Aunthenticity Verification

[buzz]

From everything I've read, seen, and experienced true plume is a rare occurence, and forms due to the stability of the storage condidtions rather than some rapid or sudden drastic change in the cigars environment.

Long-term storage at stable temperature/humidity (70/70 +/-) - this is what I have heard from multiple sources.

A Google search for plume yielded this, it may be helpful:



-Buzz

[mail man]

Long-term storage at stable temperature/humidity (70/70 +/-) - this is what I have heard from multiple sources.

A Google search for plume yielded this, it may be helpful:



-Buzz

You really are not right Buzz.

[ashauler]

You really are not right Buzz.

Pot vs. Kettle?

[mail man]

Pot vs. Kettle?

Well, I never did claim that I was "in the zone".

[Chè]

Fair point ashauler. The source of the information was the Honk Kong author. And while there are many opinions on the guy, some of which I won't argue are without merit, that aside there have been two occasions that stand out where I've witnessed plume form unexpectedly out of the blue. Both those occasions involved cooling - 1 on my own behalf / purposely, the other nature and the weather (from house & storage to destination that was approximately 30 degrees cooler than home). The "nature" occasion was with-in a 1 hour period, a cigar that had no plume was pulled out and to my surprise showed 7 -10 crystals up & down the wrapper.

In retrospect, of all you've heard over the years, I'm curious, beyond the opinions of it being perfect or extremely stable storage conditions yaddy yaddy yah, what exactly has been the explanation of what plume (the actual substance) is?

Another thing & JMHO... My experience is, it's mythical that plume represents some huge gain in strength, flavor or any other immediately discernible enhancement.

If the good Dr.'s theory is correct (about oil + moisture) and the phenomenon in general, you're probably looking at a cigar with significant oils present to begin with. Perhaps that's the explanation of the psychological belief that a pluming cigar is the Holy Grail?

[ashauler]

Fair point ashauler. The source of the information was the Honk Kong author. And while there are many opinions on the guy, some of which I won't argue are without merit, that aside there have been two occasions that stand out where I've witnessed plume form unexpectedly out of the blue. Both those occasions involved cooling - 1 on my own behalf / purposely, the other nature and the weather (from house & storage to destination that was approximately 30 degrees cooler than home). The "nature" occasion was with-in a 1 hour period, a cigar that had no plume was pulled out and to my surprise showed 7 -10 crystals up & down the wrapper.

Very interesting. Agreed on the varying opinions of the "all things cuban" dude and I'll not argue either side.

I will say that it get's pretty cold where I live, and I have taken many cigars on jaunts where the cigars in my possession experience large swings in temperature from their storage environment to their smoking environment.....and I have never seen this. Not saying it didn't happen, my experience just doesn't match yours.

A question I would have is, if the cause of plume is the rapid change in temperature of a cigar from it's storage environment to it's smoking environment, why is it so rarely observed? Certainly the situation you describe as creating the plume happens much more frequently than "perfect and stable" storage conditions.

In retrospect, of all you've heard over the years, I'm curious, beyond the opinions of it being perfect or extremely stable storage conditions yaddy yaddy yah, what exactly has been the explanation of what plume (the actual substance) is?

I believe plume to indeed be crystallized oil that has "oozed" to the surface of the wrapper.

Another thing & JMHO... My experience is, it's mythical that plume represents some huge gain in strength, flavor or any other immediately discernible enhancement.

I concur with this, however, due to my understanding of the yaddy yaddy yah, plume is indeed evidence of proper storage of the cigar over time. I further believe this "time" to be an extended period of time.

If the good Dr.'s theory is correct (about oil + moisture) and the phenomenon in general, you're probably looking at a cigar with significant oils present to begin with. Perhaps that's the explanation of the psychological belief that a pluming cigar is the Holy Grail?

I have not held this belief for quite some time now.

[Chè]

I will say that it get's pretty cold where I live, and I have taken many cigars on jaunts where the cigars in my possession experience large swings in temperature from their storage environment to their smoking environment.....and I have never seen this. Not saying it didn't happen, my experience just doesn't match yours.

I don't believe the phenomenon occurs simply based on "cold". It's a combination of the right scenario / conditions - which NO, I don't have the exact formula or I'd be on an infomercial demonstrating rather than wasting your time here lol.

As an example, the experience I had where I manufactured the cooling process (because of an extended period of heat during one summer), in that example, cigars in I believe it was 3 boxes formed plume. In each of the boxes I noticed, only a couple of cigars with-in the said boxes had it - the rest didn't and of what I went through (probably 15 or so other boxes) none showed plume.

Again, I'll reiterate I'm NO EXPERT or authority on the subject. In offering my own opinion, my conclusion in many ways agrees with yours: The formation appears to be a combination of factors that don't happen or at least aren't noticed / witnessed very often. That in itself is the most plausible explanation - regardless of what is believed to transpire (beyond the rareness of the occurrences).

