Thoughts on DLP...

I'm thinking about getting a DLP TV (probably a Samsung HL-S5087W or 56)...

Any thoughts on DLP monitors?

We have HD service, but we mostly watch SD stations (that's one reason I'm leaning toward the 50" instead of 56")...

I'll probably be switching over to Dish Network soon, as well My Cox SD signal is awful on my 32", I can't imagine what it would look like on a bigger TV. Dish is supposed to have the best clarity of any carrier. (plus I don't get Fox or CBS in HD; I need my HD football).

(really, I mostly want to play xbox 360 on a bigger screen :smiley1: )

Go with a projector with a Sattelite dish. Best picture, and biggest screen for the money.

I dont think that any satellite company has a better picture than any other. It all depends on who is broadcasting it. a digital picture should be the same on almost any DLP monitor. Now if your carrier has a bad connection, well thats different. We used to have Charter digital cable and I could see some "static" in the picture sometimes so we went with DirecTV.

As for the size, I would say go with what fits best in your place. If you go too big and sit close to the TV, it wont look as good.

I think Texas Insturments makes all the DMDs for the DLP TV's out there right now.

My bro-in-law, who's in the business of fixing TV's, suggests against the DLP's. He says too many moving parts makes for too great a chance of breakdown. He suggests LCD projector, but pay attention to the manufacturer. Not all projection bulbs cost the same to replace, and that's the big money item that will go in those sets...

I picked up a Panasonic LCD projector last year - an absolutely fantastic picture and a great deal (cost me around 1,500 without the extended warranty).

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

WTF are you guys talking about?:smiley5:

Here's my TV:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...86/BandWTV.jpg
I can get all thirteen channels.:smiley32: The damn thing takes a while to warm up but once it does, she's good to go!!

Someday, I may splurge for a UHF antenna so I can get channel 27 out of Worcester. MA!:smiley20:

It kinds of sucks in the winter sometimes, the antenna rotor freezes and it won't turn. If it's stuck in west, all I can get is the Hartford station and if it's stuck in east, all I get is the Boston and Providence stations. I just upgraded to the antenna on the roof last year, sure beats the hell out of those rabbit ears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empire23

I dont think that any satellite company has a better picture than any other. It all depends on who is broadcasting it. a digital picture should be the same on almost any DLP monitor. Now if your carrier has a bad connection, well thats different. We used to have Charter digital cable and I could see some "static" in the picture sometimes so we went with DirecTV.

---

The thing with digital video is it's compressed. That lets satllite and digital cable providers pack a lot of channels into a small "pipe", but compression comes at the cost of "artifacts" (blockiness, mosquitoes, etc).

Someone is actually suing DirecTV because they increased their compression after he signed up...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ggiese

My bro-in-law, who's in the business of fixing TV's, suggests against the DLP's. He says too many moving parts makes for too great a chance of breakdown. He suggests LCD projector, but pay attention to the manufacturer. Not all projection bulbs cost the same to replace, and that's the big money item that will go in those sets...

I picked up a Panasonic LCD projector last year - an absolutely fantastic picture and a great deal (cost me around 1,500 without the extended warranty).

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

---

I looked at a couple of the LCD rear projectors, but I think the image was lacking a little. Next time I'm near a home electronics store, I'll give them another look.

LCDs dont have a long life either like the DLPs to.

and what moving parts does a DLP have? the mirrors?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empire23

LCDs dont have a long life either like the DLPs to.

and what moving parts does a DLP have? the mirrors?

---

Yes - that's my understanding - and a crapload of mirrors at that... :smiley40:

After reading alot of this misinformation I figured I'd make a post of my own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteWidow

Go with a projector with a Sattelite dish. Best picture, and biggest screen for the money.

---

My problem with projo's is that even if it is in a darkened room, with Screen Goo it won't give the best picture. Plasmas will continue to have the best black levels and the best contrast ratios for a while.

I hate watching tv on a projo with the shades open because the pictures look washed out and not crisp. But sure watching a movie with the sound cranked up at night with the shades closed are awesome!

The problem with projectors is unless it is in a dedicated home theatre room with darkened windows (or no windows) and a properly prepared wall its going to suck for everyday viewing.

And if you go the projo route don't forget you will need to buy a cieling mount, extra long cables to run to your home theatre setup and you should have a reciever that handles your video switching.

If I had to buy a projo right now, but money would be on the Mitsubishi HD1000U & the Panasonic PT-AX100U. The Panny is a better projo but will cost you more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ggiese

My bro-in-law, who's in the business of fixing TV's, suggests against the DLP's. He says too many moving parts makes for too great a chance of breakdown. He suggests LCD projector, but pay attention to the manufacturer. Not all projection bulbs cost the same to replace, and that's the big money item that will go in those sets...

