Thoughts on DLP...

[HarvInSTL]

Well, seeing as how your an expert on everything DLP/LCD projection based upon your own admissions, and you KNOW my brother in law is not qualified to judge because he PROBABLY doesn't hold an "authorised" cert from CEDIA, I'll defer this argument to you.

Please, everyone - harv's humble, but he's definitely the expert - he says so, even if he doesn't claim to be. Listen to his advice and please don't take "offence" to what he says... For 27 years old, he's pretty doggone smaht...

Well now it seems that you are the one taking "offence" to my posts.

I'm nowhere close to being a qualified DLP/LCD projector expert. All I was saying was that I'm not stupid when it comes to DLP/LCD projector repairs.

Based upon my own admission I'm an expert? I'm pretty sure I said quite the opposite in my last post.

Do I know that your brother in law is not qualified? I sure don't, hence the reason why I asked what certs and manufactors training he had recieved. Once again with you failing to provide this information I can only assume that he holds none of them.

As well I asked for your projector model and make information so I could review the specs. I don't know of any projectors in the $2500 range that can rival the 10000:1 contrast ratio that plasma's provide.

Am I humble? I sure am, if I'm wrong about something I'll own up to and by no means am I an expert in the field.

At 27 years old am I smart? Thats not for me to judge. But I can tell you I've met some people quite older than me and realized that wisdom doesn't always come with age.

Either way this has gotten way off topic. The OP wanted to know about DLP monitors, not DLP projectors. And I provided my input on the topic and the misinformation that was being spread in the topic.

So for my last post on this topic I'll address the OP's questions more directly.

I'm thinking about getting a DLP TV (probably a Samsung HL-S5087W or 56)...

Any thoughts on DLP monitors?

The S5087W is an amazing set. The updated DMD & color wheel are fantastic and it is honestly one of the only 50" DLP RP sets I'd recommend. But I'd check around locally and see who carrys it, and see if there is a restocking fee if you return it. Most sets in store aren't configured properly and will look alot different in your home and not under those huge bright store lights.

If their return policy is liberal pick a few sets you like and test them for a week each. Once you find one you like do some searching on avsforum and see what they have to say about that particular unit.

If you get a chance I'd pickup a calibration DVD from Avia or the likes. Your alternative is having someone ISF certified calibrate your tv and that won't be cheap.

That way you can get it home, calibrate it and see if you like it or not. If you don't you can return it with no repercussions.

Just a reminder, make sure you have their return policy in writing. I've returned a tv to Best Buy twice before I settled on my current TV and both times they tried to tell me there would be a 15% restocking fee. Yet the policy on the back of their reciepts makes no mention of a 15% restocking fee on tv's,etc. Only on computers,laptops, and the like.

I'll probably be switching over to Dish Network soon, as well My Cox SD signal is awful on my 32", I can't imagine what it would look like on a bigger TV. Dish is supposed to have the best clarity of any carrier. (plus I don't get Fox or CBS in HD; I need my HD football).

Even with Dishnetwork's 10 birds in the air the HD programming has all moved from MPEG2 to MPEG4. While DirecTV uses MPEG4 as well, the are currently dealing with a lawsuit in regards to them dropping the quality of their HD channels so that they save on bandwidth and offer more HD channels.

And Dish network is normally cheaper too!

DIRECTV Sued Over
HDTV Picture Quality

(really, I mostly want to play xbox 360 on a bigger screen )

Then make sure you get a 1080p set, MS is releasing a software update later this year that will allow 1080p output. Couple that with the estimated retail price of less than $200 for the HD-DVD addon this holiday season. And we have a winnar!

http://kotaku.com/gaming/x06/rumor-x...dup-203314.php

There are quite a few more posts on the HD-DVD addon annoucement on xbox-scene.com

[SuperChuck]

Sounds like the extended warranty would be a very good idea.
One of the places I was looking at this morning actually has a year extended in-home warranty w/annual cleaning for $300. I'll take that kind of insurance.

I'm not planning to buy anything until at least mid-October, when I'm going down to a friend's house (who happens to have a 50" samsung). By then, the prices will probably be so low I can get the TV + extended warranty for what I'd pay for the TV today...

