Potential Beetle. Help

**planenut** · 06-28-2006, 09:47 PM

I Bought a box of Indian Tabac Maduro Super Fuerte Corona from Atlantic Cigar and today I discovered this. All the other 24 look OK as well as the 7 freebies.

I'm hoping this is just some other damage.

The hole goes through the at least three layers of cellophane (the first layer and again where it folds back over). A fair amount of dust comes out when tapped.

Pleae advise.

bigpoppapuff · 06-28-2006, 09:52 PM

first off...call the asswipe that owns atlantic and tell him....demand new product...get that cigar away from the rest...though it could be too late.....put 'em in your freezer for three days...then bring 'em back by putting 'em in the fridge...though technically home freezers aren't as cold as what they'd use in the factory...

and then consider telling dimitri to go fuck himself...and buy from a different supplier...

**planenut** · 06-28-2006, 09:52 PM

let me try uploading again.

bigpoppapuff · 06-28-2006, 09:54 PM

Recently, complaints have once again been accumulating about the active life of the "Lasioderma Serricorne", the dreaded tobacco beetle, in cigar boxes. There is possibly a secret weapon now existing to eventually eliminate these small beasts that cannot even be seen by the bare eye - the microwave.

The tobacco beetle exists in all tobacco-planting countries and infests the tobacco leaf before it is processed. In Caribbean countries, the hot climate suits this terror of the aficionados particularly well. When the larvae (up to 4mm long, white and plump) hatch, the moths eat their way through the tobacco or, respectively, through the cigar - this can be detected by the small punctures which show up on the wrapper leaf. Then a cigar often looks like a small flute.

Exposing the tobacco to gas in their countries of origin obviously seems to help only in a limited way, since this insect turns out to be very capable of surviving. Like the moth, the tobacco is also filled with life - of a botanical type. Up until recently, the attempt was to destroy the beetle and the larvae of the infested cigars by shock-freezing them at the temperature of minus 20 to 22 degrees centigrade. Tobacco importers, though not all of them, are deep-freezing their tobaccos, as well as their cigars, for up to 14 days.

Tobacco importers like Philipp Schuster of August Schuster Cigarrenfabrik in Bünde, fared very well with this method - however at a freezing temperature of minus 28 degrees centigrade! "At higher freezing temperatures, the larvae and eggs of the to-bacco beetle can still survive, even if the moths themselves die". This is exactly the point. Botanists also admit the survivability, even at low temperatures.

The humidors, and not just the electrically and electronically controlled humidors of tobacconists, are creating permanent Caribbean environmental conditions around the clock, independent of the seasonal conditions in their countries of origin. The Cologne cigar pro Peter Heinrichs had extensive problems with the tobacco beetle brought in with a lot of boxes.

His shock-freezing experiments did not prove to be a lasting solution. After the deep-freezing there are no more moths caught in scented "love traps" anymore, since in principle the insects were annihilated. However the larvae, which remain encapsulated in the cigars, are not neccessarily destroyed. The thicker the cigar, the better the chances are that eggs and larvae will survive even icy temperatures. The life-cycle of the beetle from the laying of the egg up to the hatching of the larvae is around 46 days. In climate-controlled rooms and humidors and at a temperature of 20 degrees centigrade, the beetles are laying eggs only once. In Caribbean countries, at a temperature often by far exceeding 30 degrees centigrade, a repetition of egg production occurs.

Peter Heinrichs lowered the temperature of the humidor down to 17-18 degrees centigrade and at the same time the humidity as well - under 60%. What happened was that in the shock-frozen boxes, the beetles gradually moved to the wrapper surface of the cigar - evidence of the survivability of the larvae. "Even before opening the filler, one could see under the magnifying glass, that the encapsulated larvae still lived".

