OK, enough bullshit.

[ggiese]

The other thing that I'm seeing a fair amount of is this idea that we should all get along. Sure - that's a wonderful mantra, but sometimes that's like telling a 900 pound woman she needs to squeeze into a size 3 for a wedding. As hard as you may try to make it fit - you know it's not going to happen - and it is not very pretty when it's attempted. So why even suggest it???

It also seems like people on this board are somtimes drawn to the controversy like a moth to the flame. The discussion is going on between two or so people - both making valid points. Then you have some goofball stick his/her nose into the mess with this "take this somewhere else" crap. How the hell do you then get all butt-hurt because they're told to STFU? Especially someone who has no history, doesn't understand the dynamics, hasn't researched the issue, etc. I'm sorry - ya can't blame the fire for you burning your hand...

[ggiese]

Thanks George.

Just for my own interest, I'll sit this weekend with a smoke and a coffee or three and spend some time searching and reading. And I'll do it with an open mind!!

I'll also keep this part in mind too, it's pretty important IMHO:

Good luck to you!

Also - one of the other things you will not have the advantage of evaluating is the subtle ploys and timing of the ploys that were going on at the time. i.e. - sigtags, member titles and avatar photos.

My member title is a remanant of those days - you'd have to have been here at that time to understand why and by what context it is significant. Basically, though, it has to do with an individual putting "CS - a bad place for Dems" in their member title after a certain sequence of significant events took place. Subtly (as subtle as an elephant can be) he was telling the community he believed the whole issue at the time had to do with the poop hitting the fan over political affiliations, when in reality it had more to do with his (and his friends) manners.

[Newfie]

snip....
Also - one of the other things you will not have the advantage of evaluating is the subtle ploys and timing of the ploys that were going on at the time. i.e. - sigtags, member titles and avatar photos.
....snip

I know, and that's unfortunate. I've seen some tags, titles and avtars that were quite "strange" to say the least, and quite ................................... the word "provoke" comes to mind, but not quite sure of the context to use it in.

I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Newfie]

I know, and that's unfortunate. I've seen some tags, titles and avtars that were quite "strange" to say the least, and quite ................................... the word "provoke" comes to mind, but not quite sure of the context to use it in.

I'm sure you know what I mean.

EDIT:

Oh year, congrats on your 3000th post too!!

[ggiese]

SUMBITCH!!! How did that escape me...







...and I wanted my 3,000 post to be the posting of NSFW pictures!!!

[cigar no baka]

Good luck to you!

Also - one of the other things you will not have the advantage of evaluating is the subtle ploys and timing of the ploys that were going on at the time. i.e. - sigtags, member titles and avatar photos.

My member title is a remanant of those days - you'd have to have been here at that time to understand why and by what context it is significant. Basically, though, it has to do with an individual putting "CS - a bad place for Dems" in their member title after a certain sequence of significant events took place. Subtly (as subtle as an elephant can be) he was telling the community he believed the whole issue at the time had to do with the poop hitting the fan over political affiliations, when in reality it had more to do with his (and his friends) manners.

Exactly! It didn't have to do with political beliefs, but the manner in which they were expressed!!!

[CoventryCat86]

OK Bill, I thought I already answered your question, but here goes again:



So, if you're interested and if you can find it, please tell me where I said:

I NEVER said you "said" anything and now you're "snipping" my post to make it look like something it's not.

Once again, trying to have a reasonable dialog with you is virtually impossible without you acting like as ass so I'll try one more time. Here is my question to you, it's a QUESTION newfie, NOT me "putting words in your mouth" or saying that you "said" something. One more time, this is a QUESTION and it would be nice if you'd answer it:

So Newfie according to your logic, it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it, correct?

Based on your first post here, I drew what I thought was a reasonable conclusion regarding your logic which was that you seem to think it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it.

If I'm wrong, please explain to me why I'm wrong.

[CoventryCat86]

Hiya George.

No doubt this will come to a resolution one way or another. Unfortunately, it may mean people leaving unnecessarily, that's what I hate about the situation.

Someone please tell me if I'm 100% right, totally out to lunch, or somewhere in the middle when I say I believe much if this is fueled by political beliefs!!

