Stupid traffic ticket

[ggiese]

I don't specifically know the laws of your state hex, but I would suggest two things: First, write a letter requesting a jury trial. Most counties have their dockets set up so that each arresting officer has all his cases on the same day. That way the officer only goes to court once per month. If you request a jury trial, it automatically throws him in court a second day, effectively doubling his work load.

Secondly, after writing the letter, call the cop. Say that you are concerned about the points and ask if she can reduce it to negligent driver or the equivalent, which usually carries a fine but no points. The key is to avoid points.

Even if the cop won't deal, you can always pay the fine prior to actually going to court. If your state has a class system, then I would recommend taking the class. SC does not, so I am not very familiar with them.

I don't know about this tactic. Seems to me if you request a jury trial, whether you have one or not, they're going to charge you for it. Plus, you've also gotta spend the day in court along with the officer. Also, the officer is generally on company time, or more likely on overtime - so you're actually doing him a favor by bringing him into court a second time "all day". I don't know of any officers I've seen that were particularly bothered by this...

Secondly, calling the officer is not going to work - he/she will talk to you, but they really have no interest in the outcome of the ticket, so they're not going to step up and ask the court to reduce anything. I've never seen that being done, and I can't see it happening.

Thirdly, at some point it all catches up. It is important for you to keep any "points", "demerits", or whatever off of your license. Insurance companies base their rates on how much of a risk you are. The more points you have, the higher the insurance premium. However, if you are constantly speeding and picking up tickets, there will be a point in time where the court will not grant "supervision", "probation" or whatever to keep the ticket off of you license. Once that starts to happen, it's a slippery slope unless one stops getting tickets. In Illinois, where I live, the court system keeps track of such matters. They only allow a few tickets in a year or two before they make it a conviction - or send the person to driving school.

Best advice here is to avoid getting the traffic tickets to begin with. Contrary to popular belief, the general idea of receiving a ticket is not to generate income, but to correct poor driving behaviors. This is crucial for reducing the number and severity of crashes.

If you get a ticket, go in front of the judge and ask for supervision, whatever, yourself. Generally, as long as you have a "decent" record and the offense wasn't real bad (like reckelss driving, suspended drivers license, speeding more than $30 miles over the limit, etc.) the judge will work to keep it off your license. With the run of the mill ticket, hiring a lawyer will generally add about $100-200 to the cost of the ticket to end up with the same result you would have had if you had just stepped up yourself...

[bardock]

trial by declaration is a good way to go, you request a paper trial, that way the cop doesnt get his overtime, and he has to turn in evidence against you within a certain time limit...if he is too lazy to submit the evidence, then the case is dismissed. well...this is about a month too late, but, its good for future reference.

[ggiese]

trial by declaration is a good way to go, you request a paper trial, that way the cop doesnt get his overtime, and he has to turn in evidence against you within a certain time limit...if he is too lazy to submit the evidence, then the case is dismissed. well...this is about a month too late, but, its good for future reference.

What is a "trial by declaration"? I've never heard of that...

[bardock]

im not so sure about other states, but here in CA, you can have a trial by declaration without ever going to the court, and if you lose, you are entitled to a new trial (trial de novo) per Section 40902(d) of the California Vehicle Code. This gives you two chances to win. So, its good be in california.

[CoventryCat86]

What is a "trial by declaration"? I've never heard of that...

Yeah George, all this stuff varies widely from state to state. One thing they do in Connecticut is for infractions, you can ONLY get a trial in front of a magistrate and if you or the States Attorney's Office don't like the outcome, you can make a motion to the court for a "Trial de Novo" in front of a judge.

Also in Connecticut, if you are given a ticket for an INFRACTION (minor ticket) you DO NOT have the option of a jury trial.

A long time ago, I was given a high dollar speeding ticket, I went in front of a judge and said I wanted a trial by jury since speeding at that level (at the time over 70 mph in a 55 zone, the officer said I was going 72 but he confused me with another car since it was 4:30 p.m. in HEAVY traffic on the Friday Memorial Day weekend) was an automatic court appearance, not an infraction (a mail-in ticket). I had photographs of the heavy traffic and figured I had a great chance to be found not guilty by a jury.

