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With the release of the previously classified Intelligence report, saying the failed Iraq war is making more terrorists and us less safe, and Dumbya and the neocons still saying the opposite, does this help anyone else see how totally useless and completely retarded the neocon party is?
I would have to believe that anyone still backing even a single member of the pube party is equally unable to deal with reality.
Get a clue...WORST ADMINISTRATION EVER!!
Dumbya is FAR worse than Hoover. Hoover didn't start the Great Depression, but dumbya IS responsible for this bullshit.
God, feel the love, feel the love!! While I don't agree with Bush on everything, and vehemently disagree with him on a few big BIG issues, I don't think he's the worst president ever. I'd give that to hmmmm, let's see, FDR for starting the welfare state we live in today and are finally giving up.
Releasing the results of a classified document is not a good thing.
Not releasing the conclusions of the document is unconscionable.
When is the Bush administration going to start analyzing the situation in Iraq and start acting on the best available information?
This "Bring em on", "Stay the course", "Fight em in Iraq, rather than our supermarkets", "Hitler/Stalin incarnate", nonsense has got to be replaced with some accurate, calculating strategies to get our troops out of the quagmire he has created.
0.02
If you are president on 9/11, what do you do? Nothing?
I would do lots of stuff, none of which involves invading Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by cls515
Again the hype-Iraq is mentioned and immediately 9/11 enters the conversation.
Bush has said it-Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.
Terrorists caused 9/11. We need to get out of Iraq so we can stop terrorism. Thats the point of the US intelligence report, and now I read the point of the UN report.
Here, I will break it down simply:
US in Iraq = More terrorists
More terrorists = More 9/11
Our president should act on the above basis.
I would give it to Jimmy Carter myself. Let's see, he gives away the canal we built, let's Castro send all of his criminals and insane to us, the contras, and when Rammstein gets bombed he puts my dad and his men on guard duty in Germany with no bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by cigar no baka
All party banter aside, this situation, our globalized-technologized situation is just not an easy one to solve.
Dems claim they can cure terrorism by us leaving Iraq and the middle-east alone.
Repubs claim they can cure terrorism by eliminating dictators who harbor them.
Both have a point, both don't work. Hell, if we really wanted to eliminate terrorism, we could do so by becoming a terrorist/tyrannical world state. Somebody hiccups, we kill them. There is no easy solution. Yes, we could make every middle-east state a democracy, hell, we could unite the whole world under a great world state democracy. Guess what, it won't matter, terrorism is here to stay in our world, why, because injustice is a permanent condition of our governments. Hell, look at the enlightenment reasons for founding democracies, because everybody is a ruthless disgusting person left to their own devices, we must team up and prevent the majority from getting overrun by a minority (not writing racially here, but in the pure idea of democracy, majority by the people wins).
Furthermore, our own country's independence was technically founded through acts of terrorism, (violent acts perpetrated by individuals/groups who are not a political state themselves and are acting against a political state to achieve political/moral ends).
I'm by no means condoning terrorism, it is atrocious as a tea party or as planes flown into skyscrapers. What I am sick of though are the party-line towers, "the repubs have no answer!" Dems shout, "the dems are soft!" repubs shout. Neither party has a solution because both parties are way too concerned about maintaining their own power!!! Give me a break, our country is full of a bunch of power hungry jerks, and if our politicians were middle-easterners, I have no doubt most of them would be a part of Al Qaeda, why, because they both have the same goal, power. In the mid-east, you get power by blaming the West for your misery. In the West, you get power by blaming the other power for any misery. Don't you idiots who cling too much party lines get this. Neither party has an answer to terrorism because they don't need one, they only need to finger point at each other to maintain power, not actually solve our problems.
I'm not saying don't go out and vote either. But damnit, if we are going to be in a democracy, let's actually vote for people we want. Quit acting like sheep, write in somebody you think is worthy. If you think the typical dem or repub is worthy, then vote for them. Either way, quit talking about parties, because both of them only care about how they're going to maintain their own power, not about you, me or Duprey.
Now excuse me while I jump off my soap box, I'm done cleaning myself of this political filth.
I think you're leaving a few details out, but it works as a good right-wing ploy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacFu
If you want to see the real timeline proving how useless dumbya really is, watch this video...Dumbya just let it happen.
The recent Intelligence Report just proves that the rubber-stamping pubes continue to fuck things up, even when they know that they're doing the wrong thing (how about torture?). IMO, it's criminal.