I picked up a Panasonic LCD projector last year - an absolutely fantastic picture and a great deal (cost me around 1,500 without the extended warranty).

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

---

Well according to your bro in law we should stop driving cars too? They have alot of moving parts, we all should just go back to riding bikes.

The first gen DLP's had alot of problems with their color wheels and most of them would give you rainbow effect. But in the last year or two TI has resovled all these issues and honestly a RP DLP is a great buy right now. Just makek sure it uses a 4x color wheel.

A couple of good deals.

61" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2850

50" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2185

Sony 50" 1080P LCD Rear Projo-$2250

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empire23

LCDs dont have a long life either like the DLPs to.

---

No electronics these days are supposed to have a long life. Just look at the MTBF on most plasmas. They average around 75000hrs. THats 8.5years if you leave it on 24/hrs a day.

Sure thats just supposed to be an average, but I recommend the extended warrantys.

Sure that $1500 tv might cost $200 for the warranty. But that 4 year warranty for $200 ends up costing you about 13 cents a day. I look at warranties this way, if you can afford or don't mind replacing it then don't buy the warranty.

I compare warranties to car insurance, you pay for your car insurance "in case shit happens" (well that and the law prolly requires it).

Here are some places you can check out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

the older LCDs didnt have a life of that long though. I guess it depends on what you buy but the DLPs out now shouldnt have any problems. I think also LCD screens can have the "burn in' effect if your using them for say a game system or even if you have your computer hooked up to it and use it alot for word or exel programs. DLP's wont get anything "burned in" the screen.

As for the moving parts, I wouldnt even worry about those breaking at all. If it does, it should be covered by the factory warranty.

I used to work at Circuit City and when you buy a TV like that, you can usually get the store warranty thrown in with the TV if you haggle enough with the sales person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empire23

the older LCDs didnt have a life of that long though. I guess it depends on what you buy but the DLPs out now shouldnt have any problems. I think also LCD screens can have the "burn in' effect if your using them for say a game system or even if you have your computer hooked up to it and use it alot for word or exel programs. DLP's wont get anything "burned in" the screen.

As for the moving parts, I wouldnt even worry about those breaking at all. If it does, it should be covered by the factory warranty.

I used to work at Circuit City and when you buy a TV like that, you can usually get the store warranty thrown in with the TV if you haggle enough with the sales person.

---

Circuit City blows... I bought my Panasonic LCD Projection TV from them with the promise that I would get a $200 CC gift card... (either that or I could get 0% financing). Yeah, right... Find out later it is tied to my "CC" Credit Card, which apparently is not handled by CC, and for some odd reason, noone at the store had recorded on my purchase that I wanted the points... The credit card company refused to honor it - CC refused to stick up for me, or to make it good... No 0% financing either... Fockers... :smiley7:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarvInSTL

After reading alot of this misinformation I figured I'd make a post of my own.



My problem with projo's is that even if it is in a darkened room, with Screen Goo it won't give the best picture. Plasmas will continue to have the best black levels and the best contrast ratios for a while.

I hate watching tv on a projo with the shades open because the pictures look washed out and not crisp. But sure watching a movie with the sound cranked up at night with the shades closed are awesome!

The problem with projectors is unless it is in a dedicated home theatre room with darkened windows (or no windows) and a properly prepared wall its going to suck for everyday viewing.

And if you go the projo route don't forget you will need to buy a cieling mount, extra long cables to run to your home theatre setup and you should have a reciever that handles your video switching.

If I had to buy a projo right now, but money would be on the Mitsubishi HD1000U & the Panasonic PT-AX100U. The Panny is a better projo but will cost you more.



Well according to your bro in law we should stop driving cars too? They have alot of moving parts, we all should just go back to riding bikes.

The first gen DLP's had alot of problems with their color wheels and most of them would give you rainbow effect. But in the last year or two TI has resovled all these issues and honestly a RP DLP is a great buy right now. Just makek sure it uses a 4x color wheel.

A couple of good deals.

61" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2850

50" 1080P DLP Rear Projo-$2185

Sony 50" 1080P LCD Rear Projo-$2250



No electronics these days are supposed to have a long life. Just look at the MTBF on most plasmas. They average around 75000hrs. THats 8.5years if you leave it on 24/hrs a day.

Sure thats just supposed to be an average, but I recommend the extended warrantys.

Sure that $1500 tv might cost $200 for the warranty. But that 4 year warranty for $200 ends up costing you about 13 cents a day. I look at warranties this way, if you can afford or don't mind replacing it then don't buy the warranty.

