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Thread: Cigars made in America

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmost View Post
    JC Newman machine rolls their "Factory Throwouts" in Miami from tobacco left over from their Latin American hand rolling factories. Same ingredients, just not whole leaves. If you can get past the "throwouts" name, they are some tasty smokes. Twenty three bucks gets you a bundle of twenty.

    The question is: What are you really after? Good smoke or a decadent experience? It's like pups -- Do you need to impress yourself with the pedigree and price of your pampered pug, or are you content with a boon flop eared companion? When I was a kid, we got our pups from a neighbor, sired by a fence jumper. Only papers they ever had were newspapers over the snout to house train them. Loved them all the same. Got some darn good dogs that way. Old Duke could share my ice cream any day. More money does not always equal more better. You need to uncouple price from pleasure.

    Yes, even among the imported hand rolled premiums. The cigars I buy by the box to always keep stocked in my humidor include the Ave Maria (Crusader), the Torano 1916 Cameroon, and the Fonseca Arana. The Fonseca runs a mere $35 a bundle of 20, but is in no way an inferior smoke to the other two, which run a buck twenty a box.
    P
    But we're getting off track. We are talking about American cigars here. What with OSHA, minimum wage, cost of living, overtime, health insurance, and all the rest, I don't see how you going to get a hand rolled pampered twelve buck gem. But you can get a darn good smoke made by machine. And you will pay less.

    Fancy bands are nice. But they don't smoke worth a damn.
    I'm on my phone and have fat fingers, so I'll just say you were doing well until the condescension took over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmost View Post
    JC Newman machine rolls their "Factory Throwouts" in Miami from tobacco left over from their Latin American hand rolling factories. Same ingredients, just not whole leaves. If you can get past the "throwouts" name, they are some tasty smokes. Twenty three bucks gets you a bundle of twenty.

    The question is: What are you really after? Good smoke or a decadent experience? It's like pups -- Do you need to impress yourself with the pedigree and price of your pampered pug, or are you content with a boon flop eared companion? When I was a kid, we got our pups from a neighbor, sired by a fence jumper. Only papers they ever had were newspapers over the snout to house train them. Loved them all the same. Got some darn good dogs that way. Old Duke could share my ice cream any day. More money does not always equal more better. You need to uncouple price from pleasure.

    Yes, even among the imported hand rolled premiums. The cigars I buy by the box to always keep stocked in my humidor include the Ave Maria (Crusader), the Torano 1916 Cameroon, and the Fonseca Arana. The Fonseca runs a mere $35 a bundle of 20, but is in no way an inferior smoke to the other two, which run a buck twenty a box.

    But we're getting off track. We are talking about American cigars here. What with OSHA, minimum wage, cost of living, overtime, health insurance, and all the rest, I don't see how you going to get a hand rolled pampered twelve buck gem. But you can get a darn good smoke made by machine. And you will pay less.

    Fancy bands are nice. But they don't smoke worth a damn.
    I have to disagree at least with the bolded statement.
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  3. #43

    Default Panacea

    Hey this interesting angle slipped my mind before: The guys at Flatbed Cigars have partnered up with a fellow in Richmond Virginia area who has organized what is called the Virginia Wine and Cigar Trail. Look it up on line if you live in VA. It's a series of wineries where he has left a selection of Panacea cigars, each variety of cigar paired with a certain wine from there. So you go to the winery, score a bottle and a stick, sit at a piazza table overlooking a sunny vineyard, smoke, and drink. What a great idea. Vineyards often have live music on a weekend to boot.

    The same guy also tours from one street fair to another selling his cigars. We ran into him at Rock Hall Merryland. The air was redolent, so we followed our noses, and there was his booth. Does one heck of a land office business that way too.

    These are all rolled overseas. But as I say, the Green Label is PA Broadleaf, and tastes it. Interesting marketting idea, eh?
    Unmitigated risk aversion is the new Puritanism; complete with witch hunts funny outfits and humorless preachers thundering doom. The Deity is Safety; Satan is a Lawyer; but the object is the same: to suck the life out of life and tell you how to live it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmost View Post
    JC Newman machine rolls their "Factory Throwouts" in Miami from tobacco left over from their Latin American hand rolling factories. Same ingredients, just not whole leaves. If you can get past the "throwouts" name, they are some tasty smokes. Twenty three bucks gets you a bundle of twenty.