You are totally out to lunch, none of "this is fueled by political beliefs." While I can't speak for sid, I'd venture a cigar bet that he agrees with me on this.

As far as people "leaving unnecessarily" when are people like you going to ever get it through your thick heads that people come and go from forums like this for MANY reasons with dusts up ranking as a very small percentage in the whole scheme of things.

[cinda]

I think this has been discussed in circles and in order to move forward it would help to have a goal. My question to you is....What would end this for you CC? What would have to happen to put this puppy to bed?

I say this to you with all due respect please make the goal realistic.

[CoventryCat86]

I think this has been discussed in circles and in order to move forward it would help to have a goal. My question to you is....What would end this for you CC? What would have to happen to put this puppy to bed?

I say this to you with all due respect please make the goal realistic.

"end" what and what is "this puppy?" Why are you singling me out specifically?

It's not just me cinda because if I were to say "everything's cool with me" there are a WHOLE lot of other people out there who are extremely unhappy with sid so while your quest for a simple "end" is a noble one, it's an unrealistic one.

Even if I were to say "I'm leaving, and I will never post here ever again." do you think that would "end" anything or put some "puppy to bed?" I highly doubt it.

[cinda]

I am not sure I am singling you out rather I am asking you your opinion on a resolution to the situation that you presented to the board. The puppy is what ever you determine it to be for you. That is why I asked.

I suppose if I presented the same question to myself I would have to answer it by saying that clip needs not to be associated with the board. How that is done or if that is done I suppose is up to Hex and /or BPP.

I was just hoping there was a way to reslove it that all.

[ggiese]

I think this has been discussed in circles and in order to move forward it would help to have a goal. My question to you is....What would end this for you CC? What would have to happen to put this puppy to bed?

I say this to you with all due respect please make the goal realistic.

You're right - this has been discussed way more than it should have been. I have to be honest - I have a headache.

We have a number of people that are reading a particular post or series of posts and interpreting the entire episode based upon what they just read. It has no context - it has no overall relevance - it is just a snipit a much larger issue. Kinda like watching a small segment of The Notebook, seeing a comedic element and calling the whole movie a comedy.

Some in this community are trying to understand where people are coming from with their thoughts about recent events. To be honest, they should be reading all of the history of this issue and then interjecting their feelings - not asking for the Reader's Digest condensed version. I know it's Kinda tough to do that - it is spread out all over the board in various threads and there is no guide that could possibly navigate someone through all of the mess (Newfie says he's going to try this weekend - maybe when he's all done he can put something together for us - IF he reads ALL of it.).

What's it going to take Bill to stop? Please Bill - I'm not taking words out of your mouth but I think I understand what your thoughts are on this. It really is quite simple

1. Quite defending sid (or anyone else that deserves an ass smacking because of their behavior).
2. sid (and anyone else that is acting like and ass deserved of a good ass smacking) must publically apologize and make ammends for his/her behavior.
3. Don't make a post that is not accurate, and then expect the community to ignore it. If you're going to say it, defend it. If you can't defend it, don't say it. If you don't know HOW to defend it, don't involve yourself in the controversial threads!
4. Quit shooting the messenger for the message.

Honestly - I think the message is out there. It is what it is. Some may disagree that sid did some pretty stupid, self-centered, egotistical, arrogant, obnoxious things - and did it in a way that was freakin' sneaky. But it is what it is - and a very significant portion of the senior membership here believe sid screwed up (even though quite a few really like the guy) and should apologize for his behavior...

It goes back to what I said earlier in this thread - and I'm frustrated that some have chosen to ignore it. It took me a while to piece that post together...

The other thing that I'm seeing a fair amount of is this idea that we should all get along. Sure - that's a wonderful mantra, but sometimes that's like telling a 900 pound woman she needs to squeeze into a size 3 for a wedding. As hard as you may try to make it fit - you know it's not going to happen - and it is not very pretty when it's attempted. So why even suggest it???

It also seems like people on this board are somtimes drawn to the controversy like a moth to the flame. The discussion is going on between two or so people - both making valid points. Then you have some goofball stick his/her nose into the mess with this "take this somewhere else" crap. How the hell do you then get all butt-hurt because they're told to STFU? Especially someone who has no history, doesn't understand the dynamics, hasn't researched the issue, etc. I'm sorry - ya can't blame the fire for you burning your hand...

