Humidity

[craig]

And/or it just tells you that using a baggie to check hydrometers may not work all that well (and it often doesn't, unless there is a fan in the bag).

[ggiese]

Ok - if you can't get your humidor to precisely 70% with temperature at precisely 72 degrees, your cigars will fall apart.

To get the most accurate humidity reading possible, you need a chilled mirror hygrometer...

The heart of a chilled mirror hygrometer is the sample chamber, through which the gas to be measured flows. The chamber contains a coolable mirror and an optical system that measures the mirror reflectivity. During operation, the mirror is cooled until dew or frost begins to condense on it, changing the reflectivity and the optical output. The optical signal drives electronics that control the temperature of the mirror to maintain a constant layer of condensation. The mirror is therefore held at the dew/frost temperature. The dew/frost temperature is a fundamental property of water vapor and therefore an inherently reliable measure of moisture concentration. A temperature sensor imbedded in the mirror provides a direct measure of dew/frost temperature.

Why they are inherently reliable:

Chilled mirror hygrometers are inherently reliable because of this operating principle, and because the dew/frost temperature is measured directly – there is no need to convert parameters such as resistance, voltage, etc., to humidity through a calibration equation. We ensure temperature reading accuracy by using ultra-stable mirror temperature sensors that are calibrated against a NIST-traceable reference standard.

During operation, no long-term error can exist. If an error in mirror temperature somehow appeared, its dew or frost layer would immediately begin to increase or decrease, and the control circuit would heat or cool the mirror to restore the proper frost layer. Therefore, as long as the control system is operating, the mirror temperature must remain exactly at the dew/frost point.

[badwhale]

Ok - if you can't get your humidor to precisely 70% with temperature at precisely 72 degrees, your cigars will fall apart.

To get the most accurate humidity reading possible, you need a chilled mirror hygrometer...

The heart of a chilled mirror hygrometer is the sample chamber, through which the gas to be measured flows. The chamber contains a coolable mirror and an optical system that measures the mirror reflectivity. During operation, the mirror is cooled until dew or frost begins to condense on it, changing the reflectivity and the optical output. The optical signal drives electronics that control the temperature of the mirror to maintain a constant layer of condensation. The mirror is therefore held at the dew/frost temperature. The dew/frost temperature is a fundamental property of water vapor and therefore an inherently reliable measure of moisture concentration. A temperature sensor imbedded in the mirror provides a direct measure of dew/frost temperature.

Why they are inherently reliable:

Chilled mirror hygrometers are inherently reliable because of this operating principle, and because the dew/frost temperature is measured directly – there is no need to convert parameters such as resistance, voltage, etc., to humidity through a calibration equation. We ensure temperature reading accuracy by using ultra-stable mirror temperature sensors that are calibrated against a NIST-traceable reference standard.

During operation, no long-term error can exist. If an error in mirror temperature somehow appeared, its dew or frost layer would immediately begin to increase or decrease, and the control circuit would heat or cool the mirror to restore the proper frost layer. Therefore, as long as the control system is operating, the mirror temperature must remain exactly at the dew/frost point.

I read about that in the September '98 Cigar Aficionado article. I'm surprised my cigars haven't fallen apart yet, but I guess I'm just lucky sofar. I kinda like the sharp citrus flavor that cigars develop when they're within a degree of the optimum 70rh. On the other hand, I do not like when they fluctuate up to 71, and you get that distinct sweaty sock flavor.

[tc3driver]

One out of three aint bad! Calibrate the other two and you are golden!

Thanks for demonstrating the fact that hygrometers really, really need to be calibrated! Imagine how bad the analog ones are!

The problem being that the two that are off, are not calibrate-able, or at least not that I can figure out. The big square one on the bottom came with a high dollar Humidor that is "calibrated in the factory and does not ever need calibration"... same story for the cheap xicar.

And/or it just tells you that using a baggie to check hydrometers may not work all that well (and it often doesn't, unless there is a fan in the bag).

Interesting... I know I have a tiny fan laying around here somewhere... I can hook one up to a battery and toss it in there see if that makes a difference.

edit:


We'll let that sit for a couple days and see how that turns out.

Ok - if you can't get your humidor to precisely 70% with temperature at precisely 72 degrees, your cigars will fall apart.

To get the most accurate humidity reading possible, you need a chilled mirror hygrometer...

The heart of a chilled mirror hygrometer is the sample chamber, through which the gas to be measured flows. The chamber contains a coolable mirror and an optical system that measures the mirror reflectivity. During operation, the mirror is cooled until dew or frost begins to condense on it, changing the reflectivity and the optical output. The optical signal drives electronics that control the temperature of the mirror to maintain a constant layer of condensation. The mirror is therefore held at the dew/frost temperature. The dew/frost temperature is a fundamental property of water vapor and therefore an inherently reliable measure of moisture concentration. A temperature sensor imbedded in the mirror provides a direct measure of dew/frost temperature.