    The question is: What are you really after? Good smoke or a decadent experience? It's like pups -- Do you need to impress yourself with the pedigree and price of your pampered pug, or are you content with a boon flop eared companion? When I was a kid, we got our pups from a neighbor, sired by a fence jumper. Only papers they ever had were newspapers over the snout to house train them. Loved them all the same. Got some darn good dogs that way. Old Duke could share my ice cream any day. More money does not always equal more better. You need to uncouple price from pleasure.

    Yes, even among the imported hand rolled premiums. The cigars I buy by the box to always keep stocked in my humidor include the Ave Maria (Crusader), the Torano 1916 Cameroon, and the Fonseca Arana. The Fonseca runs a mere $35 a bundle of 20, but is in no way an inferior smoke to the other two, which run a buck twenty a box.

    But we're getting off track. We are talking about American cigars here. What with OSHA, minimum wage, cost of living, overtime, health insurance, and all the rest, I don't see how you going to get a hand rolled pampered twelve buck gem. But you can get a darn good smoke made by machine. And you will pay less.

    Fancy bands are nice. But they don't smoke worth a damn.
    Are you saying that people are unnecessarily paying a premium for a "fancy band" cigar?

    If I want a car - the paper is full of 'em. If I want a dog - the local shelter is full of 'em. If I want a cigar - my shop is full of 'em. Wine that comes in a box tastes like wine and will get you as drunk as those fancy-scmancy $200 a bottle wines. Does that necessarily mean one car is not better than another if both drive straight and true? Ford is the same as Lamborgini? Timex is the same as Rolex?

    I investigated a complaint from a guy who bought a diamond ring from eBay. The seller advertised a 1 carat diamond well below normal retail for a 1 carat diamond. When the buyer received it, he was completely displeased the diamond was full of inclusions and fractures - it looked like "frozen spit". He thought he was being "ripped off". The diamond was truly worth the advertised price - and it was a legitimate diamond. Following your logic - what would be the problem, right?

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    Factory throwouts are fucking vile shitsticks,Ive smoked a few and they taste like smoking wrapping paper or a Carlton 120
    The older I get ,the better I was

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin7 View Post
    Factory throwouts are fucking vile shitsticks,Ive smoked a few and they taste like smoking wrapping paper or a Carlton 120
    Exactly my point, Kevin. If your purpose in smoking a cigar is to generate smoke - what difference does it make what the hell is inside that cigar. It might as well be straw, right?

    I can see someone making an "intelligent" argument that machine made cigars "smoke" just like a premium made hand made cigar. However, there can be no intelligent argument that the experience is the same...

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmost View Post
    Hey this interesting angle slipped my mind before: The guys at Flatbed Cigars have partnered up with a fellow in Richmond Virginia area who has organized what is called the Virginia Wine and Cigar Trail. Look it up on line if you live in VA. It's a series of wineries where he has left a selection of Panacea cigars, each variety of cigar paired with a certain wine from there. So you go to the winery, score a bottle and a stick, sit at a piazza table overlooking a sunny vineyard, smoke, and drink. What a great idea. Vineyards often have live music on a weekend to boot.

    The same guy also tours from one street fair to another selling his cigars. We ran into him at Rock Hall Merryland. The air was redolent, so we followed our noses, and there was his booth. Does one heck of a land office business that way too.

    These are all rolled overseas. But as I say, the Green Label is PA Broadleaf, and tastes it. Interesting marketting idea, eh?
    Interesting? Uhhh.... Let's' just say it's hardly unique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggiese View Post
    Exactly my point, Kevin. If your purpose in smoking a cigar is to generate smoke - what difference does it make what the hell is inside that cigar. It might as well be straw, right?

    I can see someone making an "intelligent" argument that machine made cigars "smoke" just like a premium made hand made cigar. However, there can be no intelligent argument that the experience is the same...
    A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I was a Boy Scout. We tried rolling up plain old oak leaves by the fire, and trying to smoke them. I also remember distinctly trying to roll - roll your own tobacco in plain paper and trying to smoke it.

    Ah, those days are long past.
    The powers that be might take it all away
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    Quote Originally Posted by badwhale View Post
    A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I was a Boy Scout. We tried rolling up plain old oak leaves by the fire, and trying to smoke them. I also remember distinctly trying to roll - roll your own tobacco in plain paper and trying to smoke it.

    Ah, those days are long past.
    My cousin and I actually smoked a spent firecracker pre teen and apparently pre brains. At the time it was great! I don't plan on doing that ever again. Funny what a little knowledge and experience will get you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badwhale View Post
    Do you work for these guys?

