Good cigar brands? Good small cigars?

**ggiese** · 11-08-2010, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Xavier

They seem to be a little too novelty to me. Well, at least the ones I have seen at my tobacconist. And one of the employees there said they were a bit of a roulette game on quality. Not that you never know if each still will smoke as good as the last, but on the quality of each line.

Davidoff, Artuo Fuente, Avo, My Father all of those, you know its one of theirs, no matter which line you're trying.

White Owls (especially the Grape and Peach), Backwoods Smokes, and A&C Grenadiers all smoke consistently.

**ashauler** · 11-08-2010, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

Davidoff, Artuo Fuente, Avo, My Father all of those, you know its one of theirs, no matter which line you're trying.

Um, what?

**Xavier** · 11-08-2010, 01:06 PM

Not all cigar companies own their own fields, so they have to buy it from whomever they can. As a result, one year their cigars can be really good, another year just okay, and another it can suck. It's innoconsistent. The brands I listed all own their own fields, allowing them to have a consistent product.

**ashauler** · 11-08-2010, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

Not all cigar companies own their own fields, so they have to buy it from whomever they can. As a result, one year their cigars can be really good, another year just okay, and another it can suck. It's innoconsistent. The brands I listed all own their own fields, allowing them to have a consistent product.

So, you're saying that every crop grown by these guys is "top-notch" and equal in quality?

**Xavier** · 11-08-2010, 01:43 PM

"Top-notch" is subjective, but I will say that these guys own their own fields (to my knowledge) and their product is supposed to be of consistent quality.

**ashauler** · 11-08-2010, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

"Top-notch" is subjective, but I will say that these guys own their own fields (to my knowledge) and their product is supposed to be of consistent quality.

Here, let me phrase my question differently:
Growing your own tobacco is a guarantee of quality?

**Xavier** · 11-08-2010, 02:04 PM

If you have mastered the craft, sure, why not?

**ashauler** · 11-08-2010, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

If you have mastered the craft, sure, why not?

Man, your ignorance is amazing. What about guys that grow and process tobacco, but don't roll their own lines of cigars? Could they have mastered that craft? Or, what about guys that roll their own cigars, but purchase their tobacco from these growers? Could they have mastered the craft of selecting tobacco? Are growers or manufactures responsible for the quality of the cigars produced?

Oh, and while we're at it, what "qualities" are we talking about? Better not be those subjective ones like "flavor" or "profile".........

**Xavier** · 11-08-2010, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by ashauler

Man, your ignorance is amazing. What about guys that grow and process tobacco, but don't roll their own lines of cigars? Could they have mastered that craft? Or, what about guys that roll their own cigars, but purchase their tobacco from these growers? Could they have mastered the craft of selecting tobacco? Are growers or manufactures responsible for the quality of the cigars produced?

Oh, and while we're at it, what "qualities" are we talking about? Better not be those subjective ones like "flavor" or "profile".........

All I know is, there are some brands that will put out a line of cigars under the name "x" and it will be a great smoke one year. Then the next year, that same brand and that same line may not be as good. That's because they do not own their own fields.

Yes, there's more to the process than just growing the tobacco and/or purchasing it. You have to age it, roll it, and process the whole thing. There are tons of aspects in the whole business, but one of those is an inconsistency as a result of getting different tobacco from different places, as opposed to brands that own their own fields and have their own ways of doing things, like Davidoff (and family), Garcia & Garcia, and Artuo Fuente.

**badwhale** · 11-08-2010, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

All I know is, there are some brands that will put out a line of cigars under the name "x" and it will be a great smoke one year. Then the next year, that same brand and that same line may not be as good. That's because they do not own their own fields.

Yes, there's more to the process than just growing the tobacco and/or purchasing it. You have to age it, roll it, and process the whole thing. There are tons of aspects in the whole business, but one of those is an inconsistency as a result of getting different tobacco from different places, as opposed to brands that own their own fields and have their own ways of doing things, like Davidoff (and family), Garcia & Garcia, and Artuo Fuente.

Better listen up ash, you're gettin' schooled on growin' tobaccy!

Xavier,

How the hell do you come up with this stuff. You've said since yesterday that you've only smoked 30 or so cigars. How do you even know what you're saying about smoke "x" to be true?

Could it be possible that some companies use a better quality tobacco for the OR, and then switch some something lesser once they know people like it?

Could it be possible that certain lines get bought out by another retailer and the blend gets fucked with?