Why they are inherently reliable:

Chilled mirror hygrometers are inherently reliable because of this operating principle, and because the dew/frost temperature is measured directly – there is no need to convert parameters such as resistance, voltage, etc., to humidity through a calibration equation. We ensure temperature reading accuracy by using ultra-stable mirror temperature sensors that are calibrated against a NIST-traceable reference standard.

During operation, no long-term error can exist. If an error in mirror temperature somehow appeared, its dew or frost layer would immediately begin to increase or decrease, and the control circuit would heat or cool the mirror to restore the proper frost layer. Therefore, as long as the control system is operating, the mirror temperature must remain exactly at the dew/frost point.

Even more interesting... how can one fit one of these in a humidor...

BTW welcome Twotacotuesday :)

[ggiese]

I read about that in the September '98 Cigar Aficionado article. I'm surprised my cigars haven't fallen apart yet, but I guess I'm just lucky sofar. I kinda like the sharp citrus flavor that cigars develop when they're within a degree of the optimum 70rh. On the other hand, I do not like when they fluctuate up to 71, and you get that distinct sweaty sock flavor.

Hmmmm... I've been using a chilled mirror hygrometer for so long now, I actually have not had an issue with flavor. The "citrus flavor" you describe intrigues me, but I'm not risking the possibility my Macanudo's and Acid's could fall apart. That would be very tragic

....Even more interesting... how can one fit one of these in a humidor...

BTW welcome Twotacotuesday :)

Hahahahaha.... Fitting a chilled mirror in a humidor... LOL.

Look - we have to sacrifice if we want to have optimal conditions to store our cigars. I had to give up a part of my garage, and a small portion of my daughter's closet, - and a special filtered power line - but I got my hygrometer installed. If I recall correctly, the entire project was just shy of $20k, but well worth it. I absolutely love it! Works like a charm, and my cigars are incredible. In order to maintain the tightest rH tolerance, I had to scale back my humidor a tad (went from about 1,000 cigars to 250). I can't go back now!

I seriously feel sorry for those using the el-cheapo digital hygrometers. You make a great point in your post - exactly why I switched. And analog hygrometers? How 1700's...

[tc3driver]

Hahahahaha.... Fitting a chilled mirror in a humidor... LOL.

Look - we have to sacrifice if we want to have optimal conditions to store our cigars. I had to give up a part of my garage, and a small portion of my daughter's closet, - and a special filtered power line - but I got my hygrometer installed. If I recall correctly, the entire project was just shy of $20k, but well worth it. I absolutely love it! Works like a charm, and my cigars are incredible. I can't go back now!

I seriously feel sorry for those using the el-cheapo digital hygrometers. You make a great point in your post - exactly why I switched. And analog hygrometers? How 1700's...

My next humidor!
http://www.edgetech.com/moisture-hum...ror-hygrometer

[Twotacotuesday]

Thanks for all the help everyone! Continue to learn every day. Do I have to worry about my cigars falling apart? Is that more of a long time aging issue?

[ggiese]

My next humidor!
http://www.edgetech.com/moisture-hum...ror-hygrometer

Where the heck was that when I installed mine? Damn - I know it's only been a couple of years, but how the heck did they compress my equipment into a hygrometer of that size!!! Impressive!!!

I would suggest it, but likely the wifey will kill me if I come to her looking to buy the smaller version. Of course - my daughter will probably love me more when she gets her closet back, and my son will be thrilled I'll have a garage bay he can park his car. Maybe I can use those two to soften up the wife.

[CptnBlues63]

The problem being that the two that are off, are not calibrate-able, or at least not that I can figure out. The big square one on the bottom came with a high dollar Humidor that is "calibrated in the factory and does not ever need calibration"... same story for the cheap xicar.

BTW welcome Twotacotuesday :)

I have two Caliber III's in my humi and they're always within 1% RH of each other. One's in the bottom, the other the very top. Unlike the IV's, the III's can't be calibrated. But from what I've seen, they don't need it at all. They've consistently kept the same for about 3 or so years now and I'm quite happy with them. I had bought a Xikar one before the Caliber's and it didn't work right. They (Xikar) replaced it and the replacement was just as bad so I actually threw that one out....lol.

I almost bought some Caliber IV's because they can be adjusted but my III's are still working just fine so there's no point. I admit though, I didn't like that they weren't adjustable but over the course of the first year I had the III's I tested them several times to ensure they were accurate and they were/are.

I've had two different analog hygrometers (came with the humi's) and neither one was worth the gun powder it would take to blow them to pieces.

Welcome to the board Twotacotuesday.