I May be Young But...

[mithril]

superman- congrats in advance for the child.

i thought the members here were great when i joined. and sure we can be a little rough to new commers but i look at it more a hazing ritual or rite of passage. it usually ends soon enough.

[kevin7]

Nobody is going to pet and coddle you when you join ANY cigar related board. I am old compared to some of you but I am young to some of the old farts I smoke with.

What actually gets under my skin is a newbie asking a bunch of dumass questions with out even looking at previous threads and keeps asking repeated dumass questions. Also most people do not appreciate others waving their degrees around like it is some kind of big deal . Some of us are blue collar and don't really give a shit if you are a lawyer or doctor or whatever . Me ? I'm a blue collar redneck Journeyman Electrical Lineman so keep that in mind for future reference.

One bad thing about being young is that you boys seem to have a thin skin for the most part but ya all smoke cigars so thats cool by me. :)

[superman78]

I havent noticed anyone shunning younger members on this particular board, although I definately have noticed a chill toward new members on other boards. Im also active on non cigar boards...ie. homebrewing and BBQ and, please no one take this the wrong way but, cigar smokers arent the most receptive people toward noobies. I really dont think age has anything to do with it, nor does ones personal knowledge of cigars. Rather, members take a cautious approach toward new members regardless of age or knowledge.

If you think you are getting treated rough here because of your age wait until you begin practice. I dont look 33 now and began practicing law at the age of 29. People come in, are being billed $200 an hour and they are looking at someone who reminds them of their kid. They automatically make judgments and some really give you a hard time.

I love it when an older attorney refrences a case or says I graduated law school in 1972...I just smile and say.. "I was born in 72" That to me is payback enough.

As the CT Supreme Court Justice stated in his keynote address at our graduation, "Law school in no way prepares you to be a lawyer...it just teaches you how to take land from Indians."

BTW my wife is from Cape Breton

i'm taking a guess when he talks about cold shoulder hes referring to people like cc,when i first came here he came off a little irritating,then as i've been here longer i realize hes not like he seems at first hes always there with advice and completely approachable.

[ggiese]

I suppose the reason a lot of newbs get crap from the older members has to do with asking the same questions over and over, rather than re-reading some of the older threads where the question has already been asked and answered. I think as you spend more time on the boards this will become more obvious. And it's not like you don't want to help the new person - it's more like "not again, do I have to explain this for the umpteenth time!!!"

The cigar shop I go to is an eclectic mix of older and younger cigar smokers - wealthy and poor - of just about every conceivable race. We even have a couple in the store that take offense to woman sitting in with us, because they don't think it's proper. But through it all, all of us meet and chat - smoke cigars and swap stories (even the woman join us from time to time). We ultimately enjoy each others company and our shared passion for the leaf.

As for me - I don't consider myself old, but I'm definitely not young either. I have been in my profession for over 25 years, which gives me a bit of an edge with the younger pups. I do not being told I'm a "dinosaur" because I don't subscribe to their youthful ignorance. Many times they come in with the brand new, fantastic idea - which I know has been tried and failed... And they won't be convinced it can't work...

I don't mean to insult you, but this statement does bother me...

I love it when an older attorney refrences a case or says I graduated law school in 1972...I just smile and say.. "I was born in 72" That to me is payback enough.

This is the attitude I get from a lot of the younger guys I work with. They think because they have been taught the latest and greatest, they now have the world by the tail, and they are going to run laps around their senior peers... Funny, the second quote in your post is exactly what you should be understanding...

As the CT Supreme Court Justice stated in his keynote address at our graduation, "Law school in no way prepares you to be a lawyer...it just teaches you how to take land from Indians."

My reading of that quote is this. Any kind of schooling, I don't care what it is (law school, medical school, car repair school, whatever) gives you the tools you need to perform the job that's ahead of you. But in order for you to skillfully use those tools, it requires practice. You cannot get experience by going to school - it is only acquired with time. In law school, you learned how to take the land away from the indians. To become a lawyer, you must take the knowledge you gained and apply it - over and over again - until it becomes second nature. I studied Differential Equations - give me a test in it now, even though I was successful in the class not that long ago, and I would fail it miserably. I've not applied or used it since I learned it...

I am an instructor for a large university, teaching the skills I've learned and practiced in Accident Reconstruction to others. I get a certain amount of satisfaction from seeing the bright, smiling faces on the first day of class, believing they are the best of the best - have already investigated accidents and can't understand why I would need several weeks to teach them any more about it... And I know that I'm about to totally brutalize them over the next several of weeks I'm with them with the math and science I'm about to teach. About 1/4 of them will not pass the class (it is VERY rare that we pass the entire class). But what's even more amusing to me is the math and science they will learn will be the easy part - the art of applying it is what the students will find the most challenging, which comes AFTER they leave the classroom.