[ggiese]

Sounds like the extended warranty would be a very good idea.
One of the places I was looking at this morning actually has a year extended in-home warranty w/annual cleaning for $300. I'll take that kind of insurance.

I'm not planning to buy anything until at least mid-October, when I'm going down to a friend's house (who happens to have a 50" samsung). By then, the prices will probably be so low I can get the TV + extended warranty for what I'd pay for the TV today...

Chuck,

My brother-in-law (he does know, despite harv's insistence he doesn't) says you're out of your mind if you do not purchase the extended warranty. He's seeing well over 50% of the new sets coming in for repairs. That's WAY up compared to the way it way it was years ago. Given the complexity of the new sets (DLP has lots of moving mirrors and have had problems), and that the repairs are much more costly than they used to be, the extra insurance is actually a wise investment.

I had a Sony projection TV. Thinking it was a great company and I shouldn't have to purchase an extended warranty, I did not. One of the guns failed - which meant I had to replace all three. The cost of repair would have been more than the set was worth - and rivaled what it cost me to replace it. Needless to say - I have an extended warranty on my new set...

[ggiese]

Well now it seems that you are the one taking "offence" to my posts.

I'm nowhere close to being a qualified DLP/LCD projector expert. All I was saying was that I'm not stupid when it comes to DLP/LCD projector repairs.

Based upon my own admission I'm an expert? I'm pretty sure I said quite the opposite in my last post.

Do I know that your brother in law is not qualified? I sure don't, hence the reason why I asked what certs and manufactors training he had recieved. Once again with you failing to provide this information I can only assume that he holds none of them.

As well I asked for your projector model and make information so I could review the specs. I don't know of any projectors in the $2500 range that can rival the 10000:1 contrast ratio that plasma's provide.

Am I humble? I sure am, if I'm wrong about something I'll own up to and by no means am I an expert in the field.

At 27 years old am I smart? Thats not for me to judge. But I can tell you I've met some people quite older than me and realized that wisdom doesn't always come with age.

Either way this has gotten way off topic. The OP wanted to know about DLP monitors, not DLP projectors. And I provided my input on the topic and the misinformation that was being spread in the topic.
So for my last post on this topic I'll address the OP's questions more directly.

Oh, you certainly are a smaht one... Excuse me while I clear up the mess you've created with your ego...

First of all, harv - your view of the world is not the world. Just because you believe it does, does not make it so. 27 years on the face of this earth obviously leaves you a tad light on experiences to draw on. Given your sharing your experiences with re-stocking fees at Best Buy, I'd say it fairly obvious you would not be satisfied with anything you purchase - despite the incredible wealth of knowledge you believe you possess... You're exactly the reason Best Buy charges a 15% restocking fee - you don't like the way the thing looks in the living room, it's a tad to dark, it's a tad too light, it doesn't do HDTV to an exacting standard - whatever - and you drop off a "used" set at Best Buy expecting a full 100% refund? Puhlease... I actually love your type... You're exactly the reason why I buy some of my electronics with an immediate 15% discount...

And yes - undeniably - there have been problems with the DLP's despite your denials. My LCD projector does have a very clear picture in a well lit, sunny room. It does have crisp colors, very black blacks - in other words - it does work extremely well despite your "clearing things up for us".

As far as my bro-in-law being certified... What - you want me to provide scans of his credentials??? That's as assinine as your moving parts in car comments. Given your obvious ego driven diatribe in this thread I'd say no matter what I told you, or what evidence I presented, it would not be nearly enough to overcome any "non-expert" opinion you may have...

Specs? You want specs? For what - so that you can do your "non-expert" expert review so you can clear up any misunderstandings?? Yeah - okay...

Wisdom does comes with age, harv - and you're obviously not quite there... Bottom line - don't be such a dick.


BTW - "manufactors(sic)" is spelled manufacturers

It's "i before e, except after c" - so "reciepts(sic)" is actually receipts

and "winnar!(sic)" is winner

[Cabaiguan Juan]

Ever since Baka and BPP have made peace, things were getting slow and boring. I'm glad that came to a halt.
But seriously, I've probably learned more about TV's in this post then all my trips to CC or Bestbuy.