When I requested the jury trial, the prosecutor said, "Your honor, I will substitute charge the defendant with unreasonable speed which is an infraction which means he does not qualify for a jury trial."

Curses, foiled again I was found guilty by a judge because you can't defend yourself against a lying police officer (no offense George but this guy was an outright liar).

[ggiese]

Yeah George, all this stuff varies widely from state to state. One thing they do in Connecticut is for infractions, you can ONLY get a trial in front of a magistrate and if you or the States Attorney's Office don't like the outcome, you can make a motion to the court for a "Trial de Novo" in front of a judge.

Also in Connecticut, if you are given a ticket for an INFRACTION (minor ticket) you DO NOT have the option of a jury trial.

A long time ago, I was given a high dollar speeding ticket, I went in front of a judge and said I wanted a trial by jury since speeding at that level (at the time over 70 mph in a 55 zone, the officer said I was going 72 but he confused me with another car since it was 4:30 p.m. in HEAVY traffic on the Friday Memorial Day weekend) was an automatic court appearance, not an infraction (a mail-in ticket). I had photographs of the heavy traffic and figured I had a great chance to be found not guilty by a jury.

When I requested the jury trial, the prosecutor said, "Your honor, I will substitute charge the defendant with unreasonable speed which is an infraction which means he does not qualify for a jury trial."

Curses, foiled again I was found guilty by a judge because you can't defend yourself against a lying police officer (no offense George but this guy was an outright liar).

No offense taken, CC - I have a broken knuckle because of a lying police officer that was going to ticket my ex-wife (she was the wife at the time) for "improper backing" in a rear end collision. The bastid was trying to say my ex-wife backed into the car behind her - so fast that it caused the entire trunk area to collapse - through a stop intersection. I punched the wall rather than him, I was so pissed off... He bent to reason when I explained it would be tough to keep that lie up, considering the circumstances didn't match his story... For some reason he thought my ex-wife was trying to "manufacture" the accident in order to "collect insurance money".

I'm convinced that about 5% of the population are a$$holes - which means that about 5% of the cops are a$$holes. I've met a few, I hate to say... Doesn't in the least bit surprise me in the least a cop would lie in front of the judge. Fortunately, the vast majority of the officers I know wouldn't do that...

[Bkcloud114]

Receive a "moving violation" in NYC.... plead guilty or not guilty..... that's it...... nothing else.

Plead "guilty".... Pay the fine + surcharge- usually points on the license, only way to reduce points is a Driver's Safety Course.

Plead "Not Guilty"..... you stand up in front of an Administrative Law Judge, just you and the cop, unless you have a lawyer.... they are all over the place, like ambulance chasers. The cop tells his side of the story, you tell yours and the "judge" makes a determination.

A little word of advice if you ever drive thru NYC.... if ya get stopped and ticketed by a NYC Highway cop or any other cop using a Radar Gun... pay the fine and don't bother going to court to fight him, this is what they do every day and they are good at what they do. They would not be doing it if they did not have a high conviction rate. If ya get ticketed by any other "street" cop.... you've got a 50/50 shot of getting a "not guilty" verdict.

[CoventryCat86]

Oh oh, don't mess with a retired NYC Police officer (that would be BkCloud)

AND he is 100% right about trying to fight a speeding ticket if they have you dead to rights on radar or laser, you ARE NOT going to win. Your only chance is to hope that the States Attorney offers you a lower fine, if he/she does TAKE THE OFFER, DO NOT be beligerent and try to "have your day in court" because you will lose and probably wind up paying more because you ticked them off for wasting their time

[Bkcloud114]

In my carreer I too have also come across some liars in my Department, the vast majority are good guys, but the few liars make it bad for everybody.....

Now when I say "liars" I am referring to out-right criminal behavior... I got some good stories for a HERF one day.... would make your jaw hit the floor.....

