Back to work

[Shelby07]

I'm back!

What a great and strange experience. A 3 week trip turned into 10+ weeks, and if Pauline didn't have a prior commitment to take some friends to Ireland at the end of this month, I'd still be there.

I am working in a town which is about 200 km to the northeast of Delhi. It is 7 hours away by car or train. Anyone who has been to Delhi, Mumbai, Agra or any other business or tourist area in India can not imagine what the culture in the village areas is like or how it affects your definition of what is "normal." The area I was in is very primitive compared to what we are used to in the US, but the people there are extremely resourceful. Being in a car is just plain scary at first, but after a while you get used to it. They are supposed to drive on the left side of the road, but that is more of a guideline than a rule. People do whatever they need to do in order to get around the bicycles, motorbikes, oxcarts, oxen, cows, monkeys, dogs, rickshaws. other cars, trucks and buses that crowd the roads. The culture and the many religions and casts were puzzling to me as I have never been exposed to anything like it. Stories in the newspapers include things like people being trampled in the sugarcane fields by elephants or being attacked by big cats and monkeys. These are almost weekly occurrences there. After a while, you are just not surprised by anything you see and your mind gets to the point where it accepts just about anything as ordinary.

I got back on Thursday afternoon. The entire trip to Denver took 35 hours, with 18 of them in the air, 7 in a car and the rest of the time waiting. It is very hard to explain, but I am finding that my mind is still being influenced by the culture there. It will take some time to decompress and get back to normal (whatever normal is.)

All in all, it was a very interesting experience and strange as it may sound, I am somewhat anxious to get back. The work is interesting and challenging, as is the local culture and people.

[craig]

You're alive!

Sounds like the India that I've been told about.

Never been myself, but many of my now-retired co-workers were from there. (Indians are big on statistics.)

One of the wonders of the modern age is that it is only 35 hours from rural India to urban Colorado. 3.5 months is probably a more comfortable journey length for the human mind.

Glad to hear that you survived the roads!

[cigarsarge]

Sounds like you are having the experence of a life time...

[ashauler]

Welcome back.

[ggiese]

Our company has a fair piece of operations in Mumbai, Gurgaon and Delhi (as well as other cities in India) I have been threatened on several occasions that I'm going - I've managed to dodge the bullet each time. A number of my coworkers have gone and returned with stories similar to yours, Mark.

While I'm avoiding the trip at all costs (primarily because 17 hours of traveling will totally screw up my work), I am very curious. I routinely interact with our partners in India - and am fascinated by their mindset. Is is clearly different than ours.

Good on you!!!

[logan37]

Welcome back Shelby. Happy to hear you had a nice experience.

[Shelby07]

Our company has a fair piece of operations in Mumbai, Gurgaon and Delhi (as well as other cities in India) I have been threatened on several occasions that I'm going - I've managed to dodge the bullet each time. A number of my coworkers have gone and returned with stories similar to yours, Mark.

While I'm avoiding the trip at all costs (primarily because 17 hours of traveling will totally screw up my work), I am very curious. I routinely interact with our partners in India - and am fascinated by their mindset. Is is clearly different than ours.

Good on you!!!

George,

I'd encourage you to take the trip, but be prepared for a totally different reality. Delhi, Mumbai and Gurgaon will be easy to work in, but outside the business centers things are very strange for us. Aside from the obvious stuff mentioned above, the people and the culture are very different. Everything in India is based on making deals, and the ability to position ones self and negotiate is a part of their mindset. Hence, you will never get the full story unless you dig for it, and you'd better be good at it. Never assume anything as you will be wrong 100% of the time. They don't lie, they just don't tell the whole truth, or they bend the truth when convenient. The people verbally fight among themselves, but will rarely do harm to each other (unless you are talking about some of the more extremist groups like the Naxalites or the Docoids (sp?) who are usually not found in the more generally visited areas.) There are several religions, and each person is rooted deeply in their own. The most common language is Hindi, but there are 15 different languages spoken in the country, depending on the area you are in. Just about everyone in the business world speaks English, but be prepared for some very strange sentence structures. The states in India are much more like separate countries. Goods shipped from state to state are required to go through a sort of customs, paperwork is necessary and taxes must be paid. Police walk around with AK-47's and private security guards armed with shotguns sit outside banks and jewelry stores. The dowry system is alive and well, but not talked about to foreigners very much. Honor killings are common and many people defend them. Villagers tend to defend their men no matter what the crime. The government is extremely corrupt and anything can be bought for a price. The cities are very dirty as compared with ours, safety standards are very low and building standards are non existent. They think of George Bush as the devil but they like Americans in general. As a white American male, respect is given, whether it is deserved or not. Yet in spite of all of these things the culture works and people live their lives in a fairly normal way. The first couple of weeks there is an American tendency to think that if they could only be shown the American way (i.e., the "right" way) everything would be better, but of course that isn't the case. Their religion and culture is ingrained in them, and they have had life experiences that we can not imagine.

