Be thankful we have CS

[ashauler]

Asshat's are not a problem, even when they show up.

[ggiese]

I have not touched HP in YEARS (that's the first cigar forum community I joined). I learned a bunch from that group - and am extremely grateful for the friendships I've made through the site (e.g. Kevin). I'm sorry to see it's taking a different direction...

But - times are a changin'. Good, bad or otherwise it's not as it was 10 years ago - and I expect it will be far different in 10 more years. I don't think it's so much the cigar smoking community, as much as it a change in overall social attitudes. I've seen a definite shift in those attitudes from when I was much younger. There was definitely more respect shown for one another in past times. We opened doors from another, we smiled at one another, we said "ma'am" and "sir". We called each other Mr. or Mrs., not by first name. I'm so sorry our younger generation was not exposed to it as much as I was...

Lately I've noticed that people are more about expecting others to be courteous to them, but not feeling they needed to courteous to others. No more holding doors for one another - it's now a race to see who gets through first. No more calling people "ma'am" or "sir" - or even by first name - it's now "ASSHOLE!". Being upset that someone changed a traffic lane and are now in front of them... And There's a fair amount of anger in all of this - which seriously troubles me.

A perfect example of the subtleness of what's going on now... The other day my wife and I went to a nearby Target. It was snowing pretty heavy outside and I struggled to get in the building without being hit by cars weaving between pedestrians trying to get in the store (they could care less there were pedestrians - they needed to get from point A to point B without interference). We got inside and found many of the shopping carts covered in snow. We did find a cart that was not as snow filled as the others, and pushed it over to the cafe area to get a bite to eat (and let it melt and dry out a bit). I left the cart at the entrance to the seating area, but was in close proximity. Two young ladies came into the entrance, walked past a very large group of shopping carts and quite a distance to where my cart was parked. Ignoring my efforts to get their attention, the ladies grabbed my cart and walked away. I followed behind them and caught up - saying "excuse me - but you've taken my cart..." The woman looked at me with disdain and said "So! There are a bunch of carts over there!" (pointing in the direction of the carts she'd passed to get to mine). I told her - "you're right - there are - and I'm wondering why you would pass all of those carts to get to the my cart..." Her response - "I don't see what the big deal is..."

I got my cart back and did not protest further - but the interaction really troubled me. Not that long ago if that were to happen the woman mistakingly taking my cart would have profusely apologized and given it back. I got the distinct impression from this young lady, "...how dare you question my choice in carts!" No concern - no care - no nothing... It was completely devoid of any common courtesy. Again - it's the "I expect you to be courteous to me (e.g. give me your cart), but do NOT expect me to be courteous to you!" Take - with no expectation of contributing. In that small interaction I'm left pondering - why has our social norm eroded so much?

Through all of my interactions I've tried to be a mentor to others. Not by words - but by actions. What I say is not nearly important as how I act. Lately that's been extremely challenging - because it seems people think fully believe I'm crazy for being the way I am... When I was first on the boards I did my best to contribute and hold people responsible for their words and actions. I may have been tough on some folks at times - but it was never without good purpose. However - If I do that today I'm convinced there's a darned good chance they'll come to my house and set fire to my car...

I thank my friends on this forum for being as respectful as you are. Even though I don't participate as much as I once did - these are the last places I can come to feel a sense of community,. And I appreciate the opportunity is still available in this place. However - I fear the "why" in our membership not being what it once was is because we're rats clinging to a sinking ship...

[craig]

She deliberately chose and took your kart. B....

Was it that long ago that there was no Target (or similar), and people shopped in stores where the people serving you actually knew your name?

Pretty much gone in my lifetime, anyhow. (And now there's no more Target in Canada, either.)

Which reminds me, I have to visit my neighbourhood butcher. He doesn't know my name, but knows exactly what cuts of meat I want.

[TheGreekTitan]

I have not touched HP in YEARS (that's the first cigar forum community I joined). I learned a bunch from that group - and am extremely grateful for the friendships I've made through the site (e.g. Kevin). I'm sorry to see it's taking a different direction...