So what does that have to do with cigars... Well - I've been on a path and learned what I've learned - some from personal experiences, some from reading about it, some from knowledge passed on from others. But the one thing that I keep in mind - no matter where I'm at - I never lose the idea that there isn't something more that I CAN learn.

To those of you who take offense with the FOG (Fucking Old Guys) taking pot shots at you - look at it as the gentle prodding you may need to get your ass in gear and study up. I can't possibly answer every question you may have (like "what cigars should I buy") Many times it's not what I'm going to tell you that matter most - it's what you LEARN from your experiences...

[pierce652]

I suppose the reason a lot of newbs get crap from the older members has to do with asking the same questions over and over, rather than re-reading some of the older threads where the question has already been asked and answered. I think as you spend more time on the boards this will become more obvious. And it's not like you don't want to help the new person - it's more like "not again, do I have to explain this for the umpteenth time!!!"

The cigar shop I go to is an eclectic mix of older and younger cigar smokers - wealthy and poor - of just about every conceivable race. We even have a couple in the store that take offense to woman sitting in with us, because they don't think it's proper. But through it all, all of us meet and chat - smoke cigars and swap stories (even the woman join us from time to time). We ultimately enjoy each others company and our shared passion for the leaf.

As for me - I don't consider myself old, but I'm definitely not young either. I have been in my profession for over 25 years, which gives me a bit of an edge with the younger pups. I do not being told I'm a "dinosaur" because I don't subscribe to their youthful ignorance. Many times they come in with the brand new, fantastic idea - which I know has been tried and failed... And they won't be convinced it can't work...

I don't mean to insult you, but this statement does bother me...



This is the attitude I get from a lot of the younger guys I work with. They think because they have been taught the latest and greatest, they now have the world by the tail, and they are going to run laps around their senior peers... Funny, the second quote in your post is exactly what you should be understanding...



My reading of that quote is this. Any kind of schooling, I don't care what it is (law school, medical school, car repair school, whatever) gives you the tools you need to perform the job that's ahead of you. But in order for you to skillfully use those tools, it requires practice. You cannot get experience by going to school - it is only acquired with time. In law school, you learned how to take the land away from the indians. To become a lawyer, you must take the knowledge you gained and apply it - over and over again - until it becomes second nature. I studied Differential Equations - give me a test in it now, even though I was successful in the class not that long ago, and I would fail it miserably. I've not applied or used it since I learned it...

I am an instructor for a large university, teaching the skills I've learned and practiced in Accident Reconstruction to others. I get a certain amount of satisfaction from seeing the bright, smiling faces on the first day of class, believing they are the best of the best - have already investigated accidents and can't understand why I would need several weeks to teach them any more about it... And I know that I'm about to totally brutalize them over the next several of weeks I'm with them with the math and science I'm about to teach. About 1/4 of them will not pass the class (it is VERY rare that we pass the entire class). But what's even more amusing to me is the math and science they will learn will be the easy part - the art of applying it is what the students will find the most challenging, which comes AFTER they leave the classroom.

So what does that have to do with cigars... Well - I've been on a path and learned what I've learned - some from personal experiences, some from reading about it, some from knowledge passed on from others. But the one thing that I keep in mind - no matter where I'm at - I never lose the idea that there isn't something more that I CAN learn.

To those of you who take offense with the FOG (Fucking Old Guys) taking pot shots at you - look at it as the gentle prodding you may need to get your ass in gear and study up. I can't possibly answer every question you may have (like "what cigars should I buy") Many times it's not what I'm going to tell you that matter most - it's what you LEARN from your experiences...

Your observations are dead on and I take no offense to you pointing out "what bothers you." Perhaps typing a conversation makes it difficult to put into context what is said and how it is said. By saying I was born in 72 doesnt make me better in any way, shape or form. They call me a young pup and tell me how easy I have it as they pontificate about old battles...the age thing is a zing back...its meant in banter. Sorry if it was misunderstood.

While in other professions you may learn the latest craze in school law isnt one of them. There is no "latest or greatest" in law school. The vast majority of the cases I studied are the same ones the old partners in my firm read. Even the bar exam doesnt test on laws that have been around less than 15 years. However, I do understand your point and young lawyers who do think they know it all are usually brought down a few pegs pretty quickly.

Your assessment of the second comment, the land from indians is exactly right. It is what the speaker was trying to get across and what I was trying to get across. I work with 5 other attorneys, I pick their brains and learn tricks and techniques everyday. They call it practice because we learn through experience, those who have been at it longer have more experience and something to teach.