Heinrichs experimented with the possibility of destroying the larvae with gamma rays. The idea with the microwave was then born. It was quickly observed that some cigars couldn't stand the ray treatment, regardless of its duration or degree. Heinrichs exposed the cigars by entire boxfuls for 3 minutes at a maximum setting of 350 watts. Of course, the cigars totally dried up. After being microwaved, the boxes are deep-frozen for 24 hours at a temperature of minus 20 degrees centigrade, and immediately thawed at room temperature. During this process, the cigars regain their moisture, as Heinrichs says, in contrast to the cigars being thawed in the refrigerator, where the moisture would be withdrawn from them. This method obviously functions, and can be used by the aficionado as well. The cigars should never be put into the microwave individually, but only together as whole boxes, then transferred immediately into the freezer - single cigars can be put into plastic bags as well - after that they should be thawed at room temperature and returned to the humidor. All cigars kept in the humidor must be checked individually for the tobacco beetle. Already infected cigars, recognizable by the small punctures in the wrapper leaf, should be disposed of immediately, and the others should also undergo the microwave process as a precaution, packing single cigars together in a box. Give the humidor a lukewarm wipe and definitely do not use any disinfection sprays.
[excerpted from the European Cigar Journal]

**planenut** · 06-28-2006, 09:56 PM

They have been in the humidor with the other stuff since Friday the 23rd. Shipped two days before that.

2 layers stayed in bigger humidor inside box.

other layer is smaller humidor mixed in with other cigars.

Have them all removed right now and in large ziploc bag.

**planenut** · 06-28-2006, 10:02 PM

My son pointed out that I had a toothpic in each corner of the box to hold the lid open for ventilation. What are the chances that this was caused by the toothpic? It seems to fit the hole...

Maybe I created this?

**tampacigargirl** · 06-28-2006, 10:04 PM

I always recommend you segregate your mail order cigars for a time, put them in a zip lock bag with a small opening for 90 days. I've had this happen to customers from other places. And BPP is right, call them and tell them about it. A lot of mail order co's in my 2nd hand exp. don't give a shit,(I don't mail order, just hear from those that do) but if they are reputable they will do something to compensate you.

**tampacigargirl** · 06-28-2006, 10:06 PM

Looking at your pic it could be possible since the hole wasn't "clean". There was a little scrapping there I'd never seen with a beetle, but could be wrong.

**planenut** · 06-28-2006, 10:10 PM

I'm afraid I am having a panic attack over nothing and don't want to give Atlantic a bad name. Perhaps it is from the toothpic. Up close it almost looks like it could have punctured the cigar and then layed over compressing the tobacco. Also it is the only one and the only hole anywhere...

I wish there was a sure way to know. And again I don't want to say anything bad about Atlanctic if it was done by me. They had very fast shipping (2 day delivery).

And would a beetle eat through three layers of cellophane?

**tampacigargirl** · 06-28-2006, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by planenut

I'm afraid I am having a panic attack over nothing and don't want to give Atlantic a bad name. Perhaps it is from the toothpic. Up close it almost looks like it could have punctured the cigar and then layed over compressing the tobacco. Also it is the only one and the only hole anywhere...

I wish there was a sure way to know. And again I don't want to say anything bad about Atlanctic if it was done by me. They had very fast shipping (2 day delivery).

And would a beetle eat through three layers of cellophane?

Don't know, but I know mice and roaches do.. :) Quarenteen the sticks in a zip lock and keep an eye on them. that is the best way to know... also if you tap them does there seem like a more than normal amount of "dust" coming from them?

PS. If anything is misspelled my copy & paste isn't working to perform a spell check!

bigpoppapuff · 06-28-2006, 11:07 PM

atlantic already has a bad name...with suppliers....(tnt,also)......fuck him!!!!

**Bkcloud114** · 06-28-2006, 11:16 PM

Three layers of cellophane ???

I think ya hit it with the toothpick.....

Take BPP's advice anyways..... and tell Dimitri to go FUCK himself (I do not know Dimitri)

**planenut** · 06-28-2006, 11:48 PM

Ok, It's Official. I'm an idiot!

Toothpick lines up perfectly with all the holes (cello and cigar). No other cigars are damaged. Hole is in the right place for it to have happened. Not blaming son but I remember him opening the box and commenting "oh there is are toothpicks keeping it from closing!" These are really his cigars after all but his humidor won't hold a whole box. Oh, and one of the toothpics is blunt on both ends as if it had some pressure put on it. I tested this theory on another cigar and it takes a suprising amount of pressure to puncture the cello/cigar and blunts the toothpick. I guess he and I will have to smoke these two cigars with holes in them tomorrow!

