Floor Coverings - Ahh Yeah!

[heftysmokes]

Maybe he's just squishing them, like those souvenir penny machines?


Actually, this got me curious and a little digging turned up this:

As you are already aware, a federal statute in the criminal code of the United States (18 U.S.C. 331), indeed makes it illegal if one "fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens" any U.S. coin. However, being a criminal statute, a fraudulent intent is required for violation. Thus, the mere act of compressing coins into souvenirs is not illegal, without other factors being present.

Section 475, which you refer to in your letter, regarding the attachment of notice or advertisement to legal tender, does not apply to your souvenirs in this case. Your are not impressing or attaching a business or professional card, notice or advertisement to a coin, your are simply making an impression on the coin.

We hope this information answers your question. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely,

Kenneth B. Gubin
Counsel to the Mint.

I actually did, on the vanity in the kids' bathroom, the same thing they did on the floor. And if they did theirs like I did my vanity, they didn't "alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens" the pennies. They are encased, but not destroyed in any way. I suppose if I was really in a bind for a 12 pack I could dig out the $17 worth of pennies.

[craig]

I realize news travels slowly to Cape Breton , but Canada is stopping production of the penny - which is only a few percent copper these days.

You *could* do a floor made of cigar bands ... (and urethane)

[CoventryCat86]

Maybe he's just squishing them, like those souvenir penny machines?


Actually, this got me curious and a little digging turned up this:

As you are already aware, a federal statute in the criminal code of the United States (18 U.S.C. 331), indeed makes it illegal if one "fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens" any U.S. coin. However, being a criminal statute, a fraudulent intent is required for violation. Thus, the mere act of compressing coins into souvenirs is not illegal, without other factors being present.

Section 475, which you refer to in your letter, regarding the attachment of notice or advertisement to legal tender, does not apply to your souvenirs in this case. Your are not impressing or attaching a business or professional card, notice or advertisement to a coin, your are simply making an impression on the coin.

We hope this information answers your question. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely,

Kenneth B. Gubin
Counsel to the Mint.

I actually did, on the vanity in the kids' bathroom, the same thing they did on the floor. And if they did theirs like I did my vanity, they didn't "alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens" the pennies. They are encased, but not destroyed in any way. I suppose if I was really in a bind for a 12 pack I could dig out the $17 worth of pennies.

That's a very strange interpretation of the US Code and I don't believe it to be correct. This Gubin guy is saying that "fraudulently" applies to everything after it meaning:

"fraudulently alters"
"fraudulently defaces"
"fraudulently mutilates"
"fraudulently impair"
etc.,

which is bullshit.

The way the code reads is:

"fraudulently alters"
"defaces"
"mutilates"
"impairs"
"diminishes"
etc.,

so it certainly can be interpreted to mean that making impressions on coins or using them as flooring material is in violation of the code. Anyone can use that Gubin guy's letter as justification for violating the code but it's going to cost you lost of money in attorney fees if someone decides they want to make a "federal case" out of it.

As for me, I'll pass and as I said earlier regarding using pennies as a floor covering material, it's not very cost effective never mind looking like crap.

[heftysmokes]

Ya, what the fuck does this Gubin guy know anyway, he's only legal counsel to the United States mint.
http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?action=policy

[CoventryCat86]

Ya, what the fuck does this Gubin guy know anyway, he's only legal counsel to the United States mint.
http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?action=policy

No he's not, he left 12 years ago, get your facts straight. And as I said before, he gave his opinion on an issue regarding putting impressions on coins which is different from other violations of the code that could be interpreted differently by whoever wants to make a "federal case" out of it, or not.

[heftysmokes]

No he's not, he left 12 years ago, get your facts straight. And as I said before, he gave his opinion on an issue regarding putting impressions on coins which is different from other violations of the code that could be interpreted differently by whoever wants to make a "federal case" out of it, or not.

Yep, my mistake there.
Aside from that, how are the coins being mutilated or destroyed? They're being encased in plastic, and if someone wanted to put the work in, they could dig the damn things out and go to town on every penny gumball machine in town.

[CoventryCat86]

Yep, my mistake there.
Aside from that, how are the coins being mutilated or destroyed? They're being encased in plastic, and if someone wanted to put the work in, they could dig the damn things out and go to town on every penny gumball machine in town.

You're free to make your case to whoever you need to make that case to if you ever get caught up in someone accusing you of violating the federal code, I'm not going to argue with you about it. I'm simply of the opinion that it isn't worth walking into that grey area of potentially getting yourself in trouble as remote as the possibility may be, it still exists.