But - times are a changin'. Good, bad or otherwise it's not as it was 10 years ago - and I expect it will be far different in 10 more years. I don't think it's so much the cigar smoking community, as much as it a change in overall social attitudes. I've seen a definite shift in those attitudes from when I was much younger. There was definitely more respect shown for one another in past times. We opened doors from another, we smiled at one another, we said "ma'am" and "sir". We called each other Mr. or Mrs., not by first name. I'm so sorry our younger generation was not exposed to it as much as I was...

Lately I've noticed that people are more about expecting others to be courteous to them, but not feeling they needed to courteous to others. No more holding doors for one another - it's now a race to see who gets through first. No more calling people "ma'am" or "sir" - or even by first name - it's now "ASSHOLE!". Being upset that someone changed a traffic lane and are now in front of them... And There's a fair amount of anger in all of this - which seriously troubles me.

A perfect example of the subtleness of what's going on now... The other day my wife and I went to a nearby Target. It was snowing pretty heavy outside and I struggled to get in the building without being hit by cars weaving between pedestrians trying to get in the store (they could care less there were pedestrians - they needed to get from point A to point B without interference). We got inside and found many of the shopping carts covered in snow. We did find a cart that was not as snow filled as the others, and pushed it over to the cafe area to get a bite to eat (and let it melt and dry out a bit). I left the cart at the entrance to the seating area, but was in close proximity. Two young ladies came into the entrance, walked past a very large group of shopping carts and quite a distance to where my cart was parked. Ignoring my efforts to get their attention, the ladies grabbed my cart and walked away. I followed behind them and caught up - saying "excuse me - but you've taken my cart..." The woman looked at me with disdain and said "So! There are a bunch of carts over there!" (pointing in the direction of the carts she'd passed to get to mine). I told her - "you're right - there are - and I'm wondering why you would pass all of those carts to get to the my cart..." Her response - "I don't see what the big deal is..."

I got my cart back and did not protest further - but the interaction really troubled me. Not that long ago if that were to happen the woman mistakingly taking my cart would have profusely apologized and given it back. I got the distinct impression from this young lady, "...how dare you question my choice in carts!" No concern - no care - no nothing... It was completely devoid of any common courtesy. Again - it's the "I expect you to be courteous to me (e.g. give me your cart), but do NOT expect me to be courteous to you!" Take - with no expectation of contributing. In that small interaction I'm left pondering - why has our social norm eroded so much?

Through all of my interactions I've tried to be a mentor to others. Not by words - but by actions. What I say is not nearly important as how I act. Lately that's been extremely challenging - because it seems people think fully believe I'm crazy for being the way I am... When I was first on the boards I did my best to contribute and hold people responsible for their words and actions. I may have been tough on some folks at times - but it was never without good purpose. However - If I do that today I'm convinced there's a darned good chance they'll come to my house and set fire to my car...

I thank my friends on this forum for being as respectful as you are. Even though I don't participate as much as I once did - these are the last places I can come to feel a sense of community,. And I appreciate the opportunity is still available in this place. However - I fear the "why" in our membership not being what it once was is because we're rats clinging to a sinking ship...

Thanks for the post George. I want to add to this, but I'm tired. I'll get my 2 cents in soon on the entitled mentality of today's society.

Ridiculous that I say that at 43, but.....

[badwhale]

I see entitlement, and douchebaggery, but I also see a lot of courage and giving where I am.

My 2 cents is that social media has really taken a toll on (all) forums, as well as anti-smoking campaigns specific to cigar forums.

[CoventryCat86]

I see entitlement, and douchebaggery, but I also see a lot of courage and giving where I am.

My 2 cents is that social media has really taken a toll on (all) forums, as well as anti-smoking campaigns specific to cigar forums.

You are 100% correct. What's too bad is almost all of those forums (whether it be car forums, pachinko forums or diesel engine forums) with less traffic than ten years ago keep asking themselves "why" and just like what's going on at HP right now, too many people think that "trolling" and "unpleasantness" are bigger problems than they actually are.

[ashauler]

Seems as if we've had almost the exact same discussions here.

[kevin7]

HP is good and bad and different from CS. I troll and I have been responsible for members leaving probably . Anybody who has met me knows I am not some psyco and some people are very thin skinned by nature. We talk loud and ornery at herfs and still have each others back. Online communities are kind of like a workplace ,people who you get along with,ones you like,ones you avoid and ones you wouldn't whip your dick out and piss on them if they were on fire. Id piss on anybody here if'n they were on fire LOL