I compare warranties to car insurance, you pay for your car insurance "in case shit happens" (well that and the law prolly requires it).

Here are some places you can check out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

---

Hey, Harv - you got a DLP projector that's washed out... Boo-friggen-hoo... Mine looks great in full sun and full darkness. No problems with any of that, including black level. Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen. Sorry - but your theory goes right out the window when you see my TV... :smiley2:

Secondly - nope - I'm not going to stop buying cars because my brother in law tells me moving parts suck. That's as assinine a statement as I've ever heard... But - I will tell you this - if my bro-in-law were to tell me (because he's a mechanic and knows) that a certain make of vehicle is prone to problems I'm going to steer clear. It only makes sense, don't ya think? After all - he's theoretically the "expert"... :smiley2:

My bro-in-law - who services the DLP units tells me to choose a specific group of LCD projectors over a DLP because of issues related to the moving parts in the DLP's - I think I'm gonna pay attention... That's his game, right? But you service them as well, so you would know - I mean, you are the "expert", aren't you... :smiley4:

Sorry you took offense to my first post, Harv - hopefully you don't take more offense to this one... :smiley37:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empire23

the older LCDs didnt have a life of that long though. I guess it depends on what you buy but the DLPs out now shouldnt have any problems. I think also LCD screens can have the "burn in' effect if your using them for say a game system or even if you have your computer hooked up to it and use it alot for word or exel programs. DLP's wont get anything "burned in" the screen.

As for the moving parts, I wouldnt even worry about those breaking at all. If it does, it should be covered by the factory warranty.

I used to work at Circuit City and when you buy a TV like that, you can usually get the store warranty thrown in with the TV if you haggle enough with the sales person.

---

When you say older lcd's, are you talking about LCD Rear Projection TV's, LCD Flat Panel TV's/Monitors, LCD Projectors???

I don't see how any manufactor could have released any LCD product with a MTBF below 40000 hours. If you have any exact models or brands in question let me know and I'll find out.

LCD TV's are not affected by burn in either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ggiese

Circuit City blows... I bought my Panasonic LCD Projection TV from them with the promise that I would get a $200 CC gift card... (either that or I could get 0% financing). Yeah, right... Find out later it is tied to my "CC" Credit Card, which apparently is not handled by CC, and for some odd reason, noone at the store had recorded on my purchase that I wanted the points... The credit card company refused to honor it - CC refused to stick up for me, or to make it good... No 0% financing either... Fockers... :smiley7:

---

Honestly any big name electronics retail is going to have shitty service. Sure you might get a good sales person from time to time. But their overall objective is to make money, not to be concerned with saving you money.

The best service I've gotten have been from local family run stores that have been around for a few years. Problem with that is I would normally pay 20% more than what I could get it for at Best Buy or CC.

TI is the only mfg of DLP chips because, well, we invented it :smiley20: I bought a 46" Samsung several years ago through a work discount purchase plan (TI employee if you haven't already caught that hint) and I absolutely love it. Yes, it is comprised of millions of tiny mirrors that are constantly moving to give you the different colors for each pixel by reflecting a white light that is coming through a revolving color wheel (timing must be a real biotch!), but the movement is extremely tiny and lifetime expectations are ~20 years according to some documents I just Googled up. How many dead pixels or lines have you seen on LCD screens :smiley2: The sharpness of my 720p unit is amazing. I can't imagine how nice the new 1080p units are. This is the main tv of my home of 4 tv-aholics so it's racked up a ton service hours without a hitch. I'm still on the original bulb (only expected maintenance part) and I've never seen a rainbow, but that is supposed to be something to do with the viewers eyes so you'll either see it or you won't. I do notice a wierd shimmering of flesh tones on occasion if the lighting of the scene and video source are just right, but my wife can't see it. There is an occasional high pitched humming coming from the unit when you first turn it on that is either the color wheel motor or just an artifact of the high intensity bulb heating up. I have no idea which it is but it quits within 5 minutes on the rare occasion that it happens. There are no unusual lighting limitations of the room like a typical old school rear projection screen and the x-axis viewing angle is larger than any rear projection I've had a chance to compare to. The y-axis is more limited than the x-axis but it's completely viewable between the ranges of sitting on the floor and standing. Is it as nice as Plasma? No, but it's also way cheaper. LCD? Depends on the models you're comparing. Even if I weren't an employee I would consider DLP the best bang for the buck option out there.

