going that way.

It was quite interesting hearing Moheganson's difference of opinion, although, it did seem a little defensive, but that's just my opinion. I had no intention to offend anyone.

Thank you BigMacFU and hp-^ for your support.

Moheganson also said:

I think is disingenuous for an American cigar merchant who obviously cannot sell Cuban cigars to start spewing the "rhetoric" by using scare tactics and half truths which certainly seems designed to discourage people from seeking out Cuban cigars so im my opinion there is indeed something "wrong" with what he posted.

To which I reply:

I have been smoking cigars since 1998. I just started working in the cigar business 5 months ago.

My post had nothing to do with my work in the industry. It was 100% based on my own personal experience. I was not "bashing" Cuban smokes. I have had some amazing Habanos.

Lighten up dude.

**CoventryCat86** · 12-20-2005, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Shakespeare

This turned into a good thread. One of the things that makes good threads are differences of opinions. It's much easier to keep a topic going that way.

It was quite interesting hearing Moheganson's difference of opinion, although, it did seem a little defensive, but that's just my opinion. I had no intention to offend anyone.

Thank you BigMacFU and hp-^ for your support.

Moheganson also said:

To which I reply:

I have been smoking cigars since 1998. I just started working in the cigar business 5 months ago.

My post had nothing to do with my work in the industry. It was 100% based on my own personal experience. I was not "bashing" Cuban smokes. I have had some amazing Habanos.

Lighten up dude.

That was completely unnecessary.......

A little "defensive" there Shakespere?

**Shakespeare** · 12-21-2005, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by CoventryCat86

That was completely unnecessary.......

A little "defensive" there Shakespere?

Normal message board etiquette is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as they are respectful to others.

I haven't posted anything disrespectful to anyone. I was answering a post, continuing a discussion that was directly related to one of my previous posts. I did not intend to sound defensive, but perhaps I came off that way by using the rhetoric of "Lighten up dude".

At the time I posted that, it seemed ok, as my perception was that the guy was taking my post too serious and personal.

We all have are own personal experiences which lead to our own individual perceptions and opinions.

No offense intended. No defensiveness intended.

I'm here to talk about cigars and related stuff, and I'm a pretty easy-going guy that doesn't take life too seriously. I don't take other people's opinions personally unless they are directly about me.