the hero is the gun...

**cigarsarge** · 11-07-2005, 12:22 PM

I think I've said it once and I'll say it again...The real problem with marijuana is the black market aspect. It is sold in most crack houses houses I have been to. It's sold where extacy is sold in the upper middle class young adult hangouts. It's sold in your next door neighbors house.

People die just because they are trying to smuggle it to you...Not because they want to do you a favor. They die because of the MONEY they are after. They don't give a crap about you.

IMHO it is morally wrong to participate in an activity that is so closely related to violence and funding organized crime. There are children out there that have no mother or father because they have been killed or incarcerated due to the sale of marijuana and other drugs. There are high level dealers that are rich from someone elses misery. I have witnessed this first hand.

Until society changes it's rules this organized crime will have it's finger in the pie. Should marijuana be legalized? I don't know. Why allow free access to another mind altering substance? On the other hand I like to take a drink from time to time. That definately can alter the mind.

By the way...There is no difference in hanging in a vacant building smoking dope and hanging in a vacant drinking cheap whiskey. People that do that are up to no good. The results are generally the same.

**Drake** · 11-07-2005, 12:42 PM

i definitely see what you're saying. i'm not argueing that what i do is 'right.' there's a lot of ways this can go. i could say its the government that is keeping the black market for pot going. but them someone could say, "well, then why don't we legalize all drugs." which is not a good idea. california grows a lot of organic pot for medical purposes. if pot was decriminalized; this could be done everywhere and it could be controlled. the lowlifes that kill people for drug money would still being killing people for money if there were no drugs. people trying to make an easy dishonest buck will always be there.

what you said could easily be said about cuban cigars, though. according the law, we're supporting communism. we can't see what goes on in cuba just as i don't see as well as you do what goes on in the streets pertaining to drug use.

reaganyouth84 · 11-07-2005, 12:51 PM

I agree with sarge. I love alcohol, I won't lie, am I an alcoholic? No, but I just enjoy the finer things in life. In my opinion, marijuana should not be legalized. I've heard every side of the debate, and usually the most common one is, "Well, alcohol is legal, it alters the mind, and it harms people other than the person drinking it." This is true, and I agree, but here is the thing...just because the government says you can do it, doesn't mean its right or safe. I think we all know our government has been wrong PLEANTY of times.

I live in one of the most drug infested places in TN. Pot is the way people get in, then it just advances from there, they have to have something more potent to get their fix. I don't believe alcohol is that way. I had a friend pass away a couple of years ago. Him and a few friends were at his house partying. Well, my friend got choked on his vomit and suffocated. The other kids sat there and watched him die instead of calling the cops or an ambulance because they were stoned. Its just a bad bad deal. Like I said though, just because the government says its ok doesn't make it right.

-Mike

**Drake** · 11-07-2005, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by reaganyouth84

I agree with sarge. I love alcohol, I won't lie, am I an alcoholic? No, but I just enjoy the finer things in life. In my opinion, marijuana should not be legalized. I've heard every side of the debate, and usually the most common one is, "Well, alcohol is legal, it alters the mind, and it harms people other than the person drinking it." This is true, and I agree, but here is the thing...just because the government says you can do it, doesn't mean its right or safe. I think we all know our government has been wrong PLEANTY of times.

I live in one of the most drug infested places in TN. Pot is the way people get in, then it just advances from there, they have to have something more potent to get their fix. I don't believe alcohol is that way. I had a friend pass away a couple of years ago. Him and a few friends were at his house partying. Well, my friend got choked on his vomit and suffocated. The other kids sat there and watched him die instead of calling the cops or an ambulance because they were stoned. Its just a bad bad deal. Like I said though, just because the government says its ok doesn't make it right.

-Mike

if you think alcohol is 'one of the finer things in life,' then maybe you are an alcoholic. (i'm not pointing a finger at you calling you an alcoholic, just making a point) i think my family, friends, loved ones ARE THE finer things in life.then comes music and sex. but i also enjoy alcohol and smoking pot and cigars. just because the government says something is wrong, doesn't make it wrong either. (not referring to pot laws, just other things in general) if someone watched their friend die, it wasn't because he was high on marijuana. it was because he was on one or more other things, or he didn't give a shit.

reaganyouth84 · 11-07-2005, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Drake

if you think alcohol is 'one of the finer things in life,' then maybe you are an alcoholic. (i'm not pointing a finger at you calling you an alcoholic, just making a point) i think my family, friends, loved ones ARE THE finer things in life.then comes music and sex. but i also enjoy alcohol and smoking pot and cigars. just because the government says something is wrong, doesn't make it wrong either. (not referring to pot laws, just other things in general) if someone watched their friend die, it wasn't because he was high on marijuana. it was because he was on one or more other things, or he didn't give a shit.