[CoventryCat86]

In my carreer I too have also come across some liars in my Department, the vast majority are good guys, but the few liars make it bad for everybody.....

Now when I say "liars" I am referring to out-right criminal behavior... I got some good stories for a HERF one day.... would make your jaw hit the floor.....

Oh man, I can only imagine

As you and George mentioned BC, like anything else in life, it's only a few who are the exception whereas most people in every line of work are honest and good workers.

[opie]

I

Best advice here is to avoid getting the traffic tickets to begin with. Contrary to popular belief, the general idea of receiving a ticket is not to generate income, but to correct poor driving behaviors. This is crucial for reducing the number and severity of crashes.

...

My state trooper friend told me that he has become a "profit center" for the state. Another friend got a ticket from jim and when she went to court the judge came out and said "if anyone is here with a ticket from anyone other than officer blank, they are in the wrong courtroom.
Jim tells me that he is required to go into a traffic flow and pick out a car to ticket, even though all the cars are running the same speed. He gets his butt put on the carpet if he doesn't keep his ticket level up.

In many states you can ask a judge to "plead guilty with a prayer for mercy". Most judges will grant this if you haven't had a lot of tickets. With this plea the case is deferred for a year, if you don't get another ticket it is dismissed after a year. You still pay the fine but get no points.

[cigarsarge]

My state trooper friend told me that he has become a "profit center" for the state. Another friend got a ticket from jim and when she went to court the judge came out and said "if anyone is here with a ticket from anyone other than officer blank, they are in the wrong courtroom.
Jim tells me that he is required to go into a traffic flow and pick out a car to ticket, even though all the cars are running the same speed. He gets his butt put on the carpet if he doesn't keep his ticket level up.

In many states you can ask a judge to "plead guilty with a prayer for mercy". Most judges will grant this if you haven't had a lot of tickets. With this plea the case is deferred for a year, if you don't get another ticket it is dismissed after a year. You still pay the fine but get no points.

Troopers in Tennessee set all their tickets for the same day each month. This keeps overtime down and Troppers on the street. Not unusual to see one Trooper have most of a Court Docket.

Going into a flow and picking out a car is not unusual. If the car is speeding what is the problem with stopping it. If the other drivers in the flow take notice and slow down so they don't get into a high speed crash the cop has done his job. Traffic enforcement is ment to be visable...So folks see what is going on and slow down. Quotas are good for cops dowin traffic enforcement. It keeps them working and insures public visiability.

You tell me what is wrong with a plea for mercy. It gets you to be aware of your speeding and hopefully slow down. Might even save your life or some one elses.

Either your "Trooper Friend" is non-existant or he totally missed out on his training at the academy. I choose to think he is non existant and you are a Troll. Either way you look like an idiot.

[opie]

[QUOTE=cigarsarge]
QUOTE]

He is a 24 year veteran of the Virginia State Police and has received about every award given bt VSP. His feeling is that he is out there to make the highways safer and KNOWS that speed is not the big problem out there.
If traffic is flowing at 65 mph a person driving 50 is driving recklessly.

[cigarsarge]

[QUOTE=opie]

QUOTE]

He is a 24 year veteran of the Virginia State Police and has received about every award given bt VSP. His feeling is that he is out there to make the highways safer and KNOWS that speed is not the big problem out there.
If traffic is flowing at 65 mph a person driving 50 is driving recklessly.

Enlighten us on the real problem. What does he think is the problem? Any cop on the road KNOWS speed is a REAL problem. DUI is a real problem. Lots of speeders are DUI. You are full of crap.

[Baron Porthos]

CigarSarge gets my vote.

[cigarsarge]

CigarSarge gets my vote.

Thank You

[opie]

[QUOTE=cigarsarge]

Enlighten us on the real problem. What does he think is the problem? Any cop on the road KNOWS speed is a REAL problem. DUI is a real problem. Lots of speeders are DUI. You are full of crap.

As you said, drunk driving is the major problem with talkin on cell phones running a close second.
When is the LAST time that you saw an accident caused strictly by speed, where alcohol or other outside influences were not a factor??? Of all accidents that you have seen, what percentage could be put into that category (speed with no other influence)??