    I prefer the luxury of a hand rolled cigar. Often machine rolled cigars are made of leftover tobacco from hand rolling, i.e. more inferior.
    Since webmost didn't answer your question bw, I will.......yes, he does, at least he "built" their web store according to an eerily similar post on another forum where he stated as much. Why he wouldn't do the same openly here, I dunno. Maybe he thought it would detract from his credibility while he scolds us for our ignorant/uninformed and/or snobbish consumerism regarding our choices in cigars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashauler View Post
    Since webmost didn't answer your question bw, I will.......yes, he does, at least he "built" their web store according to an eerily similar post on another forum where he stated as much. Why he wouldn't do the same openly here, I dunno. Maybe he thought it would detract from his credibility while he scolds us for our ignorant/uninformed and/or snobbish consumerism regarding our choices in cigars.
    Interesting...

    And even more interesting it appears he has an "alter-ego" named "Johnny Sotweedseed".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggiese View Post
    Interesting...

    And even more interesting it appears he has an "alter-ego" named "Johnny Sotweedseed".
    And even more interesting is that he is an Admin of another forum.....
    Sotweed is an old term used for tobacco....so he's Johnny Tobaccoseed. Cute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badwhale View Post
    A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I was a Boy Scout. We tried rolling up plain old oak leaves by the fire, and trying to smoke them. I also remember distinctly trying to roll - roll your own tobacco in plain paper and trying to smoke it.

    Ah, those days are long past.

    Back when I was like 10 while out at the lake, my brother talked me into smoking a piece of dried up reed (you know, the tall green water plants that are about finger size in diameter and grow several feet taller than the water level - usually along the shore). I wouldn't do it unless he did, so we found a dried one laying up on the shore and made ourselves cigarettes out of them and lit up.

    I also remember running out of papers once upon a time and rolling a cigarette with newspaper. It was harsh as hell, but when you're an addict, you do what you have to.....
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  14. #54

    Default American Puro

    Guys.

    I dunno. I don't understand the vitriol and animosity. True, I built the FX web site. I read an article about them, called them up, ordered some sticks, liked them, they had no site, I'm a web geek, so I made them one. I got a shirt and a couple boxes of samples and a factory tour. If it ever gets off the ground I they may give me a buck or two. Who knows what the future holds? I also host a web forum for a guy who wholesales tobacco leaf for roll their own types. He was having trouble with his host, needed a better server. I have a sever for other business purposes, so it costs me nothing. He did insist on sending me some money. I admit it. Some people are like that; they feel they have to pay you. I also made and host a site for a Kentucky tobacco farmer... thetobaccobutcher.com . He gave me a pound of Kentucky fire cured, and a buddy and I camped overnight on his farm, and his wife made us dinner. I hope to roll some fire cured sticks up when it thaws out. I like to hobby around. I am employed by a company which works to reduce the unemployment compensation tax rate which the employer pays. I am not an employee of FX Smiths. Either way, how's that affect the taste of a John Hay? There's another guy I discovered who sells leaf in Lancaster County. I intend to get hold of him this Spring once it thaws enough to ride up there. He needs a web site. Would that affect the quality of his leaf?

    Johnny Sotweedseed is a hobby project also. I was planning a motorcycle camping ride down the Blue Ridge Parkway. I packed up a dozen little cookie canisters with cigars. Couple Factory Throwout Sungrown, couple Cusano Preferidos, couple other equally mild sticks suitable for beginners in each, along with a box of matches, a punch, and a humi pack. Down the ridge I went. Each camp fire I sat beside, if I spotted a cigarette smoker or if someone expressed interest in my cigar, I'd hit them with a canister. That's the idea of Johnny Sotweedseed -- sowing the pleasure of cigar smoking. Like Johnny Appleseed but with tobacco. What's wrong with that? It was fun.

    At the same time, I have nothing to do with Flatbed or Panacea, other than I met the guy at a street fair, and I do think his wine and cigar trail is a unique idea. At least I have not seen any others. I recommend his Panacea green label. Try that. I likewise have nothing to do with Kentucky Black, Avanti, John Hay, Muniemaker... or Topper. I think I left out Topper before; but I recommended the others. Try any of them. I believe you can find an American cigar you like, if you appreciate the unique broadleaf flavor. I happen to know more about the FX line, of course; but the few Muniemakers I have tried are alright, and the Panaceas are top notch. I warn you, if you buy them at a street fair on a hot summer day, you want to bring them home and let them rest.

