No question where the righties want to take America

[Bkcloud114]

I found DVM's Homepage.... see if you can

Click the smiley

[ggiese]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

[Shelby07]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

Man, you ain't kiddin'! I am certainly not a bible thumper either, in fact I have a sign on my front door that says "No Soliciting -especially bible thumpers!"

BUT, does anyone remember what the first amendment actually says? For those of you who don't here it is...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

So there it is. Read it and decide for yourself what it says. Don't take some politician's or radio talk show host's word for what it says. Read it and study the other documents that this country was founded on and decide for yourself. In my opinion, the key phrase here is "shall make no law." It says nothing about having the power to make any law. In fact, the way that I remember the lectures about "separation of church and state" a long, long, long time ago (by the way, that overused phrase is nowhere to be found in any of the founding documents) is that the Government has no power to meddle in religious affairs whatsoever. If you read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers or any other document referring to the formation and responsibility of our Government, you will find the overriding theme is that the Government has limited powers, not sweeping or absolute powers. Our founding fathers wanted the gov't to keep their noses out of our business. Period.

So, any time I hear that something is "unconstitutional," I wonder where in the constitution the government is given the power to make that decision. The constitution deliberately attempts to limit the power of the Federal Government. It actually doesn't give any power whatsoever, except for the protection of the people.

Yet, 200+ years later the government has its fingers in everything in a supposed effort to protect us from ourselves. They take about 1/2 of my earnings in a multitude of various taxes and spend it on who knows what, tell me what I can and can't say, and generally are a pain in my pink puckered posterior. It is the biggest reason I can't align myself with the dems. I believe that our gov't needs to have its power limited, not expanded. Sure, the Republican party is filled with a bunch of idiots, just like the dems, but I try to align myself with a platform and a philosophy, not a person. And I do vote democratic if I believe in the person, but most democrats seem to be for increasing taxes, telling me what I should and shouldn't "feel," telling me what is right or wrong and what I should love and hate in the name of good (religion?), and limiting my freedoms in one way or another. Just goes to show the power of the "law." Society doesn't change the laws, law changes society. That is exactly why our government was founded on limited law. But we are no longer a country of justice, we are a country of laws. The principles that our government and society were based on are constantly under attack by professional politicians. And in my opinion, the founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

Too bad.

[SmokinDVM]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

The problem is, the republican party has been loaded up with far right bible thumpers, especially those in leadership positions. The old republican party is really gone, and it still drags around many old members who's beliefs are not being represented by the party anymore, and for some odd reason they can't bring themselves to admit it. So, they continue to enable the whackos to consolidate power.

Prayers can be said in school...as long as it's a private school. Public school prayer, directed or endorsed by school employees, is never a good thing. A moment of silence/reflection to do what you want, silently, is fine and legal. Say a prayer, pick your ass, whatever.
And christmas...I see public displays of it everywhere, and I live in a pretty liberal area. There's no attack on christmas, easter, or any other stolen holidays. You need to stop listening to those assholes O'Rielly and Hannity.
And the Boy Scouts, well at least they can still keep out the gays.

Put a 200'cross outside your church, I don't care. Deface a National Monument with symbols of ignorance, I get a little upset. Could ya tell?

[nhcigarfan]

Its Good!

[bigpoppapuff]

thanks for the link,tommy...i not only registered...i also donated to the site....



and if you think shrub is a religious zealot (he IS)....wait 'til you see mutt romney..

[WhiteWidow]

Its Good!

That is awesome. Has anyone ever heard of Kenneth Copeland? That guy is my favorite. For some reason he needs a seven-chimney guarded estate on Eagle Mountain Lake to spread his message.

[SuperChuck]

Just to kick a dead horse.. :)

I just kind of skimmed through posts, so I may have missed a couple things... But something that did strike me as interesting was the comparison of Christians to Muslims. And the first thing that came to mind was:

In the west, the muslim faith is defined by a few radicals.
Christianity (and the repubs these days) is defined by a few radicals.

Islam is probably the most beautiful faith in the world, but a very few make it look like bad.

Similarly, these clowns go and build a statue of liberty bastardization and everyone seems to think they represent Christianity or the GOP or both. Really, it only represents these few clowns. I can't imagine my parents' church erecting something like that on the front lawn.