I'll shut up now and let you get back to your regularly scheduled program :smiley37:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ggiese

Hey, Harv - you got a DLP projector that's washed out... Boo-friggen-hoo... Mine looks great in full sun and full darkness. No problems with any of that, including black level. Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen. Sorry - but your theory goes right out the window when you see my TV... :smiley2:

Secondly - nope - I'm not going to stop buying cars because my brother in law tells me moving parts suck. That's as assinine a statement as I've ever heard... But - I will tell you this - if my bro-in-law were to tell me (because he's a mechanic and knows) that a certain make of vehicle is prone to problems I'm going to steer clear. It only makes sense, don't ya think? After all - he's theoretically the "expert"... :smiley2:

My bro-in-law - who services the DLP units tells me to choose a specific group of LCD projectors over a DLP because of issues related to the moving parts in the DLP's - I think I'm gonna pay attention... That's his game, right? But you service them as well, so you would know - I mean, you are the "expert", aren't you... :smiley4:

Sorry you took offense to my first post, Harv - hopefully you don't take more offense to this one... :smiley37:

---

Sorry to say that no I don't have a DLP projector thats washed out. I've got a 42" 1080p LCD wall mounted in my front room.

My theory doesn't go out any window. How about you post the make and model of your projo and we can review specs and then I can decide if you are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

Besides just because it "Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen." doesn't make it the best picture available. It just makes it the nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture you have ever seen. I'm pretty sure the popluation of this earth is more than just 1.

I think you missed the point of my making the statement about cars and moving parts. I agree it is an assine statement, the point was that it is just as assine as your statement about not buying projo's because they have moving parts. :smiley32:

The keyword is "theoretically" the expert. Is he factory trained and authorised for any major manufactor repair? And unless he holds a cert from CEDIA, I personally won't believe a word out of his mouth. But thats just me, you have to believe him he is your bro in law.:smiley20:

Am I an expert? Can't say that I am, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either. :smiley41:

I didn't take offence to your first post at all, nor would I take offence to this one either. Taking offence over a post on the internet is so, whats the word,.....stupid.

The gist I'm trying to get accross to the OP is that one should never take the sole advice of one, but to gather information and experience the products he is interested in first hand. Then make a decision based upon that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bard

I've never seen a rainbow, but that is supposed to be something to do with the viewers eyes so you'll either see it or you won't. There is an occasional high pitched humming coming from the unit when you first turn it on that is either the color wheel motor or just an artifact of the high intensity bulb heating up.

---

If its under warranty or a service plan have a tech come out. It is your color wheel, or more specifically your color wheel bearings.

Its pretty easy to replace on the Samsungs, well at least the older ones. So if its not under warranty you could do it yourself.

As far as the rainbow goes, its hit or miss. Like you said some can see it, and other can't.
Everyone I know that has been able to see it on an older set with a 2x color wheel couldn't see it once they looked at a set with a 4x color wheel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperChuck

I looked at a couple of the LCD rear projectors, but I think the image was lacking a little. Next time I'm near a home electronics store, I'll give them another look.

---

I wouldn't go by the store set up. I would think the tv that the store wants to sell would have the best picture. And to speak on it, Panasonic is hard to beat. Sony is great too but a lot more expensive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarvInSTL

Sorry to say that no I don't have a DLP projector thats washed out. I've got a 42" 1080p LCD wall mounted in my front room.

My theory doesn't go out any window. How about you post the make and model of your projo and we can review specs and then I can decide if you are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

Besides just because it "Nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture I've ever had on a screen." doesn't make it the best picture available. It just makes it the nicest, crispest, sharpest, cleanest picture you have ever seen. I'm pretty sure the popluation of this earth is more than just 1.

I think you missed the point of my making the statement about cars and moving parts. I agree it is an assine statement, the point was that it is just as assine as your statement about not buying projo's because they have moving parts. :smiley32:

The keyword is "theoretically" the expert. Is he factory trained and authorised for any major manufactor repair? And unless he holds a cert from CEDIA, I personally won't believe a word out of his mouth. But thats just me, you have to believe him he is your bro in law.:smiley20:

Am I an expert? Can't say that I am, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either. :smiley41:

I didn't take offence to your first post at all, nor would I take offence to this one either. Taking offence over a post on the internet is so, whats the word,.....stupid.

The gist I'm trying to get accross to the OP is that one should never take the sole advice of one, but to gather information and experience the products he is interested in first hand. Then make a decision based upon that.

