Electrician Question

[BigMacFU]

Hey guys, I'm finding that my apartment only has 15 and 20 AMP breakers, and unfortunately, a few of the rooms are wired into just one breaker set (they're single pole, so pink to a 20 AMP and Black to a seperate 20 AMP, and then white to ground of course). Is there anything wrong with going with something like a 100 AMP or 50 AMP breaker to make sure if my wife is blow drying her hair, I'm watching TV while making us breakfast in the microwave that the breaker's not gonna blow? I'm just wondering if you can ever have too many AMPS for a breaker? I'm especially curious because Summer is coming around and I want to have an AC running (it's gotta be a window kind, not central). I also have all my other important electronics hooked up to surge protectors/regulators, so I'm not worried about "too much juice."

[Bkcloud114]

Sean, I'm not an electrician and I'm sure if I am wrong someone will correct me. I believe that the only problem with doing that is that the wire in the walls might not be rated for higher AMPS, which means that it will carry enough electricity but the wires might get hot. melting the covering that goes over them..... that could be a potential fire hazard.

[Desert Rat]

Sean, I'm not an electrician and I'm sure if I am wrong someone will correct me. I believe that the only problem with doing that is that the wire in the walls might not be rated for higher AMPS, which means that it will carry enough electricity but the wires might get hot. melting the covering that goes over them..... that could be a potential fire hazard.

Exactly! You are defeating the purpose of the “circuit” breaker by increasing the breaker amperage rating in the panel, and looking for trouble (FIRE).

Gonna just have to live with what you got, move, or ask the landlord to rewire (fat chance) .

.

[Kenyth]

Each link in the circuit's chain has a certain maximum rating. Most household wiring is only rated for 15 or 20 amp service. Thus the matching breaker ratings. You can add more circuits to the panel, but you can't increase the breaker rating, with the exception being you have 20 amp wire hooked to a 15 amp breaker. In that case you could safely up the breaker to 20 amps. That scenario is unlikely however. The 100-200 amp breakers are generally the house main service breakers. A home only get's a 100 (older) or 200 (newer) amp service, depending on your house mains and power company setup. Apartments may have even less. I've never checked. At any rate, messing with another persons building electrical system is a sure way to be sued, evicted, or at least poorly liked. In the event something bad (fire, death) should happen because of your actions, you could find yourself in very deep shit! Outside of all that is the not insignificant chance of you electrocuting yourself while messing with high amperage household mains.

Bottom line, don't mess with it....

[nhcigarfan]

Assuming there are other apartments in the building, cut into the walls and splice into the other apartments lines and run the AC that way. he he he

[BigMacFU]

Thanks for the advice guys. I asked some electricians at home depot and they said the same as Tommy and Desert. I did re-wire so that the line goes to a 20-amp instead of a 15-amp. They've got it illegally wired anyway, in NYC you are required to have appliances on separate breakers from everything else. My apt. has 5 rooms including the bathroom and 4 (including the kitchen) are wired to the one breaker. The only room that isn't is the bedroom, and we only use a light in there. It pisses me off too because it's only a 4-unit bldg. and so technically not under NYC housing authority rule. Any chance you know someone Tommy who can force the owners to re-wire?

[Bassfever]

Sorry I missed this. DONT DO IT! You will burn the building down if you put to much load on that wire. 15amp breaker probably has 14 guage wire and the 20 would be 12. The wire cant take a 50 amp load and would start to heat and melt the insulation etc..... Been doing this since 1986. well I am a pencil pusher now but I did my time in the field. Years ago it was common to only have a couple circuits in your entire house but with the changing times and all the electronics and appliances now there is a much more intense code. If you live in an apt I would think they would have to have it to code and a call to the housing authority may clear that up for you. In MASS they have to keep it to the current code and if they dont the housing or whoever has jurisdiction will enforce it and cut the rent until it is done

[Kenyth]

Thanks for the advice guys. I asked some electricians at home depot and they said the same as Tommy and Desert. I did re-wire so that the line goes to a 20-amp instead of a 15-amp. They've got it illegally wired anyway, in NYC you are required to have appliances on separate breakers from everything else. My apt. has 5 rooms including the bathroom and 4 (including the kitchen) are wired to the one breaker. The only room that isn't is the bedroom, and we only use a light in there. It pisses me off too because it's only a 4-unit bldg. and so technically not under NYC housing authority rule. Any chance you know someone Tommy who can force the owners to re-wire?

All rooms wired to a single 15 amp breaker? Something smells here. Do they pay the utilities or something, and only have 15-20 amp wire running to your apt. from another main building panel? You're supposed to have your own panel and contract with the power company. You've already done it, but I still would have said to leave it be regardless. Now that you've messed with it, if something goes wrong they can try and pin it on you.

As far as getting them to rewire the panel, YOU can get them to do it. Ask nicely and very often (daily) until you get a date for a technician to arrive. If they say no or put you off, move out. You can break your lease over something like this. I'm sure it's not up to code. They probably won't want to make a stink about your lease, deposit, or anything else if they think they'll get inspected and they stand to get fined and forced to bring it up to code.

[Bkcloud114]

All rooms wired to a single 15 amp breaker? Something smells here. Do they pay the utilities or something, and only have 15-20 amp wire running to your apt. from another main building panel? You're supposed to have your own panel and contract with the power company. You've already done it, but I still would have said to leave it be regardless. Now that you've messed with it, if something goes wrong they can try and pin it on you.