[bard]

What kinds of problems is your b-n-l seeing? The only moving parts that I'm aware of is the color wheel and the 1-2 million mirrors (720p vs 1080p) that are located on the DLP chip itself in an area about the size of a postage stamp. There is absolutely nothing any technician could do for the DLP mirrors other than replace the entire chip or maybe clean the window on the surface of the chip that the light shines through. Any other mirrors or focus lenses should be set in a fixed position.

[SuperChuck]

What kinds of problems is your b-n-l seeing? The only moving parts that I'm aware of is the color wheel and the 1-2 million mirrors (720p vs 1080p) that are located on the DLP chip itself in an area about the size of a postage stamp. There is absolutely nothing any technician could do for the DLP mirrors other than replace the entire chip or maybe clean the window on the surface of the chip that the light shines through. Any other mirrors or focus lenses should be set in a fixed position.

That's actually EXACTLY what's prompting me to look into extended warranties: "replace the entire chip". If there was a disco ball in there and I could just glue broken mirrors back on, I'd consider it. But from what I understand, most of the system is on one chip.

I'm still not a fan of extended warranties, but it seems like the cost of repair and the possibility of defect outside of the manufacturer's warranty may warrant it. No pun intended. :)

[SuperChuck]

But seriously, I've probably learned more about TV's in this post then all my trips to CC or Bestbuy.

Best thing you can do looking at TVs is LOOK at TVs. When I look at TVs, I spend hours just wandering around Best Buys and Circuit Cities staring at TVs. Stare up close, stare far away. Try to forget your brand loyalties.

It also helps to think about what you really want. When I bought my current tube TV everyone wanted to know why I didn't get a "big screen". Because I wanted a flat screen and a wide viewing angle. At the time, that meant sacrificing size for image quality.

Harv mentioned it, I've mentioned it before as well, get the Avia Guide to Home Theater Setup. It's $40 on Amazon or you can get it for around $30 on eBay. If you have a surround system, you're gonna need a sound pressure meter from radio shack (slurge and get the digital one).

I tune my TV and surround every 6 months or so. The first time you do it, you will be completely blown away.

Televisions are factory tuned to look good in a brightly lit store. If they were tuned for your dimly lit living room, they would look too dim in the store and you wouldn't buy them.

And surround sound needs to be balanced in order to operate properly. Part of the power of surround sound is the ability to transfer a sound from one speaker to another cleanly. In order to accomplish this, the sound output of the speakers must be equal. If you listen to Saving Private Ryan on an unbalanced system, you hear noise all around you. If you listen on a balanced system, you can actually hear bullets whizzing past your head.

The DVD has a whole porttion devoted to speaker placement and stuff like that, too.

And the most important part: ask people. If I didn't check in here, I wouldn't have George yelling at me to get an extended warranty and it never would have crossed my mind. :)

[planenut]

I've got a Sharp 9000 Projector and love it.

PJ's aren't for everyone. I've got a 14 x 22 room painted burgandy but furnished with regular furniture (couch, recliner etc.). Dark paint and curtains to inhibit light is not for everyone.

That said I love my DLP projector on the 12" screen.

I've had it for 4 years and the only maintenance is replacing the bulb. I've replaced it once and am due another one now. They only last 2000 hours.

Hence my point. check out the bulb life if you are thinking DLP or a few other types of TV's to factor in bulb cost. Mine is around 419.00. It's like buying a normal size TV every couple years just for a bulb. Also, you won't want to leave it on for show while you go in and out or to entertain your dog while you are at work! You should see ESPNHD though!

[SuperChuck]

PJ's aren't for everyone. I've got a 14 x 22 room painted burgandy but furnished with regular furniture (couch, recliner etc.). Dark paint and curtains to inhibit light is not for everyone.

A buddy of mine painted the wall with the screen on it a couple shades darker than the other 3 walls. The result was incredibly subtle, but looked great.

[QUOTE]That said I love my DLP projector on the 12" screen. {/QUOTE}
You know, if you back the projecter up a bit, you can get that image bigger than 12 inches

Hence my point. check out the bulb life if you are thinking DLP or a few other types of TV's to factor in bulb cost. Mine is around 419.00. It's like buying a normal size TV every couple years just for a bulb. Also, you won't want to leave it on for show while you go in and out or to entertain your dog while you are at work! You should see ESPNHD though!