---

Well, seeing as how your an expert on everything DLP/LCD projection based upon your own admissions, and you KNOW my brother in law is not qualified to judge because he PROBABLY doesn't hold an "authorised" cert from CEDIA, I'll defer this argument to you. :smiley37:

Please, everyone - harv's humble, but he's definitely the expert - he says so, even if he doesn't claim to be. Listen to his advice and please don't take "offence" to what he says... For 27 years old, he's pretty doggone smaht... :smiley2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ggiese

Well, seeing as how your an expert on everything DLP/LCD projection based upon your own admissions, and you KNOW my brother in law is not qualified to judge because he PROBABLY doesn't hold an "authorised" cert from CEDIA, I'll defer this argument to you. :smiley37:

Please, everyone - harv's humble, but he's definitely the expert - he says so, even if he doesn't claim to be. Listen to his advice and please don't take "offence" to what he says... For 27 years old, he's pretty doggone smaht... :smiley2:

---

Well now it seems that you are the one taking "offence" to my posts.

I'm nowhere close to being a qualified DLP/LCD projector expert. All I was saying was that I'm not stupid when it comes to DLP/LCD projector repairs.

Based upon my own admission I'm an expert? I'm pretty sure I said quite the opposite in my last post.

Do I know that your brother in law is not qualified? I sure don't, hence the reason why I asked what certs and manufactors training he had recieved. Once again with you failing to provide this information I can only assume that he holds none of them.

As well I asked for your projector model and make information so I could review the specs. I don't know of any projectors in the $2500 range that can rival the 10000:1 contrast ratio that plasma's provide.

Am I humble? I sure am, if I'm wrong about something I'll own up to and by no means am I an expert in the field.

At 27 years old am I smart? Thats not for me to judge. But I can tell you I've met some people quite older than me and realized that wisdom doesn't always come with age.

Either way this has gotten way off topic. The OP wanted to know about DLP monitors, not DLP projectors. And I provided my input on the topic and the misinformation that was being spread in the topic.

So for my last post on this topic I'll address the OP's questions more directly.

Quote:

---

I'm thinking about getting a DLP TV (probably a Samsung HL-S5087W or 56)...

Any thoughts on DLP monitors?

---

The S5087W is an amazing set. The updated DMD & color wheel are fantastic and it is honestly one of the only 50" DLP RP sets I'd recommend. But I'd check around locally and see who carrys it, and see if there is a restocking fee if you return it. Most sets in store aren't configured properly and will look alot different in your home and not under those huge bright store lights.

If their return policy is liberal pick a few sets you like and test them for a week each. Once you find one you like do some searching on avsforum and see what they have to say about that particular unit.

If you get a chance I'd pickup a calibration DVD from Avia or the likes. Your alternative is having someone ISF certified calibrate your tv and that won't be cheap.

That way you can get it home, calibrate it and see if you like it or not. If you don't you can return it with no repercussions.

Just a reminder, make sure you have their return policy in writing. I've returned a tv to Best Buy twice before I settled on my current TV and both times they tried to tell me there would be a 15% restocking fee. Yet the policy on the back of their reciepts makes no mention of a 15% restocking fee on tv's,etc. Only on computers,laptops, and the like.

Quote:

---

I'll probably be switching over to Dish Network soon, as well My Cox SD signal is awful on my 32", I can't imagine what it would look like on a bigger TV. Dish is supposed to have the best clarity of any carrier. (plus I don't get Fox or CBS in HD; I need my HD football).

---

Even with Dishnetwork's 10 birds in the air the HD programming has all moved from MPEG2 to MPEG4. While DirecTV uses MPEG4 as well, the are currently dealing with a lawsuit in regards to them dropping the quality of their HD channels so that they save on bandwidth and offer more HD channels.

And Dish network is normally cheaper too!

DIRECTV Sued Over
HDTV Picture Quality

Quote:

---

(really, I mostly want to play xbox 360 on a bigger screen )

---

Then make sure you get a 1080p set, MS is releasing a software update later this year that will allow 1080p output. Couple that with the estimated retail price of less than $200 for the HD-DVD addon this holiday season. And we have a winnar!

http://kotaku.com/gaming/x06/rumor-x...dup-203314.php

There are quite a few more posts on the HD-DVD addon annoucement on xbox-scene.com

Sounds like the extended warranty would be a very good idea. :smiley20:
One of the places I was looking at this morning actually has a year extended in-home warranty w/annual cleaning for $300. I'll take that kind of insurance.

I'm not planning to buy anything until at least mid-October, when I'm going down to a friend's house (who happens to have a 50" samsung). By then, the prices will probably be so low I can get the TV + extended warranty for what I'd pay for the TV today...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarvInSTL

Well now it seems that you are the one taking "offence" to my posts.

I'm nowhere close to being a qualified DLP/LCD projector expert. All I was saying was that I'm not stupid when it comes to DLP/LCD projector repairs.

Based upon my own admission I'm an expert? I'm pretty sure I said quite the opposite in my last post.