As far as CC goes...hes been great. Ive asked him questions and he's always given me constructive answers. Never been anything but nice to me. Actually everyone here has been extremely helpful. I just make it a point to search before posting.

[ggiese]

Your observations are dead on and I take no offense to you pointing out "what bothers you." Perhaps typing a conversation makes it difficult to put into context what is said and how it is said. By saying I was born in 72 doesnt make me better in any way, shape or form. They call me a young pup and tell me how easy I have it as they pontificate about old battles...the age thing is a zing back...its meant in banter. Sorry if it was misunderstood.

While in other professions you may learn the latest craze in school law isnt one of them. There is no "latest or greatest" in law school. The vast majority of the cases I studied are the same ones the old partners in my firm read. Even the bar exam doesnt test on laws that have been around less than 15 years. However, I do understand your point and young lawyers who do think they know it all are usually brought down a few pegs pretty quickly.

Your assessment of the second comment, the land from indians is exactly right. It is what the speaker was trying to get across and what I was trying to get across. I work with 5 other attorneys, I pick their brains and learn tricks and techniques everyday. They call it practice because we learn through experience, those who have been at it longer have more experience and something to teach.

As far as CC goes...hes been great. Ive asked him questions and he's always given me constructive answers. Never been anything but nice to me. Actually everyone here has been extremely helpful. I just make it a point to search before posting.

Unfortunately, your '72 quote is something I hear quite often - and with utter disdain when it's spoken. I honestly think that the persons who say it are as ignorant as they get... We just had a young pup finish up accident reconstruction school, and came back with all his new found knowledge. He honestly thought he was equal in skills to me. Slowly but surely, I believe, he's learning it's not quite that easy. Unfortunately, he's a very linear thinker and I don't think he's fully made the connection yet... It's a damn shame, because he's pretty intelligent, but too dazzled by his own brilliance...

[grand cru no 2]

I havent noticed anyone shunning younger members on this particular board, although I definately have noticed a chill toward new members on other boards. Im also active on non cigar boards...ie. homebrewing and BBQ and, please no one take this the wrong way but, cigar smokers arent the most receptive people toward noobies. I really dont think age has anything to do with it, nor does ones personal knowledge of cigars. Rather, members take a cautious approach toward new members regardless of age or knowledge.

If you think you are getting treated rough here because of your age wait until you begin practice. I dont look 33 now and began practicing law at the age of 29. People come in, are being billed $200 an hour and they are looking at someone who reminds them of their kid. They automatically make judgments and some really give you a hard time.

I love it when an older attorney refrences a case or says I graduated law school in 1972...I just smile and say.. "I was born in 72" That to me is payback enough.

As the CT Supreme Court Justice stated in his keynote address at our graduation, "Law school in no way prepares you to be a lawyer...it just teaches you how to take land from Indians."

BTW my wife is from Cape Breton

This is true. I was 19 when I was managing a cigar shop. I had people come in regularly and go "You're the manager?" It never bothered me though. George made a good point, experience comes with age, no matter how you slice it. True, I smoked alot of cigars and I had a knack for running a retail environment but that does not change the fact that over 70% of my customers knew more than I did about cigars!

Also, you must remember that cigar smokers are extremely passionate about their hobby and they closely guard it! If cigarette smokers shared our passion, we wouldn't have the insane anti-tobacco laws we have now. The truth is that if someone wants to share something you guard "sacred", they must prove they are worth entrusting it to. Most of us spend a significant amount of time in our respective cigar communities and we hold them sacred for that reason. We are not about to let ANYONE deteriorate them!

But what Kevin7 said is also true. Our generation is thin skinned. There are way too many of us (males especially) that are simply TOO SOFT! I used the term "males" instead of men because IMO, men are not cry babies or whiners, which is exactly what so many males of our generation are! Learn to roll with the punches or hide under the bed dammit!

I am now climbing off my soapbox.

[Baron Porthos]

I have a humidor full of JR Rey Del Rey. great big Maduros. I broke my leg in Mexico in February. Got fired from my job in May because I can't work. My wife kids and family love me. The only time you can tease women is when they are pregnant because you have a better chance of running out the door. I like flavorful cigars my friend likes mediums and my brother likes mild.
Cigars are a great way to kill time and enjoy the plants God has blessed us with, however that does not mean water was meant to be drunk un treated. The little Scottish folk have combined more of Gods blessings into single malt.
next time you want to vent take a bottle of OBAN and a Rey Del Rey then decide if whatever is bothering you can stand up through that combination if so then have more of the Oban.

[SuperChuck]

I guess I might be an old guy... A few weeks ago I was pulled over by a local cop for driving 10 (sorry, 12) mph over the limit. The kid did his very best to be intimidating, but it was just SO HARD to take him seriously. I couldn't help but think "Dude, I have underwear older than you"... :)

[cigarsarge]

It's a damn shame, because he's pretty intelligent, but too dazzled by his own brilliance...