You want to put this puppy to bed? Read my above quoted previous post and See points 1, 2, 3 and 4...



Now if you don't mind - I'm going to go back to being a smartass. Those of you who want to argue like a bunch of sixth grade girls fighting over the cutest boy in class - keep it up. Gloves are off - you're going to get your asses smacked!!!

[CoventryCat86]

Please Bill - I'm not taking words out of your mouth but I think I understand what your thoughts are on this. It really is quite simple

1. Quit defending sid (or anyone else that deserves an ass smacking because of their behavior).
2. sid (and anyone else that is acting like and ass deserved of a good ass smacking) must publicly apologize and make ammends for his/her behavior.
3. Don't make a post that is not accurate, and then expect the community to ignore it. If you're going to say it, defend it. If you can't defend it, don't say it. If you don't know HOW to defend it, don't involve yourself in the controversial threads!
4. Quit shooting the messenger for the message.

I don't think I could have said it better myself George.

[Dickson]

This is going stale, even for me. Someone make a move, either way. Amends, or not.

[Newfie]

snip...So Newfie according to your logic, it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it, correct?....snip

NO!!!!

Is that clear enough for you to understand?? Is that proper for you?? Is the spelling correct??

I have read, re-read, and studied my original post again and I still get the same meaning I intended in the first place, and there is no way I can interpret or read into it what you did, and i furthermore and once again invite you to explain how you arrived at that theory. Until that time, in my honest opinion, there's nothing more you have to say to me.

MIGUEL:

You have my sincerest apologies for even starting this thread and muddying the database of the Board with the shit contained with-in. If I could delete the thread, I would as I had no idea someone would so grossly misinterpret my words!!.

[ggiese]

MIGUEL:

You have my sincerest apologies for even starting this thread and muddying the database of the Board with the shit contained with-in. If I could delete the thread, I would as I had no idea someone would so grossly misinterpret my words!!.

I'm highly offended, newfie. Very selfish - now that you've heard the explanations and want the discussion cleared out. I was honestly and sincerely trying to answer your questions and you want to wipe that all out? You make it feel like you didn't want to hear what I had to say - you already had your mind made up and it didn't matter.

However, rhere's some very good points that have been made in this thread and it is good for everyone to understand thoughts behind the posts. To erase this thread sure would be a shame. We could point to this thread when some newbie comes in and tries to understand why someone is being beat up! It's not like we've never had this discussion before!

My take? Maybe we need more of these kinds of threads to better understand one another and maybe it will reduce future confrontations.

[ggiese]

This is going stale, even for me. Someone make a move, either way. Amends, or not.

Oh, nice - now you're stirring the pot...

[Newfie]

I'm highly offended, newfie. Very selfish - now that you've heard the explanations and want the discussion cleared out. I was honestly and sincerely trying to answer your questions and you want to wipe that all out? You make it feel like you didn't want to hear what I had to say - you already had your mind made up and it didn't matter.

However, rhere's some very good points that have been made in this thread and it is good for everyone to understand thoughts behind the posts. To erase this thread sure would be a shame. We could point to this thread when some newbie comes in and tries to understand why someone is being beat up! It's not like we've never had this discussion before!

My take? Maybe we need more of these kinds of threads to better understand one another and maybe it will reduce future confrontations.

George, you are one of the members of this board for whom I have the utmost of respect for, and that particular post was not in any way intended to offend you or anyone else I have any respect for (whether or not I agree with their views). I DO agree with you that there have been several quality posts and many good points brought up with-in this thread, but unfortunately, the bull contained with-in may outweigh the beneficial posts. Maybe I am being selfish by wishing the thread be obliterated from existance. However, that being said, it is still my full intention to do quite a bit more research into the reasonings behind some of the posts I have classed as "Hate".

I have stated that I believed many were "fueled" by political views, and disagreeing with those of others. I believe Baka may have shed some light on that for me by saying it wasn't necessarily the "views", but how they were presented, and I thank him for that.