Do I know that your brother in law is not qualified? I sure don't, hence the reason why I asked what certs and manufactors training he had recieved. Once again with you failing to provide this information I can only assume that he holds none of them.

As well I asked for your projector model and make information so I could review the specs. I don't know of any projectors in the $2500 range that can rival the 10000:1 contrast ratio that plasma's provide.

Am I humble? I sure am, if I'm wrong about something I'll own up to and by no means am I an expert in the field.

At 27 years old am I smart? Thats not for me to judge. But I can tell you I've met some people quite older than me and realized that wisdom doesn't always come with age.

Either way this has gotten way off topic. The OP wanted to know about DLP monitors, not DLP projectors. And I provided my input on the topic and the misinformation that was being spread in the topic.
So for my last post on this topic I'll address the OP's questions more directly.

---

Oh, you certainly are a smaht one... Excuse me while I clear up the mess you've created with your ego...

First of all, harv - your view of the world is not the world. Just because you believe it does, does not make it so. 27 years on the face of this earth obviously leaves you a tad light on experiences to draw on. Given your sharing your experiences with re-stocking fees at Best Buy, I'd say it fairly obvious you would not be satisfied with anything you purchase - despite the incredible wealth of knowledge you believe you possess... You're exactly the reason Best Buy charges a 15% restocking fee - you don't like the way the thing looks in the living room, it's a tad to dark, it's a tad too light, it doesn't do HDTV to an exacting standard - whatever - and you drop off a "used" set at Best Buy expecting a full 100% refund? Puhlease... I actually love your type... You're exactly the reason why I buy some of my electronics with an immediate 15% discount...

And yes - undeniably - there have been problems with the DLP's despite your denials. My LCD projector does have a very clear picture in a well lit, sunny room. It does have crisp colors, very black blacks - in other words - it does work extremely well despite your "clearing things up for us".

As far as my bro-in-law being certified... What - you want me to provide scans of his credentials??? That's as assinine as your moving parts in car comments. Given your obvious ego driven diatribe in this thread I'd say no matter what I told you, or what evidence I presented, it would not be nearly enough to overcome any "non-expert" opinion you may have...

Specs? You want specs? For what - so that you can do your "non-expert" expert review so you can clear up any misunderstandings?? Yeah - okay... :smiley36:

Wisdom does comes with age, harv - and you're obviously not quite there... Bottom line - don't be such a dick. :smiley2:


BTW - "manufactors(sic)" is spelled manufacturers

It's "i before e, except after c" - so "reciepts(sic)" is actually receipts

and "winnar!(sic)" is winner

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperChuck

Sounds like the extended warranty would be a very good idea. :smiley20:
One of the places I was looking at this morning actually has a year extended in-home warranty w/annual cleaning for $300. I'll take that kind of insurance.

I'm not planning to buy anything until at least mid-October, when I'm going down to a friend's house (who happens to have a 50" samsung). By then, the prices will probably be so low I can get the TV + extended warranty for what I'd pay for the TV today...

---

Chuck,

My brother-in-law (he does know, despite harv's insistence he doesn't) says you're out of your mind if you do not purchase the extended warranty. He's seeing well over 50% of the new sets coming in for repairs. That's WAY up compared to the way it way it was years ago. Given the complexity of the new sets (DLP has lots of moving mirrors and have had problems), and that the repairs are much more costly than they used to be, the extra insurance is actually a wise investment.

I had a Sony projection TV. Thinking it was a great company and I shouldn't have to purchase an extended warranty, I did not. One of the guns failed - which meant I had to replace all three. The cost of repair would have been more than the set was worth - and rivaled what it cost me to replace it. Needless to say - I have an extended warranty on my new set...

Ever since Baka and BPP have made peace, things were getting slow and boring. I'm glad that came to a halt. :smiley8:
But seriously, I've probably learned more about TV's in this post then all my trips to CC or Bestbuy. :smiley10:

What kinds of problems is your b-n-l seeing? The only moving parts that I'm aware of is the color wheel and the 1-2 million mirrors (720p vs 1080p) that are located on the DLP chip itself in an area about the size of a postage stamp. There is absolutely nothing any technician could do for the DLP mirrors other than replace the entire chip or maybe clean the window on the surface of the chip that the light shines through. Any other mirrors or focus lenses should be set in a fixed position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bard

What kinds of problems is your b-n-l seeing? The only moving parts that I'm aware of is the color wheel and the 1-2 million mirrors (720p vs 1080p) that are located on the DLP chip itself in an area about the size of a postage stamp. There is absolutely nothing any technician could do for the DLP mirrors other than replace the entire chip or maybe clean the window on the surface of the chip that the light shines through. Any other mirrors or focus lenses should be set in a fixed position.