I was once a brilliant young cop. Went to a school to be a crime scene tech. I was gonna solve crimes by my new found skill. I was put in my place by an older more experenced officer. New skills must be honed before they are any good. Experence is a good teacher.

I saw the movie Colors. Pretty crappy movie but a joke told to Shawn Penn by Robert Duval sums up the experence thing.

Pappa Bull and Baby Bull are standing on a hill looking at the cows grazing below.

Baby Bull says to Papa Bull..."Lets run down there and screw one of em."

Papa Bull says to Baby Bull..."Lets walk down and screw em all."

I make it a point to tell new officers this. sometimes it sinks in...Sometimes it don't.

[Island Epicurean]

Hey All;

Ok, first of all, I would like to clarify that this forum is probably the best out there when it comes to newbies and younger guys. (I am sure that some of you guys have answered the same questions 175 times and still been helpful!) Overall I was venting from experiences in the real world and other online forums.

Secondly, I hope no one took offense to myself or anyone else who mentioned their degrees. I am a company owner now, but I started out operating a "Crushing Plant" making road gravel so I would understand the process/industry better. Most of my best friends have "blue collar" jobs and on a whole, manuel working people are the best people out there.

As for the shock I am in for when I get out of School, I am already seeing that first hand. I am the youngest law student (out of 150 people) that I know about. The average second year age is between 26 and 27 and I am barely 22. I have already begun my work and have seen peoples impression of such a young studying lawyer. I am probably in for an interesting few years......

Finally for those interested, I would like to draw an inference between cigars and the practice of law. The persuit for knowledge of cigars is never ending, no one can say they know everything about cigars. In the same sence, no one can say they know everything about the law. Lawyers who have been practising for 25+ years still ask other lawyer questions and do very heavy research. The same is true of experienced cigar smokers. Both young and old, more often the young though, have to turn to others for advice.

Anyway, thanks for this great insight everyone! This has definitly been a great/informative post for me.

[cigar no baka]

Another quote I heard from folks older than me a lot when I was younger:

"Bet on age and treachery over youth and inexperience any day."

Nuff said!!

[SpudPeeWee]

u r so old. 22!!!!! better start saving for ur coffin.

[CoventryCat86]

Hey All;

Ok, first of all, I would like to clarify that this forum is probably the best out there when it comes to newbies and younger guys. (I am sure that some of you guys have answered the same questions 175 times and still been helpful!) Overall I was venting from experiences in the real world and other online forums.

Secondly, I hope no one took offense to myself or anyone else who mentioned their degrees. I am a company owner now, but I started out operating a "Crushing Plant" making road gravel so I would understand the process/industry better. Most of my best friends have "blue collar" jobs and on a whole, manuel working people are the best people out there.

As for the shock I am in for when I get out of School, I am already seeing that first hand. I am the youngest law student (out of 150 people) that I know about. The average second year age is between 26 and 27 and I am barely 22. I have already begun my work and have seen peoples impression of such a young studying lawyer. I am probably in for an interesting few years......

Finally for those interested, I would like to draw an inference between cigars and the practice of law. The persuit for knowledge of cigars is never ending, no one can say they know everything about cigars. In the same sence, no one can say they know everything about the law. Lawyers who have been practising for 25+ years still ask other lawyer questions and do very heavy research. The same is true of experienced cigar smokers. Both young and old, more often the young though, have to turn to others for advice.

Anyway, thanks for this great insight everyone! This has definitly been a great/informative post for me.

You make an unusually large amount of spelling and grammatical errors in your posts for someone who's getting ready to be a lawyer.

Now just because I've told you this once in the past, have you decided I'm on some sort of "superiority trip"? Maybe not, but my guess is that you have.

Well I found your first post in this thread to be completely ridiculous and downright offensive (and full of spelling errors too ). You started this thread saying this:

OK, there seems to be a lot of animosity going around here towards the younger guys...

Can you please site specific examples because maybe I must have missed something here because I see absolutely no "animosity" towards the younger guys. I see LOTS of "animosity" with respect to Scotty and he's 30. I see even MORE "animosity" towards RealPuroBrat and he's 40 something. I see people gettting a smack down when they deserve it and it has nothing to do with their age. In your case, the smack down I just gave isn't because you're 22 but because you made a pretty stupid statement.

My sense is that your insecurity (telling us on numerous occasions about your degree, your cigar collection and whatever ) results in your defensive attitude (all the other crap you mentioned in your first post).

Get over yourself and grow some skin, you're going to need it.

[MMAB]

Did you guys notice how I totally stayed out of this one? Well...until now anyway.