A question I would have is, if the cause of plume is the rapid change in temperature of a cigar from it's storage environment to it's smoking environment, why is it so rarely observed? Certainly the situation you describe as creating the plume happens much more frequently than "perfect and stable" storage conditions.

See my drivel above as far as my thoughts on the rareness.

I'd add that if we agree it's probably trapped oil, a cigar that has been poorly kept over years probably would be DEAD and less likely to have an abundance of oil / moisture playing on its surface. No? Still my own thoughts, but it seems likely that the proper / adequate storage conditions are a given component in the equation. Would you disagree?

I believe plume to indeed be crystallized oil that has "oozed" to the surface of the wrapper.

If you don't mind I now have a couple of questions:

*Does the crystallization occur before the oozing or after?

*If before, would crystals not damage / puncture the wrapper surface when they oozed through?

*Can you or any of the sources you've scoured describe what in the perfect long term storage conditions causes the oil to either crystallize and get through the wrapper (OR) as oil seep through the wrapper and then crystallize on the surface?

Point being like something more than simply flash cooling must be at work, can't we conclude there are plenty of very well kept cigars over long hauls that never develop plume... or should we say never are observed to have? Using the logic you provided, hasn't there got to be something in addition to consistent, optimal storage? Or shouldn't the observation be made with more "well kept" cigars?

I concur with this, however, due to my understanding of the yaddy yaddy yah, plume is indeed evidence of proper storage of the cigar over time. I further believe this "time" to be an extended period of time.

Again no argument that proper storage is likely a prerequisite.

To offer another angle, if we agree that proper storage is a given, would you rule out or ignore that the "longer" / consistent the proper storage occurs, the more time & opportunities exists to examine the phenomenon occur with a cigar or group of? I.E. does a person in poor health (poor storage) that only lives 15 years have a better chance of witnessing a comet than a healthy person (optimal storage) that lives 95 years?

These are just my thoughts. Don't take em' as gospel. I enjoy hearing other theories, explanations or just plain thoughts from any / everyone who has a take. So please fire away.

[badwhale]

holy shit.

[ashauler]

I don't believe the phenomenon occurs simply based on "cold". It's a combination of the right scenario / conditions - which NO, I don't have the exact formula or I'd be on an infomercial demonstrating rather than wasting your time here lol.

As an example, the experience I had where I manufactured the cooling process (because of an extended period of heat during one summer), in that example, cigars in I believe it was 3 boxes formed plume. In each of the boxes I noticed, only a couple of cigars with-in the said boxes had it - the rest didn't and of what I went through (probably 15 or so other boxes) none showed plume.

Again, I'll reiterate I'm NO EXPERT or authority on the subject. In offering my own opinion, my conclusion in many ways agrees with yours: The formation appears to be a combination of factors that don't happen or at least aren't noticed / witnessed very often. That in itself is the most plausible explanation - regardless of what is believed to transpire (beyond the rareness of the occurrences).

See my drivel above as far as my thoughts on the rareness.

I'd add that if we agree it's probably trapped oil, a cigar that has been poorly kept over years probably would be DEAD and less likely to have an abundance of oil / moisture playing on its surface. No? Still my own thoughts, but it seems likely that the proper / adequate storage conditions are a given component in the equation. Would you disagree?

If you don't mind I now have a couple of questions:

*Does the crystallization occur before the oozing or after?

*If before, would crystals not damage / puncture the wrapper surface when they oozed through?

*Can you or any of the sources you've scoured describe what in the perfect long term storage conditions causes the oil to either crystallize and get through the wrapper (OR) as oil seep through the wrapper and then crystallize on the surface?

Point being like something more than simply flash cooling must be at work, can't we conclude there are plenty of very well kept cigars over long hauls that never develop plume... or should we say never are observed to have? Using the logic you provided, hasn't there got to be something in addition to consistent, optimal storage? Or shouldn't the observation be made with more "well kept" cigars?


Again no argument that proper storage is likely a prerequisite.

To offer another angle, if we agree that proper storage is a given, would you rule out or ignore that the "longer" / consistent the proper storage occurs, the more time & opportunities exists to examine the phenomenon occur with a cigar or group of? I.E. does a person in poor health (poor storage) that only lives 15 years have a better chance of witnessing a comet than a healthy person (optimal storage) that lives 95 years?

These are just my thoughts. Don't take em' as gospel. I enjoy hearing other theories, explanations or just plain thoughts from any / everyone who has a take. So please fire away.

O.K., I read all this. Ooze before crystallization. No damage, just as the moisture that penetrates the cigar in my humidor doesn't damage the wrapper.

The rest, well, frankly I just don't have the energy.