Sorry for the rambling... I'm doing more of a brain dump here. My mind is still in a transition phase.

EDIT: By the way, I am not knocking or belittling the Indian people. The question was about their mindset. The things I mentioned above are some of the things you need to understand before you can start to understand the culture. The Indian people are really quite friendly and interesting.

[basil]

Awesome Mark! I'd go at the drop of a hat! Good to hear from you.

[mrtr33]

They think of George Bush as the devil but they like Americans in general. As a white American male, respect is given, whether it is deserved or not.

I was in Doha, Qatar, about a year ago. I noticed the same thing, not so much amongst the Qatarians (?), but amongst the African and Indian peoples. They would generally ignore you, unless you made the effort to acknowledge them in any way. I was told by other Americans that there is a tremendous amount of racism practiced there, where lighter-skinned people were assumed to be of higher social class (which I found amusing, as at the time, I didn't have a dime to my name).

In short, I would live overseas (for probably a set length of time, say 3-5 years) at the drop of the hat, if conditions were reasonably acceptable. Good for you.

[ggiese]

George,

I'd encourage you to take the trip, but be prepared for a totally different reality. Delhi, Mumbai and Gurgaon will be easy to work in, but outside the business centers things are very strange for us. Aside from the obvious stuff mentioned above, the people and the culture are very different. Everything in India is based on making deals, and the ability to position ones self and negotiate is a part of their mindset. Hence, you will never get the full story unless you dig for it, and you'd better be good at it. Never assume anything as you will be wrong 100% of the time. They don't lie, they just don't tell the whole truth, or they bend the truth when convenient. The people verbally fight among themselves, but will rarely do harm to each other (unless you are talking about some of the more extremist groups like the Naxalites or the Docoids (sp?) who are usually not found in the more generally visited areas.) There are several religions, and each person is rooted deeply in their own. The most common language is Hindi, but there are 15 different languages spoken in the country, depending on the area you are in. Just about everyone in the business world speaks English, but be prepared for some very strange sentence structures. The states in India are much more like separate countries. Goods shipped from state to state are required to go through a sort of customs, paperwork is necessary and taxes must be paid. Police walk around with AK-47's and private security guards armed with shotguns sit outside banks and jewelry stores. The dowry system is alive and well, but not talked about to foreigners very much. Honor killings are common and many people defend them. Villagers tend to defend their men no matter what the crime. The government is extremely corrupt and anything can be bought for a price. The cities are very dirty as compared with ours, safety standards are very low and building standards are non existent. They think of George Bush as the devil but they like Americans in general. As a white American male, respect is given, whether it is deserved or not. Yet in spite of all of these things the culture works and people live their lives in a fairly normal way. The first couple of weeks there is an American tendency to think that if they could only be shown the American way (i.e., the "right" way) everything would be better, but of course that isn't the case. Their religion and culture is ingrained in them, and they have had life experiences that we can not imagine.

Sorry for the rambling... I'm doing more of a brain dump here. My mind is still in a transition phase.

EDIT: By the way, I am not knocking or belittling the Indian people. The question was about their mindset. The things I mentioned above are some of the things you need to understand before you can start to understand the culture. The Indian people are really quite friendly and interesting.

I see quite a bit of what you say in the dealings I have with our employees in APAC. I have found the Indians to be VERY friendly and fiercely proud. I do not believe they generally lie - however, they will carefully choose their answers. When challenged, there seems to be a feeling that you are disappointed in their performance - and they do not take disappointment in any form very well at all. They definitely are very linear thinkers - and have difficulty sorting out multiple paths from the same issue. I've had them totally shut down when offered more than a couple of choices for resolution.

Our priorities are not their priorities. And they handle priority entirely different than we do (there does not seem to be the pressure to get things done like we view getting things done). Not that the Indians are lazy - they are very task focused and work very hard.

Most of the Indians I deal with are extremely bright, but you really have to dig to extract their opinions (if they're not used to American culture). It's as if they are giving up a piece of themselves in expressing their ideas. Once they know you appreciate their view - it can be difficult to harness their enthusiasm.

I've found it very difficult to understand their accent when you first hear it - but I've found that with time it becomes much easier to understand - though I'm still struggling with conference calls when one (or more) Indians are using a speaker phone when an echo is present.

I look forward to going - and I know it is inevitable (so I'm told). The only reservation I have is I hating devote the better part of a day getting there - and the better part of a day in getting back...