And to think I've always thought I acted pretty cool under fire but I sure got excited quickly over this.

Thanks for everyone's help. Maybe I will be able to sleep now.

**kirkus949** · 06-29-2006, 09:46 AM

false alarm!!!!!

**Shelby07** · 06-29-2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by planenut

Ok, It's Official. I'm an idiot!

Toothpick lines up perfectly with all the holes (cello and cigar). No other cigars are damaged. Hole is in the right place for it to have happened. Not blaming son but I remember him opening the box and commenting "oh there is are toothpicks keeping it from closing!" These are really his cigars after all but his humidor won't hold a whole box. Oh, and one of the toothpics is blunt on both ends as if it had some pressure put on it. I tested this theory on another cigar and it takes a suprising amount of pressure to puncture the cello/cigar and blunts the toothpick. I guess he and I will have to smoke these two cigars with holes in them tomorrow!

And to think I've always thought I acted pretty cool under fire but I sure got excited quickly over this.

Thanks for everyone's help. Maybe I will be able to sleep now.

Whew!! Glad to hear you're an idiot, too. It's good to know I'm not alone!

bigpoppapuff · 06-29-2006, 11:03 AM

you can still call dmitri and tell him he's an asshole....then start buying your cigars from caminoviejo or rockyscigars.....

**planenut** · 06-29-2006, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by bigpoppapuff

you can still call dmitri and tell him he's an asshole....then start buying your cigars from caminoviejo or rockyscigars.....

Roger Wilco. Didn't realize caminoviejo sold Indian Tabac...

Thanks to everyone. Maybe if a couple people called me and idiot I'd feel better.... :)

**Shelby07** · 06-29-2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by planenut

... Maybe if a couple people called me and idiot I'd feel better.... :)

Nah... Happens to me all the time. It doesn't help.

**JCHouston** · 06-29-2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by planenut

Ok, It's Official. I'm an idiot!

Toothpick lines up perfectly with all the holes (cello and cigar). No other cigars are damaged. Hole is in the right place for it to have happened. Not blaming son but I remember him opening the box and commenting "oh there is are toothpicks keeping it from closing!" These are really his cigars after all but his humidor won't hold a whole box. Oh, and one of the toothpics is blunt on both ends as if it had some pressure put on it. I tested this theory on another cigar and it takes a suprising amount of pressure to puncture the cello/cigar and blunts the toothpick. I guess he and I will have to smoke these two cigars with holes in them tomorrow!

And to think I've always thought I acted pretty cool under fire but I sure got excited quickly over this.

Thanks for everyone's help. Maybe I will be able to sleep now.

Ya still gotta be careful with those buggers. I found some in a single wrapped Zino about a week ago.
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/t4709-bugs.html

You can see a photo here of what they looked like on mine. Luckily they never hit the humi.

BTW "You're an idiot" - Now you are officially a member of a fast growing group of which I am a card carrying charter member.
Have fun reorganizing your smokes.

JC

**Cigar Penguin** · 06-29-2006, 10:19 PM

Anyone want to enlighten me on Atlantic?

I have made at least 45 purchases from them and never once had a problem.If something was out of stock but the website wasnt updated....which is more often than I'd like,he calls right away and is very nice on the phone.Cancellations and switching of orders were not a problem either.Plus,for me,a big plus is I get my order in what seems like less then 24hrs!Cigars are always fresh too.
Now I understand others may not have had such great experiances with a particular retailer or Atlantic but I never heard anything bad except a few bad rapping replies now and then when the name Atlantic pops up but never heard the details.
So,with that said,can someone enlighten me,maybe I need not bother with Atlantic?

Maybe some info on TNT as well,it seems to be that retailer is popping up alot as the padron prices are very low and popular.One person mentioned dry cigars upon arrival,any other reasons I should stay away from TNT?

Thanks