However, that ray of light had nothing to do with my wishing the thread was gone.

[Shelby07]

...He's another shelby who whines and pisses and moans about things he doesn't like and then engages in EXACTLY the behavior he claims to find so objectionable.

He can't even make cogent arguments without personal attacks and illogical reasoning so just like shelby, there's no reasoning with him...
.

Well, now that Hex's request is negated, let me try this my way...

I can't figure out if this is fuckin' hilarious, inanely stupid or just plain sad...

Another Shelby? (is your caps key broken?)

You're a fuckin' nut. You prove it almost every time you show that you can't reply "intelligently" to a well thought out post that you disagree with. Read Newfie's post then read your answer, you ignorant bastard.

C'mon, Bill - show the general populace that you can do something besides fling shit at me. They stuck up for you here... the least you can do is show them that they backed a good horse. Give them some kind of thought out response. Take a look at Newfie's post and try again. You're on a roll. Just remember what happened to Barry when he was on a roll. Be careful, the same thing could happen to you.

Newfie's post was intelligent and well presented. Instead of replying to his posts, you just used it as another opportunity to whine about me. Your butt must be all hurt over me 'cause you just can't let it go.

You couldn't write an intelligent response if your fuckin' life depended on it, and for the life of me I can't figure out why the folks on this board think you are such an asset - especially when you show your ass so often.

...wait a minute.... is there a connection there???

Y'know Bill, I think you must have gotten beaten up alot when you were a kid. You really need to get over it. You're supposed to me a grown man now.

...and by the way, you never did answer my question. Do you actually own a home in Nova Scotia? Please let me know as I'd like to apologize if you do... but I don't think you do. I think it's just more of your bullshit. And I know it comes right back to something I posted.

What a fuckin' nut!

[Shelby07]

Newfie - I think baka hit the nail on the head.

Most of the "players" in this latest dust up have not been here to understand the context of the argument. Kinda like walking into a husband and wife screaming at each other and saying it's a bunch of noise and not in the least bit useful. Sure - at the moment is stinks - but it should (theoretically) lead to resolution (one way or the other). Hard for someone to judge who's right or wrong because there is no context - you have no history behind the current dispute. Siding with one or the other is really not the appropriate thing to do. Believe me - I've been there and done that. One of the most dangerous things you can do is to step in the middle of that...

Most of the current people upset by these events were not here when CC came to this board. Many were not here in previous disputes. Quite a few were not here for the genesis of the current dispute. Personal relationships between "disputees" and some of the people expressing frustrations with the current malaise did develop AFTER the dispute started - which would logically color (or colour, for you Canadians in the audience) your judgment. Honestly think about it - it really may not be in your means to understand what's going on. So, logically, opinions that you express will most likely ruffle one side or the other.


BTW - despite your best efforts to deny it - this is about as close as you can get to a full blown democracy. With all the craziness usually associated with being able to say pretty much what you want. There are limits - as in yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. What CC is saying is challenging, no doubt - but it does not rise to the level of "fire". Learn to accept there are differing viewpoints, and learn to argue with a mind that is not clouded by personal feelings.

In other words - develop a thick skin...

I think you gat it wrong here, George...

Most of the "current" people have either been offended personally or have hade their sensibilities offended in one way or another by Bill. It has nothing to do with what happened before they got here, but what they have seen after they got here. To change your analogy a bit, it's more like walking in on a husband and wife fighting and having the husband slug you because you don't agree with his side of the argument. In one breath you say it will lead to a resolution, in the next you say that we shouldn't comment because we don't know what went on over a year ago. It doesn't make sense.

And a full blown democracy would probably mean majority rule. I think most people here would like to see the fighting that has apparantly gone on for a long time come to an end. That would mean that people who have a disagreement should resolve it or just let it die. But this won't happen as long as there are people here who want to fight forever.

I understand friendship and I respect standing by a friend, but don't you ever get tired of defending this guy? Why not let him stand on his own? He hates me because I am friends with Sid, but friend or no friend, I let Sid defend himself. It seems that you are in the unenviable position of having to come in and sweep up the messes that Bill makes.

And as for developing a thick skin, maybe you ought to have a little chat with Bill about that.