Listen, better than trying to have the last word in every thread, why don't you try taking hefty's advice and read through the boards, learn, smoke some cigars, listen, chime in occasionally. In other words, stop trying to be johnny tuffnuts who's going to take on this whole board. Trust me, you're not going to win.

Will

**heftysmokes** · 11-08-2010, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

All I know is, there are some brands that will put out a line of cigars under the name "x" and it will be a great smoke one year. Then the next year, that same brand and that same line may not be as good.

How, with your limited experience, do you know this? Not trying to be a dick, just wondering where you came up with this conclusion. Have you smoked multiple production years of the same brand/line of cigars?

**Xavier** · 11-08-2010, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by heftysmokes

How, with your limited experience, do you know this? Not trying to be a dick, just wondering where you came up with this conclusion. Have you smoked multiple production years of the same brand/line of cigars?

My tobacconist has been smoking stogies since before the embargo. Well, one of them. The others that are there are in my Generation. (generation Y, and a few are Generation X)

That and I have read up on a few things.

**TachyCoventry** · 11-08-2010, 03:32 PM

Please listen to everyone's advice. Stop posting for a little while and read. It will be better off for you in the long run. Trust me. I'm not trying to be a dick, I am just trying to help you out.

**badwhale** · 11-08-2010, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Daigz

Please listen to everyone's advice. Stop posting for a little while and read. It will be better off for you in the long run. Trust me. I'm not trying to be a dick, I am just trying to help you out.

Look at that Xavier! Even the peanut gallery understands your situation!

**ashauler** · 11-08-2010, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

My tobacconist has been smoking stogies since before the embargo. Well, one of them. The others that are there are in my Generation. (generation Y, and a few are Generation X)

That and I have read up on a few things.

Which embargo did he start smoking after?

So, to paraphrase your above post:
"I know virtually nothing about cigars that isn't based on the views and or experiences of someone else. These opinions, without any independent verification on my part, are believed by me to be the gospel. Oh, and I read alot of this on the internet, so it must be true too."

Listen, in all honesty, everyone has been very nice and tolerant.....even patient, with you. Your act is starting to wear very thin and I suspect that the kindness and patience won't last much longer.

If you're looking for a board where you can post as often as you want, and make as little sense as you dare, head on over to puff.com. Honestly, I think it would be a much nicer fit for you.

**heftysmokes** · 11-08-2010, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

My tobacconist has been smoking stogies since before the embargo. Well, one of them. The others that are there are in my Generation. (generation Y, and a few are Generation X)

That and I have read up on a few things.

I see. Did your tobacconist also mention brands being sold to competition? Or contracted by a big distributor (read:CI)?
For instance, if a company is bopping along making X amount of fantastic cigars doesn't it stand to reason the quality may go down when they're asked to make x*50 to fill a large contract? They still may be using only their own tobacco, but it's quite possible they're using leaf to fill their order they may have in the past, deemed unsuitable.
I'm sure your old cigar smoking guru is a wealth of knowledge, and you're lucky to have someone there to learn from. All I'm saying is, don't come around typing "this is fact" without considering the fact that you may not have all the background to make an informed statement.

**mrtr33** · 11-08-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Xavier

That and I have read up on a few things.

Could it be possible that you're completely full of shit?

**ashauler** · 11-08-2010, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by badwhale

Better listen up ash, you're gettin' schooled on growin' tobaccy!

snip

Thank goodness, just in time too.

Hey Xavier,
What soil PH should I shoot for if I want to grow some excellent, high quality tobacco next spring?

**mrtr33** · 11-08-2010, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by ashauler

Thank goodness, just in time too.

Hey Xavier,
What soil PH should I shoot for if I want to grow some excellent, high quality tobacco next spring?

You can grow tobacco in your own back yard? Isn't that illegal or something? I wonder if anyone here has ever tried doing anything like that.....

**ggiese** · 11-09-2010, 11:28 AM

saviour clearly believes everything he reads and/or hears, regardless of its source as long as it's some form of data. While his personal knowledge might be limited, he has heard or seen enough information from "experts" (using the term loosely) to form a conclusion which has some form of basis in "logic". And while the logic might be flawed - it is, in fact, some form of logic.

savioiur's been given all kinds of hints, advice, kicks in the butt, etc. about his faux pas' and social misgivings. By saviour's own words - he's trying to find his "place" and he's rapidly finding that "place" he feels comfortable, despite our community's best efforts!

In other words (for those that "habla") - saviour doesn't "get it", and is not likely to "get it" any time soon.