As far as getting them to rewire the panel, YOU can get them to do it. Ask nicely and very often (daily) until you get a date for a technician to arrive. If they say no or put you off, move out. You can break your lease over something like this. I'm sure it's not up to code. They probably won't want to make a stink about your lease, deposit, or anything else if they think they'll get inspected and they stand to get fined and forced to bring it up to code.

This is a nice pipe dream..... Sean's apartment is in a borough outside of Manhattan which is still considered NYC. The buildings are very old and the wiring is probably as old as the building. Sean can ask till he is "blue in the face", but bottom line is that if he leaves, another family will move in and never complain about anything.

Fines??... Inspectors ???...... few and far between in NYC regarding housing. Recently, 4 NYC Firemen had to jump from the 4th or 5th floor of a fire to save their lives in a fire. Two of them were killed and two survived with severe injuries. All because the landlord constructed walls where he should not have, blocking the access to the only fire-escape.

Housing regulations and zoning regulations are very infrequently enforced in this city. Many, many times rooms are rented within apartments. Single family homes are torn down and multy-family homes are put up in there place.

Sean is very lucky to be living in the neighborhood he is in, if he threatens to leave..... the landlord will probably have it rented again before he leaves..... and the inspectors probably won't show up until after the landlord is dead.

[BigMacFU]

Yeah, I've got my own panel, my own contract with ConEd, what I don't get is, since there are 6 one pole breakers, which means 3 full circuits (right?) the other two don't even go to outlets in the apartment, nor my lighting, what is going off when I put them in the off position? It's like the mysterious light switch everyone has. I wish they went to my neighbors apartment so I could refuse to give them power till they rewired my building. The building has been renovated over the last 10 years piece by piece, and the wire is a fairly thick gauge. Ah NY.

[Bassfever]

This is a nice pipe dream..... Sean's apartment is in a borough outside of Manhattan which is still considered NYC. The buildings are very old and the wiring is probably as old as the building. Sean can ask till he is "blue in the face", but bottom line is that if he leaves, another family will move in and never complain about anything.

Fines??... Inspectors ???...... few and far between in NYC regarding housing. Recently, 4 NYC Firemen had to jump from the 4th or 5th floor of a fire to save their lives in a fire. Two of them were killed and two survived with severe injuries. All because the landlord constructed walls where he should not have, blocking the access to the only fire-escape.

Housing regulations and zoning regulations are very infrequently enforced in this city. Many, many times rooms are rented within apartments. Single family homes are torn down and multy-family homes are put up in there place.

Sean is very lucky to be living in the neighborhood he is in, if he threatens to leave..... the landlord will probably have it rented again before he leaves..... and the inspectors probably won't show up until after the landlord is dead.

That is a shame!

[Bassfever]

If you have 6 1 pole Breakers you should have 6 circuits. I take it you have a gas stove and no dryer? I am not familar with NYC and the way they do things so I dont want to get you in a heap of trouble. If you have your own meter and pay the electric I would shut off all breakers you cant find and see if any neighbors complain. Make sure you are not shutting down and fire alarm eq. These should not be on their own circuit but who knows what they did.

[BigMacFU]

Thanks Bass, wasn't sure if you needed a positive and a negative and that technically completed one circuit. So, yeah, I guess in an apartment with 5 rooms and 6 circuits, only 2 are actually being used, one takes on every outlet in the apartment (including those with appliances plugged in), and one takes the built-in overhead lighting. The one that fed all the outlets was hooked up to a 15 amp, I switched it to a 20. I left the overhead lighting on a 15. Only major appliances are a Fridge, Microwave, mini-fridge. Other than that I've got the usual electronics, TV, Computer, Ext. Hard Drive. Oh yeah, and no fire alarm routed through the electrical system.

[Kenyth]

Yeah, I've got my own panel, my own contract with ConEd, what I don't get is, since there are 6 one pole breakers, which means 3 full circuits (right?) the other two don't even go to outlets in the apartment, nor my lighting, what is going off when I put them in the off position? It's like the mysterious light switch everyone has. I wish they went to my neighbors apartment so I could refuse to give them power till they rewired my building. The building has been renovated over the last 10 years piece by piece, and the wire is a fairly thick gauge. Ah NY.

I must say I sympathize with you. In these conditions it must be hell getting your landlord to fix anything broken. Six breakers should mean six circuits. One should go to your central heat, and one to central AC. That could be why you don't see what they do. Anyway, rewiring a panel for efficiency and safety isn't rocket science, so hiring an electrician to do it and getting your landlords permission would be the next best option. The electrician should be able to identify everything you have a question about and tell you what's possible and what's necessary.

[Woanzenagi]

Doesn't the panel have a legend in it to tell you what each breaker is for? It's a requirement to acccording to national codes that each breaker be labeled to it's purpose. Even spares must be marked as such.

[mauied1101]

Doesn't the panel have a legend in it to tell you what each breaker is for? It's a requirement to acccording to national codes that each breaker be labeled to it's purpose. Even spares must be marked as such.

If it is, it's loosely enforced... I don't have mine labeled... had to go around and do the on/off thing to figure out what was going on...