    I've done a little research. I found that Tatuaje rolls a cigar called La Casita Criolla out of all broadleaf -- wrapper, binder, and filler. An American puro rolled overseas. I have not tried one. I have zero relation to Tatuaje. I am beting it will have that signature American broadleaf flavor If you just have to have a Spanish named cigar rolled by torcedors, try that one. Then if you like the Broadleaf flavor, you can get that flavor in America, though you will have to put up with your despised machines, because Americans gave up tedious hand work in favor of labor saving machinery a hundred some years ago. Not every machine made is a White Owl. That is a fact. Some are all leaf and good smokes. So if you like broadleaf, then by all means do not buy an FX Smith, go and buy a Muniemaker or a Topper or a Marsh. They have loads of flavors to sample. What you save on the band you can keep in your pocket.

    Let me end with this analogy: I ride an expensive and advanced BMW R1200CLC motorcycle. I belong to their forum at chromeheads.com . I also built and host the web site r1200clc.com, because there is a need for a place with service manuals. I host the acklnowledged R12C guru at pokiespages.com. Nobody pays me for this stuff. It needed done. Several times a year a beemer rider will come to my house for maintenance projects. I put them up in the guest room if need be. They may give me a box of cigars or nothing. I also ride a cheapo and primitive 2007 Kawasaki KLR650. I belong to several forums. There's a wealth of info on the web already for KLRs, because they are a madly popular model. So I have made zero sites for KLRs. Here is the thing tho: When I go to chromeheads and extol the virtues of the KLR nobody gets their panties in a bunch. When I go to klr650.net and extol the virtues of the beemer cruiser, nobody gets all pissy about that.

    But then, neither of those groups are convinced that the only bike worth riding is a hand built $70,000 custom from Orange County Choppers, either.
    Unmitigated risk aversion is the new Puritanism; complete with witch hunts funny outfits and humorless preachers thundering doom. The Deity is Safety; Satan is a Lawyer; but the object is the same: to suck the life out of life and tell you how to live it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmost View Post
    Guys.

    I dunno. I don't understand the vitriol and animosity. True, I built the FX web site. I read an article about them, called them up, ordered some sticks, liked them, they had no site, I'm a web geek, so I made them one. I got a shirt and a couple boxes of samples and a factory tour. If it ever gets off the ground I they may give me a buck or two. Who knows what the future holds? I also host a web forum for a guy who wholesales tobacco leaf for roll their own types. He was having trouble with his host, needed a better server. I have a sever for other business purposes, so it costs me nothing. He did insist on sending me some money. I admit it. Some people are like that; they feel they have to pay you. I also made and host a site for a Kentucky tobacco farmer... thetobaccobutcher.com . He gave me a pound of Kentucky fire cured, and a buddy and I camped overnight on his farm, and his wife made us dinner. I hope to roll some fire cured sticks up when it thaws out. I like to hobby around. I am employed by a company which works to reduce the unemployment compensation tax rate which the employer pays. I am not an employee of FX Smiths. Either way, how's that affect the taste of a John Hay? There's another guy I discovered who sells leaf in Lancaster County. I intend to get hold of him this Spring once it thaws enough to ride up there. He needs a web site. Would that affect the quality of his leaf?

    Johnny Sotweedseed is a hobby project also. I was planning a motorcycle camping ride down the Blue Ridge Parkway. I packed up a dozen little cookie canisters with cigars. Couple Factory Throwout Sungrown, couple Cusano Preferidos, couple other equally mild sticks suitable for beginners in each, along with a box of matches, a punch, and a humi pack. Down the ridge I went. Each camp fire I sat beside, if I spotted a cigarette smoker or if someone expressed interest in my cigar, I'd hit them with a canister. That's the idea of Johnny Sotweedseed -- sowing the pleasure of cigar smoking. Like Johnny Appleseed but with tobacco. What's wrong with that? It was fun.

    At the same time, I have nothing to do with Flatbed or Panacea, other than I met the guy at a street fair, and I do think his wine and cigar trail is a unique idea. At least I have not seen any others. I recommend his Panacea green label. Try that. I likewise have nothing to do with Kentucky Black, Avanti, John Hay, Muniemaker... or Topper. I think I left out Topper before; but I recommended the others. Try any of them. I believe you can find an American cigar you like, if you appreciate the unique broadleaf flavor. I happen to know more about the FX line, of course; but the few Muniemakers I have tried are alright, and the Panaceas are top notch. I warn you, if you buy them at a street fair on a hot summer day, you want to bring them home and let them rest.

