New here-Cuban ?'s

[ggiese]

...and the price differences in the "garment industry" for "high-end" versus regular production (with which you say you have some knowledge). I'm grasping here (because I don't work in or around the garment industry), but as a consumer that has "experienced" garments trhoughout my life I'm seeking to understand your rationale here...

Are you suggesting that generic winter coats made for Walmart or Kmart are only "pennies" difference in comparison with winter coats made by/for North Face or Columbia?!? ...shirts made by companies supplying Walmart or Kmart being "pennies" different than shirts made for Ralph Lauren or Nautica?!?

...or purses made for JC Penney or Wackenhut are only "pennies" difference with purses made by/for Coach or Louis Vuitton?!?

And further following your logic - cars made by General Motors or Ford are only "pennies" difference with cars made by Porsche or Lamborghini?!?

There are clear reasons why I would choose a Mont Blanc pen over a Bic - or a DuPont Lighter over a Zippo - and a Ralph Lauren shirt over a Walmart brand. It really has nothing generally to do with the name that's on it (though it is a "promise" through their brand that I'm receiving a high quality product) - but actually much more for me to do with the durability and value I'm receiving for the money I'm spending.

With cigars - While I do enjoy a Quinteros from time to time, there truly is no comparison to a Cohiba or a Davidoff. And - in that - even more mind boggling - could a Quinteros possibly be only "pennies" difference to produce than a Cohiba or a Davidoff?

I think you'd find it far easier arguing that lead can be turned into gold...

[badwhale]

wow. Someone just pressed George's button.

[ggiese]

wow. Someone just pressed George's button.

Yeah - I'll admit it - I am a bit "rattled" by Craig's thoughts. I'm really trying my damndest to get my head around Craig's thinking.

Cigar pricing seems to me to be pretty objective, although it's hard to argue that there might not be some subjectiveness to it. Maybe it's overkill, I just keep coming to the same place no matter how I slice and dice it. Maybe I'm missing something, (not withstanding Lew Rothman's opinions) there's no way it's logical to conclude that a cheap cigar is only "pennies" difference to produce than a high-end, top of the line premium.

Bottom line - while "opinions" are mostly okay, I think whomever reads our forum is entitled to the RIGHT information. So, for example, if a member writes a cigar review suggesting that a La Flor Dominicana Chisel is the mildest cigar they've ever tasted - you can confidently bet your next paycheck I'll be asking some "clarifying" questions!!!

But yes, Will, I am anxiously awaiting understanding of what I may have missed here...

[badwhale]

Maybe "pennies" is the exaggeration.

On the other hand, is a Padron 80th ($30) really $26 more expensive to produce than a 3000 ($4)?

[badwhale]

Also, the examples you give of Zippo vs. St. Dupont (or however the hell I just typed that wrong... cue CC)
or a Bic vs. a Mont Blanc...I can't really get behind either.

Both lighters do the same thing, ultimately. Excluding the diamond encrusted versions, they both comprise basically the same amounts & types of materials. And the pens, well, I never understood the allure of a fancy pen. I've had some shitty pens too, don't get me wrong, but the Bic, although cheap, has always done it's job. Because the cigar experience is subjective (unlike a lighter or a pen) I CAN justify an occasional Padron 80th.

My neighbor has been enjoying cigars with me for the last year or so. He honsestly prefers Padron maduro londres over a PAM corona.

I'm not saying that a cheap short filler cigar is virtually the quality / cost to produce as a high end cigar, just that as you move into "high end" cigars, they are making considerably more of a profit. How much more? I don't know.

[ggiese]

Also, the examples you give of Zippo vs. St. Dupont (or however the hell I just typed that wrong... cue CC)
or a Bic vs. a Mont Blanc...I can't really get behind either.

Both lighters do the same thing, ultimately. Excluding the diamond encrusted versions, they both comprise basically the same amounts & types of materials. And the pens, well, I never understood the allure of a fancy pen. I've had some shitty pens too, don't get me wrong, but the Bic, although cheap, has always done it's job. Because the cigar experience is subjective (unlike a lighter or a pen) I CAN justify an occasional Padron 80th.

My neighbor has been enjoying cigars with me for the last year or so. He honsestly prefers Padron maduro londres over a PAM corona.

I'm not saying that a cheap short filler cigar is virtually the quality / cost to produce as a high end cigar, just that as you move into "high end" cigars, they are making considerably more of a profit. How much more? I don't know.

Wow... Interesting. You might not understand why you'd sign your name with a Mont Blanc or light your cigars with a S.T. Dupont when there are suitable alternatives (BTW - purposefully chose not to represent a "diamond encrusted" S.T. DuPont lighter against the Zippo - I chose a "low-end" DuPont to be more fair in the comparison. It's very hard to argue that a Mont Blanc or S.T. DuPont is the exactly the same as a Bic or Zippo except for the price. And even more incredible to argue that production costs are even in the same ballpark...

So if I'm following what you (and Craig) are saying - cigars made in one of the many shops in Guatemala cost within "pennies" of the cigars made at the Arturo Fuente factory in the DR?

Take it one step further to put this in better perspective... I get it - the neighbor would rather spend his money on a Padron Maduro Londres over a PAM Corona, but if it's just "pennies" (or even a few dollars) difference, why does a PAM Corona cost signficantly more? If they're both created from the same process using the same materials with the same craftsman both cigars and equal in every way, why, then, the difference in price? Is it because Padron is looking to make absolute maximum profits on their PAM Corona - versus just blowing out the Padron Maduro Londres? There would have to be a better explanation....

One of my biggest personal mistakes I've made was to buy my first "luxury" car. Some would argue that a car is a car is a car - so why would it be a "mistake"? It was significantly more expensive that what I'd previously driven, and was truly a dream to drive compared to what I was used to. I must admit - it will now be quite an adjustment for me to go back to my Yugo. But - bottom line - it was not manufactured to the same standards with the same materials and production costs within a "few dollars" of what I'd previously driven.

Same with cigars. It's impossible to imagine, having smoked a number of them, that a Padron 80th is manufactured to the same standards with the same materials and production costs within a "few pennies" (or even dollars) of a Thousand series cigar. I would argue, my friends, the Padron 80th does cost hard dollars to create versus the mass production of the Thousand series. If not - EVERY cigar Padron made would be very much the same and there would be no difference in cost.

Perhaps we can get a Padron rep to give us the backstory on production costs. What I'm hearing from you and Craig is very much contrary to the explantions I've been given in various conversation with cigar factory reps...

[badwhale]

One of my biggest personal mistakes I've made was to buy my first "luxury" car. Some would argue that a car is a car is a car - so why would it be a "mistake"? It was significantly more expensive that what I'd previously driven, and was truly a dream to drive compared to what I was used to. I must admit - it will now be quite an adjustment for me to go back to my Yugo. But - bottom line - it was not manufactured to the same standards with the same materials and production costs within a "few dollars" of what I'd previously driven.

Perhaps we can get a Padron rep to give us the backstory on production costs. What I'm hearing from you and Craig is very much contrary to the explantions I've been given in various conversation with cigar factory reps...

For the record, I specifically avoided a car comparison so as not to bring up the painful Yugo memory.

Of course a Padron rep would be able to "justify" a 26 dollar disparity...