Bulb life and price... Most run around $200 or so and live for 3000-6000 hours. There are some new LED-based units coming out that claim 20,000 hours without a color wheel.

It's a little like buying a car. You have to take into account the price of gas, insurance, tires, oil, etc. If you do your homework you won't get surprised at that first $100 oil change.

[planenut]

You know, if you back the projecter up a bit, you can get that image bigger than 12 inches

silly me. 12'
Reminds me of my other saying. "what you measure your screen in inches... how cute!"

[SuperChuck]

So I finally got to a point where I had made a decision (Samsung HL-S5087W), the price was in the right spot (and seems to have settled down), and I commit to buy on Monday...

Being a smaht consumer, I find a company out of Brooklyn, NY who has it in stock and can ship via ground service (UPS/DHL) in 1-2 days. With 2-3 days for delivery, I'm optimistic I can get the thing by Friday.

Yesterday evening I get a call from them; it's a salesman trying to sell me cables and such. When I finally get him off the phone, he mentions it's backordered, so it will be out in just a few days. Um, excuse me?

Furious, I call their customer service. Basically, the kid I'm talking to just keeps saying "DHL's policy on ground shipping is 7-10 days and I'll have it within 7-10 days". For some reason he can't seem to understand that they actually need to give it to DHL for that to be true...

It then occurs to me what their scheme is. They know full well it only takes 2-3 days to ship something out to RI. Their "ground shipping" is 7-10 days. So... They can sell the television I reserved and just give me one off the next truck. If they ship it 5 days after I order, it should be in the same window.

Fuck 'em. I cancel the order and order it from Amazon instead. I actually save a couple bucks, too, by using my amazon visa card.

Ten minutes later, some slimeball from their company calls me asking why I cancelled my order. For some reason I can't seem to explain that I do not enjoy being lied to. I bought something based on the knowledge that it was in stock and would ship within 2 days when it apparently was not. After yelling at him for 10 minutes it became painfully obvious that he was NOT going to offer me the world on a silver platter, so there was no point to continuing the conversation.

It just amazes me that a company would pull something like that and expect me to want to continue doing business with them. If they lied to me once, I really have no reason they wouldn't lie to me again. What next? The truck got a flat tire? The DHL guy didn't come that day? They can't ship on a full moon?

I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind calling me after I cancelled the order, either. I only answered because I figured they'd offer me free overnight shipping or something. Nope.

[Cabaiguan Juan]

Best thing you can do looking at TVs is LOOK at TVs. When I look at TVs, I spend hours just wandering around Best Buys and Circuit Cities staring at TVs. Stare up close, stare far away. Try to forget your brand loyalties.

It also helps to think about what you really want. When I bought my current tube TV everyone wanted to know why I didn't get a "big screen". Because I wanted a flat screen and a wide viewing angle. At the time, that meant sacrificing size for image quality.

Harv mentioned it, I've mentioned it before as well, get the Avia Guide to Home Theater Setup. It's $40 on Amazon or you can get it for around $30 on eBay. If you have a surround system, you're gonna need a sound pressure meter from radio shack (slurge and get the digital one).

I tune my TV and surround every 6 months or so. The first time you do it, you will be completely blown away.

Televisions are factory tuned to look good in a brightly lit store. If they were tuned for your dimly lit living room, they would look too dim in the store and you wouldn't buy them.

And surround sound needs to be balanced in order to operate properly. Part of the power of surround sound is the ability to transfer a sound from one speaker to another cleanly. In order to accomplish this, the sound output of the speakers must be equal. If you listen to Saving Private Ryan on an unbalanced system, you hear noise all around you. If you listen on a balanced system, you can actually hear bullets whizzing past your head.

The DVD has a whole porttion devoted to speaker placement and stuff like that, too.

And the most important part: ask people. If I didn't check in here, I wouldn't have George yelling at me to get an extended warranty and it never would have crossed my mind. :)

Its a little early for me to think about dropping serious cash on a tv, but I know it will happen soon. I've also had friends who have worked at Bestbuy spout off their knowledge to me and it has peaked my interest. One of these days...