---

That's actually EXACTLY what's prompting me to look into extended warranties: "replace the entire chip". If there was a disco ball in there and I could just glue broken mirrors back on, I'd consider it. But from what I understand, most of the system is on one chip.

I'm still not a fan of extended warranties, but it seems like the cost of repair and the possibility of defect outside of the manufacturer's warranty may warrant it. No pun intended. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cabaiguan Juan

But seriously, I've probably learned more about TV's in this post then all my trips to CC or Bestbuy. :smiley10:

---

Best thing you can do looking at TVs is LOOK at TVs. When I look at TVs, I spend hours just wandering around Best Buys and Circuit Cities staring at TVs. Stare up close, stare far away. Try to forget your brand loyalties.

It also helps to think about what you really want. When I bought my current tube TV everyone wanted to know why I didn't get a "big screen". Because I wanted a flat screen and a wide viewing angle. At the time, that meant sacrificing size for image quality.

Harv mentioned it, I've mentioned it before as well, get the Avia Guide to Home Theater Setup. It's $40 on Amazon or you can get it for around $30 on eBay. If you have a surround system, you're gonna need a sound pressure meter from radio shack (slurge and get the digital one).

I tune my TV and surround every 6 months or so. The first time you do it, you will be completely blown away.

Televisions are factory tuned to look good in a brightly lit store. If they were tuned for your dimly lit living room, they would look too dim in the store and you wouldn't buy them.

And surround sound needs to be balanced in order to operate properly. Part of the power of surround sound is the ability to transfer a sound from one speaker to another cleanly. In order to accomplish this, the sound output of the speakers must be equal. If you listen to Saving Private Ryan on an unbalanced system, you hear noise all around you. If you listen on a balanced system, you can actually hear bullets whizzing past your head.

The DVD has a whole porttion devoted to speaker placement and stuff like that, too.

And the most important part: ask people. If I didn't check in here, I wouldn't have George yelling at me to get an extended warranty and it never would have crossed my mind. :)

I've got a Sharp 9000 Projector and love it.

PJ's aren't for everyone. I've got a 14 x 22 room painted burgandy but furnished with regular furniture (couch, recliner etc.). Dark paint and curtains to inhibit light is not for everyone.

That said I love my DLP projector on the 12" screen.

I've had it for 4 years and the only maintenance is replacing the bulb. I've replaced it once and am due another one now. They only last 2000 hours.

Hence my point. check out the bulb life if you are thinking DLP or a few other types of TV's to factor in bulb cost. Mine is around 419.00. It's like buying a normal size TV every couple years just for a bulb. Also, you won't want to leave it on for show while you go in and out or to entertain your dog while you are at work! You should see ESPNHD though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by planenut

PJ's aren't for everyone. I've got a 14 x 22 room painted burgandy but furnished with regular furniture (couch, recliner etc.). Dark paint and curtains to inhibit light is not for everyone.

---

A buddy of mine painted the wall with the screen on it a couple shades darker than the other 3 walls. The result was incredibly subtle, but looked great.

[QUOTE]That said I love my DLP projector on the 12" screen. {/QUOTE}
You know, if you back the projecter up a bit, you can get that image bigger than 12 inches :smiley2:

Quote:

---

Hence my point. check out the bulb life if you are thinking DLP or a few other types of TV's to factor in bulb cost. Mine is around 419.00. It's like buying a normal size TV every couple years just for a bulb. Also, you won't want to leave it on for show while you go in and out or to entertain your dog while you are at work! You should see ESPNHD though!

---

Bulb life and price... Most run around $200 or so and live for 3000-6000 hours. There are some new LED-based units coming out that claim 20,000 hours without a color wheel.

It's a little like buying a car. You have to take into account the price of gas, insurance, tires, oil, etc. If you do your homework you won't get surprised at that first $100 oil change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperChuck

Best thing you can do looking at TVs is LOOK at TVs. When I look at TVs, I spend hours just wandering around Best Buys and Circuit Cities staring at TVs. Stare up close, stare far away. Try to forget your brand loyalties.

It also helps to think about what you really want. When I bought my current tube TV everyone wanted to know why I didn't get a "big screen". Because I wanted a flat screen and a wide viewing angle. At the time, that meant sacrificing size for image quality.

Harv mentioned it, I've mentioned it before as well, get the Avia Guide to Home Theater Setup. It's $40 on Amazon or you can get it for around $30 on eBay. If you have a surround system, you're gonna need a sound pressure meter from radio shack (slurge and get the digital one).