You are fine Drake, I don't think you are calling me an alcoholic, but I do enjoy my booze. This subject is just a slippery slope. My political science professor jokes around all the time that if you gave him 4 hours alone in his office he could "fix" the world's problems. Then once all of his plans went into effect, he would screw up 80% of everything just because what looks good on paper doesn't always work. I think this is one of those things that I would screw up for sure.

I think sex could be considered a drug. It is very addictive activity, and, not to sound all weird or anything, but when you have an orgasim, there is a small dose of "natural" morphine that is shot into your blood stream. Any thoughts or ideas on this one?

-Mike

**cigar no baka** · 11-07-2005, 01:05 PM

The ongoing war on drugs has amazing similarities with Prohibition with one glaring exception: we decided to end prohibition. Prohibition had several major effects:

An increase in lack of respect for the law and the government.
A huge increase in criminal activity, and all the things that come with it, ie. violence
An upswing in corruption at all levels of society, especially in the government.
A concentration of money in the hands of some very corrupt, powerful and dangerous people.
A huge number of citizens ending up in jail for alcohol consumption and/or distribution.

And surprisingly, it did not result in reducing alcohol consumption by much. Illegal activity sprang up all across America and continued in back alleys, hidden locations and even peoples bathtubs for the entire 13 years of Prohibition.

And today, we have all of those things with the war on drugs. We are not winning the war on drugs, it costs our society all of the above and more. I'm for legalization of consumption, but war on distribution of all drugs except marijuana, but I'm fully aware that even that cutback in this War will still have large, detrimental effects on our society, but perhaps less than the full legalization of all drugs. And I support the legalization of marijuana, it is too pervasive, we need to concentrate our efforts. And stop locking people up for using.

Every time a society tries to criminalize behavior that a large portion of their society wants to engage in, look out, cause it's going to be a huge destabilizing influence.

**SuperChuck** · 11-07-2005, 01:33 PM

One of my favorite towns on this planet is Amsterdam. Most soft drugs have be decriminalized in the city of Amsterdam (they are technically illegal, but this is largely overlooked by local authorities). Prositution is legal in Amsterdam. Beer is the same price as soft drinks and available everywhere (movie theaters, falafel shops, etc.).

This has developed Amsterdam into the most lax community I've ever seen. Live and let live. If you want to smoke dope, go ahead. If you want to have a beer with your lunch, go ahead. As long as you're not harming someone else, they could care less.

This has led to the most amazing views on sexuality I've ever seen. Sexual orientation in Amsterdam is just a facet of who you are. It's no more important than, say, the color of your hair. I found this interesting in stark contrast to places we view as "gay friendly" in the United States, where sexuality tends to define people.

I remember sitting outside the supperclub, smoking a joint with the two gay bouncers... Ah, only in Amsterdam.

**Drake** · 11-07-2005, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by SuperChuck

One of my favorite towns on this planet is Amsterdam. Most soft drugs have be decriminalized in the city of Amsterdam (they are technically illegal, but this is largely overlooked by local authorities). Prositution is legal in Amsterdam. Beer is the same price as soft drinks and available everywhere (movie theaters, falafel shops, etc.).

This has developed Amsterdam into the most lax community I've ever seen. Live and let live. If you want to smoke dope, go ahead. If you want to have a beer with your lunch, go ahead. As long as you're not harming someone else, they could care less.

This has led to the most amazing views on sexuality I've ever seen. Sexual orientation in Amsterdam is just a facet of who you are. It's no more important than, say, the color of your hair. I found this interesting in stark contrast to places we view as "gay friendly" in the United States, where sexuality tends to define people.

I remember sitting outside the supperclub, smoking a joint with the two gay bouncers... Ah, only in Amsterdam.

i've never had any desire to visit that place