FDR and Jimmy Carter were great Presidents when compared to the incompetence of the present moron in charge. Hell, Billy could have done a better job than dumbya.
Smokin', my whole point is to stop this finger pointing. Put the Dems in power and you'll have just as much finger pointing for them not curing terrorism as the repubs. Quit towing party lines so gosh darned much, they're both corrupt, power-hungry entities who never solve the real problems or want to. I mean, Clinton was offered Osama while he was in jail and said "no thanks, you can punish him," and that was after '96. Both parties have done little to solve the terrorist problem in recent history. Both parties will continue to solve little because they're so concerned with exactly what you're doing, just pointing fingers at the others and saying "YOU SUCK!" So, instead of involving politicians and parties in our discussions, why don't we actually discuss possible, intelligent ways to actually solve some of these issues. Hell, you come up with a good enough idea I'll vote for you (I'll register in california just to do so).
President Jimmy Cahtah would be my runner up for sure, for all those reasons plus many more.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWidow
The solution is simple.
nhcigarfan for president :smiley45:
Tyler, only if I get a special, still illegal supply of special 'gars once a month in my humidor :smiley2:
Well under my administration I will not be bound by the utter failure that is the current American foreign policy. Now I say current but that idiotic embargo has survived may Dems and reps. But I have a problem with ineffective legislation. Clearly the embargo doesn't work, so instead of holding back to try to get the populace to revolt, I say lets open the flood gates and show them how much better life would be with us. The current generation in Cuba has lived only knowing Castro. They know nothing else. Only through knowledge with change occur.
Vote Tyler.
I'll write you in :smiley20:
Barry - I have to agree with Sean on all of this - both sides (Dems and Republicans) hold responsibility on this issue equally. It is the OVERALL foreign policy of the US government that has caused our current state of affairs. And it does not have anything specifically to do with one particular thing (the Iraq war) that Bush did. This actually finds a big chunk of its roots in the Crusades (yep - the Muslim world is still pretty upset at the persecution they felt during that time when the Christian world wanted to convert all of Islam into Christianity). Israel coming in and claiming lands that the Muslim believe is theirs didn't help. US foreign policy (yep, democratic policies) using US resources to install and maintain regimes to "control" middle east lands. And, of course, the US decision to put soldiers boots on the ground on what are considered to "Holy" and "Sacred" lands to the Muslim world isn't helping. Sorry, Barry, but it did start WELL BEFORE we removed Sadam...Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
So - let's be isolationist... Let's pull ALL of our troops out of foreign lands and bring them home. That'll put an end to it... NOT
Let's pull our troops out of Iraq - that'll put an end to it... NOT Just like the Soviets leaving Afghanistan, things will get interesting in Iraq if that happens. I hate to say it - there wasn't a stable government in Iraq BEFORE we removed Sadam - there isn't one there now - and there won't be for some time to come. But there are at least a couple of governments (Syria and Iran, for example) that would love to control the riches beneath Iraq. Us pulling out right now certainly would allow for that region to be under the control of the very governments that spurned the creation and maintainence of Hezbollah. That would be a GREAT call for everyone concerned... :smiley2:
Straightening out this whole terrorist mess is not going to be solved by a change in the current administration. While you may not want to agree with it, George Bush was very prophetic when he initially said (after the 9/11 attacks) that this "war on terror" is going to go on for a VERY long time. Essentially, it will take GENERATIONS to straighten out the mess our previous generations have created for us.
Sincerely - Barry - it's going to take a VERY long and VERY concerted effort from ALL SIDES (Republicans, Democrats and Independents) to make this whole thing go away. One election is not going to do it - and polarization of sides is only going to make it worse.
I never said the Middle East wasn't fucked up before dumbya. What I am saying is he has increased the problem exponentially, and refuses to correct/change a completely clueless foreign policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
This is a strawman argument, another common right wing ploy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Dumbya is a moron, and everything he says is bullshit. Terrorism has been with us for thousands of years, and will ALWAYS be with us. Iraqs only involvement in terrorism comes as a direct result of our attacking them, and worsens as long as we're there. We gain NOTHING from being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
Actually, the only way to change the course of our Government, which is heading rapidly into the sewer with the terrorists, is to get rid of the pubic controlling party.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggiese
On the other side of the coin, I would have to say hands down the coolest President was Andrew Jackson. Once someone tried to shoot him on the steps of the Captial, but when the gun misfired he beat the shit out of the dude with a cane.Quote:
Originally Posted by cigar no baka