    I've done a little research. I found that Tatuaje rolls a cigar called La Casita Criolla out of all broadleaf -- wrapper, binder, and filler. An American puro rolled overseas. I have not tried one. I have zero relation to Tatuaje. I am beting it will have that signature American broadleaf flavor If you just have to have a Spanish named cigar rolled by torcedors, try that one. Then if you like the Broadleaf flavor, you can get that flavor in America, though you will have to put up with your despised machines, because Americans gave up tedious hand work in favor of labor saving machinery a hundred some years ago. Not every machine made is a White Owl. That is a fact. Some are all leaf and good smokes. So if you like broadleaf, then by all means do not buy an FX Smith, go and buy a Muniemaker or a Topper or a Marsh. They have loads of flavors to sample. What you save on the band you can keep in your pocket.

    Let me end with this analogy: I ride an expensive and advanced BMW R1200CLC motorcycle. I belong to their forum at chromeheads.com . I also built and host the web site r1200clc.com, because there is a need for a place with service manuals. I host the acklnowledged R12C guru at pokiespages.com. Nobody pays me for this stuff. It needed done. Several times a year a beemer rider will come to my house for maintenance projects. I put them up in the guest room if need be. They may give me a box of cigars or nothing. I also ride a cheapo and primitive 2007 Kawasaki KLR650. I belong to several forums. There's a wealth of info on the web already for KLRs, because they are a madly popular model. So I have made zero sites for KLRs. Here is the thing tho: When I go to chromeheads and extol the virtues of the KLR nobody gets their panties in a bunch. When I go to klr650.net and extol the virtues of the beemer cruiser, nobody gets all pissy about that.

    But then, neither of those groups are convinced that the only bike worth riding is a hand built $70,000 custom from Orange County Choppers, either.
    This is an absolutely terrible analogy. Especially if you're trying to draw a comparison between cigars and motorcycles.
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    What animosity and vitriol? You revived this thread with what was close to an advertisement for some American machine made cigars. You were asked if you worked for them, and you ignored the question and proceeded to tell us all the difference between pedigreed dogs and mutts from the shelter. Take a look at my avatar. Does that look like an AKC registered pure-breed to you? Hell, he even suffers the indignity of being called a poodle by some of the goof-balls on this board.

    Then you feel the need to teach us that the quality of the cigar isn't related to the beauty of it's band. BTW, those Ave Maria's have one of the most obnoxious bands I've ever seen. I don't understand why you'd buy any cigars other than machine rolled, after all, the only difference is the cost and the band.

    Quote Originally Posted by webmost
    snip..... I've done a little research. I found that Tatuaje rolls a cigar called La Casita Criolla out of all broadleaf -- wrapper, binder, and filler....
    Research? What, like reading post #19 on this thread?

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    Nice poodle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craig View Post
    Nice poodle.
    That didn't take long.

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    Buzz made me do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmost View Post
    Guys.

    I dunno. I don't understand the vitriol and animosity.
    I can see someone making an "intelligent" argument that machine made cigars "smoke" just like a premium made hand made cigar. However, there can be no intelligent argument that the experience is the same...
    I have to believe you're not so ignorant to believe that your BMW R1200CLC and Kawasaki KLR650 are both the same motorcycle (after all - one could argue they are both two wheeled motorized conveyances). I also have to believe you're not so ignorant to believe either of those motorcycles are "machine made" (as "Johnny Sopweedseed" suggests).

    I'm not sure my comment was written with "vitriol" or "animosity", but it does hit the point of why you're getting flak from this community about your statement. Did you really expect to make a sweeping generalization that smoking a machine made cigar is exactly the same as smoking a hand rolled cigar and not engage in a discussion about your views? Or that folks are foolish for smoking "fancy band" premium cigars over a machine made American made cigar? Is it your thought that if you make such an incredible claim - you'd be greeted with open arms, cake and ice cream? Dude - seriuosly - you seem old enough to understand that it screams of absolute ignornace...

    Hey - I've made some wild claims in the past and taken flak for it. I could have either slithered away - or take the beating I deserved and moved on. If you're willing to make a bold stand - just be prepared to defend yourself AND be willing to listen to criticism. You might just learn something through the process...

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