I tune my TV and surround every 6 months or so. The first time you do it, you will be completely blown away.

Televisions are factory tuned to look good in a brightly lit store. If they were tuned for your dimly lit living room, they would look too dim in the store and you wouldn't buy them.

And surround sound needs to be balanced in order to operate properly. Part of the power of surround sound is the ability to transfer a sound from one speaker to another cleanly. In order to accomplish this, the sound output of the speakers must be equal. If you listen to Saving Private Ryan on an unbalanced system, you hear noise all around you. If you listen on a balanced system, you can actually hear bullets whizzing past your head.

The DVD has a whole porttion devoted to speaker placement and stuff like that, too.

And the most important part: ask people. If I didn't check in here, I wouldn't have George yelling at me to get an extended warranty and it never would have crossed my mind. :)

---

Its a little early for me to think about dropping serious cash on a tv, but I know it will happen soon. I've also had friends who have worked at Bestbuy spout off their knowledge to me and it has peaked my interest. One of these days...

Quote:

---

You know, if you back the projecter up a bit, you can get that image bigger than 12 inches :smiley2:

---

silly me. 12'
Reminds me of my other saying. "what you measure your screen in inches... how cute!"

So I finally got to a point where I had made a decision (Samsung HL-S5087W), the price was in the right spot (and seems to have settled down), and I commit to buy on Monday...

Being a smaht consumer, I find a company out of Brooklyn, NY who has it in stock and can ship via ground service (UPS/DHL) in 1-2 days. With 2-3 days for delivery, I'm optimistic I can get the thing by Friday.

Yesterday evening I get a call from them; it's a salesman trying to sell me cables and such. When I finally get him off the phone, he mentions it's backordered, so it will be out in just a few days. Um, excuse me?

Furious, I call their customer service. Basically, the kid I'm talking to just keeps saying "DHL's policy on ground shipping is 7-10 days and I'll have it within 7-10 days". For some reason he can't seem to understand that they actually need to give it to DHL for that to be true...

It then occurs to me what their scheme is. They know full well it only takes 2-3 days to ship something out to RI. Their "ground shipping" is 7-10 days. So... They can sell the television I reserved and just give me one off the next truck. If they ship it 5 days after I order, it should be in the same window.

Fuck 'em. I cancel the order and order it from Amazon instead. I actually save a couple bucks, too, by using my amazon visa card.

Ten minutes later, some slimeball from their company calls me asking why I cancelled my order. For some reason I can't seem to explain that I do not enjoy being lied to. I bought something based on the knowledge that it was in stock and would ship within 2 days when it apparently was not. After yelling at him for 10 minutes it became painfully obvious that he was NOT going to offer me the world on a silver platter, so there was no point to continuing the conversation.

It just amazes me that a company would pull something like that and expect me to want to continue doing business with them. If they lied to me once, I really have no reason they wouldn't lie to me again. What next? The truck got a flat tire? The DHL guy didn't come that day? They can't ship on a full moon?

I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind calling me after I cancelled the order, either. I only answered because I figured they'd offer me free overnight shipping or something. Nope.

Oh man! I thought you were talking about me.

plasma for many reasons........I love my panasonic plasma 55 inch

What works best depends a LOT on your experience and tastes. I have a Brillian 65" 720p LCOS rear-projection set and I love it. Brillian was bought by Syntax (of Olevia LCD fame) and is now primarily sold under the Syntax label. You can also get LCOS technology from JVC, which they call D-ILA or HD-ILA. I would recommend going with their PROSUMER sets rather than the regular consumer models.

Regarding extended warranties - a recent article in Southwest Airlines in-plane magazine lambasted extended warranties. EXCEPT in the case of HDTVs and other pricey technology purchases.

If you're going to buy from a website, I'd suggest sticking with known, reputable sites. Brooklyn is famous for its thriving internet rip-off industry (hence the knickname Crooklyn), but they are popping up all over the country. In addition to Amazon, NewEgg, Buy, and other relatively trustworthy sites, you might want to check out TVauthority.com. They know the products they sell very well and will only suggest add-ons when appropriate. They will also discuss your needs via phone or their on-line chat service to help determine the best product and technology for your budget. And no, I don't work there. :smiley1:

Someone was asking about certifications and what not. I'm not a repair technician, but I am ICIA CTS certified, have received training from a few dozen manufacturers, and have designed hundreds of audiovisual systems for businesses and homes. If you have any questions, feel free to drop me an email - lungjian@hotmail.com . Mention that your a Cigarsmokers.com member and you can tap my brain for free. If you like my services, you can ship me a "thank you" stogie.