While I'm kicking... How much of this whole "Christian values in gov't" thing is based on a fear of the inevitable legalization of gay marriage? I think there's some fear of what the future landscape of the nation will be with legalized gay marriage, so we've reverted to some romantic ideal of Christianity... Just thinking out loud...

[WhiteWidow]

I don't think it has anything to do with gay marriage, so much as it has to do with the fact that old people vote more than anyone else.

[SuperChuck]

I don't think it has anything to do with gay marriage, so much as it has to do with the fact that old people vote more than anyone else.

But we didn't see this sentiment ten years ago...

[cigar no baka]

it's in the proper forum...if you don't want to debate "politics"...stay on the "cigar" forum....politics can and should be discussed in this forum...i see nothing wrong with it....


and btw...shrub is the worst president of my lifetime!!...

I think you are wrong, see Hex's words below and re-think your position.

I would be very very careful making statements like this in public, its way too easy to misinterpret something like that in today’s political climate. I set up the Politics forum to deal with political issues related to Cigarsmokers.com. While I usually turn the other way when discussions turn to world issues, this really isn’t the place to discuss these types of matters. Cigarsmokers.com is a community meant to build camaraderie between fellow BOTL. Topics of politics and religion just cause more problems then they are worth discussing here.

I'm not going to go and flat out ban these types of discussion unless they become a major problem. But I do ask that you use your judgment when making these posts. Ask yourself "How will this topic help us grow stronger as a community of Cigar Smokers?". Think before you post.

[bigpoppapuff]

i will not re-think my position...it's politics and is in the proper forum....

[WhiteWidow]

I'm with bpp, as long as it is in the correct forum I feel it has its place.

I may be the only one that thinks this way, but I see this site as sort of smoke lounge itself. As such, I think anything we would discuss were we actually sitting around and smoking together is more than appropriate here. But once again, as long as its posted in the correct place.

Also, if everything has to be strictly cigar related, we need to get rid of the sports and gadgets forums.

[nhcigarfan]

.

Also, if everything has to be strictly cigar related, we need to get rid of the sports and gadgets forums.

Good point.

[bigpoppapuff]

and....baka....not for nothing,but,you're the one with a political statement in your sub-handle......just pointing it out...

[SmokinDVM]

Wasn't someone complaining about a certain political sig I was using? Now who could that have been?

[WOXOF]

This is the most disgusting thing I've seen in a long time.
I know what you’re thinking, it’s photoshopped. That’s what I thought at first, but this abomination is real. It’s a 72 foot tall statue that was just unveiled on July 4th at a megachurch called the World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church in Memphis, Tennessee.

BTW, the second commandment from exodus 20:4 kjv – “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image…”

Apparently, like so many other things in the bible, that commandment doesn’t apply to repugs.

I usually stay away from the politics threads because that's not why I come to this board. This one hit close to home. I've seen the statue at the church. It's less than 5 miles from where I grew up. SmokinDVM, I think you should do a little more research before you attempt to stir shit once again in the politics forum. I have no problem with anyones view of politics or religion no matter how different they are of mine, but this post and topic are total bullshit. I may be stereotyping just a little here, but based on the demographics of the World Overcomers church, I highly doubt there are more than a handfull of republicans who attend there. No, I haven't seen the voting records for the membership, but I've lived in this community all my life and know that the statue is not the work of evil republicans.

For anybody wanting to make a pilgrimage to the great evil "repug" statue to decide for yourself, let me know. We'll have some BBQ and a smoke.

[bigpoppapuff]

i find your post on the subject and the statue to be in poor taste...stick your bbq up your ass while you stare at the statue......barry has every right to speak on a topic....

the statue is disgusting and i'd want nothing to do with anyone connected to the church...or anyone that approves of it....

[WhiteWidow]

i find your post on the subject and the statue to be in poor taste...stick your bbq up your ass while you stare at the statue......barry has every right to speak on a topic....

the statue is disgusting and i'd want nothing to do with anyone connected to the church...or anyone that approves of it....

I think he is just trying to attack DVM's original point that this church and republicans are one in the same. I don't think he is necessarily endorsing either.

[heftysmokes]

I think he is just trying to attack DVM's original point that this church and republicans are one in the same. I don't think he is necessarily endorsing either.

Holy crap, I agree with WW!