I have been a high speed driver for over 50 years and the only accident that I have had is being hit in the rear end by an idiot talking on a cell phone!

[ggiese]

[QUOTE=opie]

As you said, drunk driving is the major problem with talkin on cell phones running a close second.
When is the LAST time that you saw an accident caused strictly by speed, where alcohol or other outside influences were not a factor??? Of all accidents that you have seen, what percentage could be put into that category (speed with no other influence)??

I have been a high speed driver for over 50 years and the only accident that I have had is being hit in the rear end by an idiot talking on a cell phone!

What I find interesting is people arguing their cause based upon their own experience and understanding of the world. This seems to be especially true when they don't study accidents for a living. I see more armchair cops and accident experts than just about anything else.

I have seen quite a few accidents that were the direct result of speed alone (of course, I do accident reconstruction and it wouldn't be fair to include me in your argument). Every time you have someone who loses control due to conditions (fog, rain, snow, etc.), that is the DIRECT result of speed. Further, everytime you have someone overdriving a curve (sideslipping) is the DIRECT result of speed.

Speed (velocity) also creates predictable amounts energy in a given circumstance. This is the primary reason for engineering roadways for certain speed limits. You notice residential side streets are engineered differently than interstate highways no doubt (crash barrels, jersey barriers, chainlink fencing, etc.). That would be the reason for it...

Also, speed has a VERY significant part in the severity of the crash. And it's not just that the faster you go, the worst the crash is. The reality is the faster you go, the EXPONENTIALLY worse the crash is. In other words, crash forces act in an exponential way with the increase in velocity.

You also might want to consider how speed affects time and distance in a crash sequence. Many times speed alone creates a situation where a crash is going to occur under the right set of circumstances. If someone is traveling 50 feet per second, for example (about 30 miles per hour), they are capable of making a stop in a certain distance given the friction of the road surface. Increase that velocity to 100 feet per second (roughly 70 mph) and that all changes - stopping distances, perception/reaction distances, etc. A guy driving around with a cell phone to his ear, shaving in the car, reading the newspaper, driving under the influence, etc. adds precious time to the perception/reaction sequence. If you add increased speed to that, the likelihood of an accident increases dramatically.

As far as speed enfocement - it is a very necessary part of the law enforcement function. Not because the law enforcement agency needs to generate revenue - that's a senseless argument. Law enforcement needs to protect society from high speed drivers who think they are safe when driving at high speeds - especially given the arguments I've made above. If you don't believe me - let me put you into a test car and have someone stike that car at 25 MPH. Then we'll repeat the exercise at 35 MPH. You'll definitely feel the difference that 10 mph makes.

Bottom line - speed does cause accidents and speed does make the crash far worse than it would have been if it were not a component of the crash event.

Also, the excuse that I've been a high speed driver for the last 50 years and not been involved in an accident is the weakest part of your argument. That's just like saying I haven't won the lottery in 50 years, so my number is going to come up next. Bottom line - if you have driving behaviors that are contrary to what you SHOULD be doing, it's just a matter of time before the crash will involve you!!!

BTW - just a piece of advice - I wouldn't be publically posting your excessive speed driving habits. If, God forbid, you are involved in an accident where you are the primary cause or a contributing factor in the crash and speed was an issue - those words will come back to haunt you in a deposition... You'll dearly pay for them - believe me...

[Neuromancer]

I live in south Florida where we get to play "the good-ole-boy" game...you get a ticket...you give it to an attorney...you pay the attorney about $75...he goes to court and gets the ticket dismissed...you pay the court costs...depending on the ticket abouot $125 to $200 for speeding, stop signs, turns and the like...dunno if they'd be so lenient with DUI/DWI...anyway, no muss, no fuss, no points, no raised insurance rates...everyone makes out...the courts/system makes their money, the attornies make their money (don't forget that judges usta be attornies )...everyone makes out...you're out a few c-notes but wotthehell, no muss, no fuss...